And America Continues to Show it's True Colors. . .

[jvcarroll]

Fair enough then.

Well, if you want to know the truth, I did vote for Trump because honestly 2016 was not the year for me. I dealt with alot of stress with college and all the political cancer going on my facebook news feed drove me insane. I honestly was actually gonna go for Bernie Sanders until I found out he pretty much bailed. I never trusted Hillary and sadly, at that time, was in an extreme conservative phase because I felt like people were just too overly sensitive about everything and was oblivous to the fact that conservatives just as well are overly sensitive when, oh, say, you insult Jesus or whatever (and I've also dealt with people who say I HAVE to vote for Hillary just because she's a woman).

So case in point, my vote for Trump was my 2016 self just kind of doing it for "payback" and also because I was (and still am against) illegal immigration. Though now, I've learned Mr. Trump pretty much flip flops everything so I guess that's out of the question.

Frankly, if the elections happened this year, where I've started to fix myself again, I probably would have just not voted at all.

That "politically correct" garbage was, and still is, a shill used by dirty politicians to excuse blatant racism, sexism and homophobia.

How it works is this: Every single person on this earth has been accused of doing or saying something inappropriate. Sometimes these things are true. Sometimes they're not. And sometimes there's a gray line. Regardless, any person with empathy simply wouldn't say something with prejudice or insensitivity that would make someone else feel bad. When mistakes are made, a few overzealous social justice warriors will shame that person into silence instead of allowing them grace and a polite apology. They must be destroyed! That's actually a very rare sentiment, but we've all experienced it at one time or another. That, however, is used as a placeholder and excuse for people like Donald Trump to say the most horrible things about women and minorities. it's a GET OUT OF BEING SEEN AS A BIGOT FREE card for when someone intentionally says something horrible. We've seen what's happened to our culture because of that. There's this unapologetic rudeness that's not okay.

I know it's unpopular to say this and spawned a lot of angry arguments, but I told the conservative Christians in my life who were too close to see clearly in 2016:

Your moral choice this election year isn't between Trump and Hillary. It's between Trump and Jesus. You can vote for countless candidates, but if you trust in God, you cannot vote for this horrible man who's entire life has been in opposition for nearly everything Jesus taught.

I know that's harsh and I'm an agnostic, so I'm not beholden to the same standard. However, I still employ the same sort of integrity in how I live, the people I support and how I vote. It seems like a high standard. It is. And I fail a lot too. But I don't fail by going into anything with excuses. That's the difference right there.

I don't get why people would fluctuate between Bernie and Trump. That's just about the cult of personality and not of policy or integrity. I get why people didn't vote for Hillary. A lot of that is due to the 30 year campaign against her. Ultimately, she did not make a compelling enough case to win the Electoral College vote. It never should have been this close. Russian involvement, obvious collusion and other dirty deeds aside, her loss is completely on her.

That said, I don't care if a person is gay or straight, Christian or atheist, Republican or Democrat. We all make mistakes and every single moment is an opportunity for us to recognize that mistake, learn from it and make things better from that point on. That's a daily thing I try to do. It just seems that so many people are now holding onto their mistakes for fear of being "destroyed" by someone else for making them. We need to lend more grace and forgiveness to others. All of us.

 

[LittleJerry92]

The best way is to let people say Merry Christmas who want to and let people say Happy Holidays who want to.

That I can definitely agree on. Like I always say, let people live the life they want to live. Never felt happier not caring about what people do with their lives.

Also, regarding not voting at all, I get that from alot of people and if people feel that way, that's fine. They can think what they want. But this is also coming from someone who just isn't into talking about politics that much.

Literally, just thinking of what 2020 is going to be like makes me want to light a bowl.

 

[D'Snowth]

I know it's unpopular to say this and spawned a lot of angry arguments, but I told the conservative Christians in my life who were too close to see clearly in 2016:

Your moral choice this election year isn't between Trump and Hillary. It's between Trump and Jesus. You can vote for countless candidates, but if you trust in God, you cannot vote for this horrible man who's entire life has been in opposition for nearly everything Jesus taught.

The problem is there's a lot of really delusional conservative Christians out there who are actually, somehow, for some reason, convinced that Trump is not only God's "Chosen One" and that God personally elected him to Office, but that Trump is also somehow Jesus in the flesh returned to save our nation. How in the world they figure that is beyond me.

But, again, I find the problem with them is that they're too stuck in the Old Testament for whatever reason: they seem to completely disregard the current covanent we presently have with Jesus, and stick with the old covanent with God. I'm not saying the Old Testament is completely null and void, but we don't live in that period of time anymore, and haven't ever since Jesus was born, and the only way anybody can even get to God is through Jesus, so I have know idea what these conservative Christians are thinking when they somehow completely disregard Jesus altogether and seem to think they have one-on-one, face-to-face, personal access to God and His word. Like Sarah Palin saying that God told us to go to war with the Middle East because it was our patriotic, American duty to the world, or how Pat Robertson and all these crazy televangelists say that God will personally punish people who don't support Trump because he's the leader of our country. Uh-huh. If that's the case, then wouldn't God have punished them for not supporting Obama? He was the leader of our country for eight years, I never heard a peep about God punishing anybody who didn't support him. Oh yeah, that's right, I forgot: Obama was the Muslim son of Satan because of his middle name. That's what they say. But . . . if that's the case, then wouldn't Trump be Jewish because of his Hebrew middle name? But that's my first name, so I guess that means I'm Jewish.

Bottom line: Trump played the religious crowd just as he's played everyone else. He didn't even become a Christian (or so he says) till he ran for Office anyway; he says the Bible is his favorite book and that he reads it all the time, but when asked about Scripture, he's clueless and pivots.

Heck, it's sad that a lot of these people would actually take Trump's word over the freakin' Pope!

 

[jvcarroll]

The problem is there's a lot of really delusional conservative Christians out there who are actually, somehow, for some reason, convinced that Trump is not only God's "Chosen One" and that God personally elected him to Office, but that Trump is also somehow Jesus in the flesh returned to save our nation. How in the world they figure that is beyond me.

But, again, I find the problem with them is that they're too stuck in the Old Testament for whatever reason: they seem to completely disregard the current covanent we presently have with Jesus, and stick with the old covanent with God. I'm not saying the Old Testament is completely null and void, but we don't live in that period of time anymore, and haven't ever since Jesus was born, and the only way anybody can even get to God is through Jesus, so I have know idea what these conservative Christians are thinking when they somehow completely disregard Jesus altogether and seem to think they have one-on-one, face-to-face, personal access to God and His word. Like Sarah Palin saying that God told us to go to war with the Middle East because it was our patriotic, American duty to the world, or how Pat Robertson and all these crazy televangelists say that God will personally punish people who don't support Trump because he's the leader of our country. Uh-huh. If that's the case, then wouldn't God have punished them for not supporting Obama? He was the leader of our country for eight years, I never heard a peep about God punishing anybody who didn't support him. Oh yeah, that's right, I forgot: Obama was the Muslim son of Satan because of his middle name. That's what they say. But . . . if that's the case, then wouldn't Trump be Jewish because of his Hebrew middle name? But that's my first name, so I guess that means I'm Jewish.

Bottom line: Trump played the religious crowd just as he's played everyone else. He didn't even become a Christian (or so he says) till he ran for Office anyway; he says the Bible is his favorite book and that he reads it all the time, but when asked about Scripture, he's clueless and pivots.

Heck, it's sad that a lot of these people would actually take Trump's word over the freakin' Pope!

Precisely. Tony Perkins from the "Family" Research Council (AKA Let's try to make being LGBT in America a nightmare) said that natural disasters are God's way of punishing America for gay marriage etc. However, when he loses his home to a flood, it's God testing him. Me thinks God is whatever is convenient for their argument at the moment.

 

[D'Snowth]

If these people were really Christian, it seems to me they would know that God doesn't punish people out of spite.

 

[jvcarroll]

By the way, this is what makes today's Republicans so gross. Basically, the Governor of Alabama is saying what this title of this article is - I BELIEVE ROY MOORE MOLESTED AND ABUSED CHILDREN, BUT I’LL VOTE FOR HIM BECAUSE HE’S REPUBLICAN! While this is not my favorite news source, I've seen her statement when she made it live and this is the perfect headline for what she said. Too many Republicans are willing to vote for an immoral man in order for him to help support their idea of morality. Um, that just makes no sense.

 

[Oscarfan]

Speaks for itself:

They don't care. It's party over country.

 

[D'Snowth]

I'm pretty sure I brought this up several posts back. This is a major difference between Democrats and Republicans: Democrats won't tolerate anyone involved in morally inappropriate behavior regardless of their party affiliation; Republicans will as long as they're not Democrat.

And BTW, did you notice the first recommended story off to the side on that link from the latest daily indoctronation, I mean press briefing? That Sarah Suckabee Flanders says the reason why Trump sexual harassment allegations aren't the same as Franken's is because Trump hasn't admitted to anything? You literally have pointed this out multiple times in previous posts: he's on tape bragging about his sexcapades! In what twisted conservative illogical is that not an admission? Oh yeah, I keep forgetting, that's something else you already brought up many times before: "Oh, it's just locker room talk, and it's Trump, so it's okay."

 

[MuppetsRule]

Comparing this to people in the past like Kennedy and Bill Clinton isn't the same. Let's compare it to what's happening right now in both parties in 2017. The difference is when Franken is accused of kissing and a brief inappropriate touch, he immediately issues an apology, asks for an official review and says he'll cooperate fully. Every Democrat on my page instantly believes the woman and is disappointed in Franken. The same happens with George Takei (and I'm not even convinced of that shaky story from the alleged victim who used to tell it as a cocktail anecdote). Compare that to Trump or Moore. Trump admits to sexual abuse, and there are plenty of women who still claim he abused them, and his supporters laugh it off as some sort of locker room talk and behavior. Like he's some big jock. Eugh! Roy Moore is banned from shopping malls for harassing young girls back in the day, he's accused by half a dozen young women and under age girls of molestation and abuse, yet the Alabama GOP still supports him, Trump still supports him and Mitch McConnell took 5 friggin days to completely disavow him and to urge him to step down. No, it's not the same. Trump and Moore aren't just supported, they have enthusiastic support, particularly from conservative evangelicals. This is just gross. In this area, both parties are guilty of committing this act. Harassment knows no party. However, in dealing with this behavior in 2017, the parties couldn't be further apart. The Dems are clearly showing far more integrity. Actually, they're the only ones showing it. Waiting 5 days to completely disavow a pedophile is just friggin nutty and gross. There's no way anyone can spin that. But, again, the act itself is horrible, there's no excuse and it happens in both parties. If you are a Democrat in 2017, you will be held responsible for it. If you're a Republican in 2017, not so much.

I know you're going to find this hard to believe but I disagree with what you have to say here.

Do you really believe that all Al Franken did was a little kissing and some brief inappropriate touching? Seriously? First of all, it doesn't matter if it was brief or not. Second of all, it was much more than kissing and brief inappropriate touching. He groped her in front of a room of men and laughed as he posed for pictures doing it. You don't have a problem with that other than being "disappointed"? I somehow expected better than that from you. So he sexually assaulted her, but just briefly. Is that like being a little pregnant? Read her account again and then tell me it was just some kissing and a brief touch.

http://www.kabc.com/2017/11/16/leeann-tweeden-on-senator-al-franken/

Next, Al Franken seems to be given a pass here because, afterall, he apologized for it? He asked for a review and investigation? If we applied that same thing to President Trump, would it hold up? After he said those things on the bus but immediately apologized for it would you just be "disappointed"? (And I know there's a lot more to President Trump than the bus conversation). But an apology doesn't give Al Franken a pass here. And the investigation? Well, that's very noble of Sen. Franken, but with these allegations, there would be an investigation anyway. And it would be done with or without his consent.

And his apology? Try reading it again.

I don't know what was in my head when I took that picture. But that doesn't matter. There's no excuse. I understand why you can feel violated by that photo. I remember that rehearsal differently. But what's important is the impact on you and you felt violated by my actions, and for that I apologize.​

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/al-f...-tweeden-stayed-quiet-angry/story?id=51218706

Classic denial/non-denial. "I remember it differently". Seems Roy Moore tried the same thing. And is he really sorry for his actions, or for how it made her feel? Or is he sorry for the photo? Hey Al, she doesn't feel violated by the photo. She feels violate by you groping her! I'm with Stephen Colbert on this one. Color me unimpressed.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/17/arts/television/stephen-colbert-al-franken-sexual-harassment.html

I wonder how Al Franken would have reacted had there not been a picture? Had this come forward before all the allegations in Hollywood and against Roy Moore? Given his "I remember it differently" line I wonder if he would have denied it. Given the current environment in Washington and the Democrats criticism of Roy Moore, he really had no other option, now did he?

And if you want to talk about more current Democratic politicians, it was pretty widely known Vice President Joe Biden was a big-time womanizer and there are several stories of him touching women inappropriately. Democrats seemed to throw their support behind a second term for President Obama and Vice President Biden. I don't remember hearing any talk about replacing Biden on the ticket. Maybe you did.

There's plenty of stories of sexual assault coming from Hollywood and Washington lately. And, believe it or not, both sides are guilty of it. I'm sorry, but I don't give the Democrats any credit because they are better at owning up to it.

And before anyone thinks I am defending President Trump or Roy Moore, I'm not in anyway whatsoever. What they have said and did there is no excuse for and no defense for it. Put simply, it's WRONG! And the Republicans are wrong for their continued support. And no, I'm not making a moral equivalence here either. What I am pointing out is that it's very difficult to stand your moral ground when you are just "disappointed" by Sen. Franken's actions and dismiss it as just "kissing and brief touching".

 

[MuppetsRule]

And if anybody wants to get in to the "locker room talk" discussion and criticism you should maybe check your previous posts about calling people names using some of the most vulgar and offensive language you can about a woman and how that is somehow acceptable on here or anywhere. IIRC there was just one person on here that actually admonished that name-caller.