And America Continues to Show it's True Colors. . .

[jvcarroll]

The right would hate Jesus for scolding the rich and also insisting that they should love their enemies. The left would hate Jesus for using the word "sin" and also insisting that they should love their enemies.



Do you understand that my saying "Our country needs to value EVERYONE more" is quite obviously not racism?

On one hand, I do. However, did we say EVERYONE should be valued more when women were seeking the right to vote? That's the best comparison I can think of. I wouldn't say your statement is racist. I would say that it's not reaching the people you want to reach in the way you want to reach them if your intent is to be felt and understood. I get it. I still disagree with it somewhat.

On the Jesus thing, I get that. That said, I disagree that Jesus, as he's been recorded, ever really existed. I believe he's mostly folklore combined with different accounts of different figures in history all packaged together. I also disagree with the concept of sin, so you're right on that count. But I love the concept of renewal. Also, I'm going to BOLD this because it's something important that I realized recently. Hillary Clinton's basket of deplorables comment, while somewhat accurate, has a fatal flaw. She was only talking about the White Power and Super Rich movements among Trump supporters, so I agree with that part. But where it sinks with me is that she said they weren't redeemable. That's just wrong. To write people off, however horrible they seem, is just not okay. It's not what any Christian person should ever say. I'd overlooked that part of her statement last year. I'm sorry I did.

 

[jvcarroll]

Mostly during election season.



Lolol, dude, why in the world should these people vote for you? Do you even like them?

Are you talking me or the Democratic party? It's best to be clear on that. Also, have you discussed these thoughts on lives mattering with many black people, LGBT people and other minorities? Doing so and just listening might open your eyes and your heart. While you are TECHNICALLY right that everyone matters and everyone should be treated better, it's still about the emotion that minorities in this country, particularly blacks, are treated much worse than anybody else. I'm sure you agree with that.

 

[jvcarroll]

Mostly during election season.



Lolol, dude, why in the world should these people vote for you? Do you even like them?

Forgot to address the first comment. Yes, you are right that the Dems value minorities more (for some, it's the only time they value them at all) during election season. That, in my opinion, is deplorable. The horribleness of that is absolute.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Also, have you discussed these thoughts on lives mattering with many black people, LGBT people and other minorities?

I've talked with black people who said going around calling people "cis gendered" is nonsense (and then they got scolded by white millennials for it, go figure! Lol). I've talked with black people who said antifa is violent and they don't know why anyone would defend them. I saw a stand up routine recently by a black woman who pointed out that Charlottsville was a "race war" that only white people attended, lol. I've even talked with black people who defend mega churches and their right to be rich (which I very much disagreed with, lol). And these are not conservatives, not Trump supporters. It just feels like you only see minorities through the filter of the very narrow left. And you're not really talking about them like equals, you're treating them like your cause. They already went over this on All in the Family with Mike, lol. He only viewed his black friends in terms of how much they suffered (and how much he could save them). That's not how we build a better future.

Doing so and just listening might open your eyes and your heart.

I would say that's good advice for all, including yourself.

 

[jvcarroll]

I've talked with black people who said going around calling people "cis gendered" is nonsense and then got scolded by white millennials for it, lol. I've talked with black people who said antifa is violent and they don't know why anyone would defend them. And these are not conservatives. It just feels like you only see minorities through the filter of the very narrow left.

That judgement toward me is really inaccurate. We've come so far, so instead of being offended, I'm shooting for understanding here. Also, in many instances here, you've begun to personalize this discussion by pointing certain criticisms more toward me than the democratic party. I fear that's heading down a bad road. Just trying to course correct to keep things from diving into angst.

I can understand how you could feel that it's judging or fingerwagging because most people do that when talking about these issues. The truth is, in our beliefs, we all do that to some degree. My intent was not to judge you. I simply asked you a question. I apologize if it came off that way to you. Like I tell others to do, I probably should have used my words more wisely. When I say that to everyone, I say that to myself too.

The cis thing annoys me too sometimes too because it's often employed to shut people up rather than to understand what they're saying. That is a perfect example for what I think you're trying to say. Instead of being mad about it when it happens to me, I listen and try to see what adjustments from me could help other people feel included. I spent my entire young life feeling alien in a hyper conservative, Christian, Texas bubble so I made a choice to try to make everyone feel valued. I'm usually good at that. At least, in person I am. I suck at so many things in the world, but making people feel authentically valued when spending time with them is among my greatest talents. Still, there are times when I screw that up like the human I am.

Anyway, that's the thing. When someone's statements make me feel alienated, I try to see what they're saying from their perspective because they obviously feel alienated too and to antagonize that will only make it worse. That is at the heart of what it should mean to be a progressive in America. Sadly, that is not the reality or how it comes off.

I know minorities don't think in monolithic terms. Politicians of all stripes try to mold arguments like that. It's an unwise thing to do because, instead of making it about the people or plights, they make it about themselves and their candidacy. That, right there, is one of the greatest problems with the Democratic party.

People are individuals and their individual concerns should be considered - not just what we think they believe or what they should believe. That's precisely why I asked if you'd talked about these issues with minorities. It was not an accusation. I actually wanted to hear about the information you gained from it. Also, aside from being Catholic and an Italian American, you've shared so little about yourself in your posts. Not that it matters, but I've often wondered what region you live in and/or come from. Not that those things determine someone's beliefs, but our roots and environment very much impact us and it might help further understanding.

peace.

 

[LittleJerry92]

I can sadly relate to this.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theodysseyonline.com/politics-headache.amp

 

[CensoredAlso]

Dude, lol, I'm not angry. Not every disagreement means a step backwards. It's not the end of the world.

If you didn't mind my lumping evangelical pastors together, then why would you mind my lumping white millennials together?

 

[CensoredAlso]

I can sadly relate to this.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theodysseyonline.com/politics-headache.amp

That's an interesting point that it used to be one or two issues that were noticeably polarizing, but now more and more issues are being added to that list. I am leaning towards blaming the Internet and social media. They've made it all too easy to seek out those who agree with you, vilifying anyone else.

 

[jvcarroll]

Dude, lol, I'm not angry. Not every disagreement means a step backwards. It's not the end of the world.

If you didn't mind my lumping evangelical pastors together, then why would you mind my lumping white millennials together?

Dayum, you read these things fast. I deleted that within seconds of posting it because I saw a flaw in that argument. However, lumping Evangelical pastors together is mostly accurate because there are only a handful of them publicly speaking out against what the leadership is doing. Plus, Evangelism is being used a cause and a voting block, millennials might be seen that way or used that way, but it's not their doing. I see a difference there.


Also, IMHO More Democrats need to speak up about the problems with the party and more Evangelicals need to speak up about the problems with their most visible leadership. Evangelical Christians do good in the world. Heck, Catholics do a lot of good in the world (much more than Evangelicals in my experience, we take that for granted). However, I've seen the great harm that Evangelical leadership has caused in the lives of many, many people. Lives and families have been needlessly destroyed by the Evangelical movement and their leadership. Evangelical people themselves, they are individuals and think individual thoughts. In my experience, this is less so than Catholic people. What individual Catholics believe often has a surprisingly wide range. Score one for Catholicism. I know a lot of both Evangelicals and Christians. In fact, I make it a point to talk/listen to anyone different than I am. I'm a little guilty of what Dems do. I'm less interested in experience from white males like myself. It's not that I don't care. I just get that information constantly whether I seek it out or not. Trying is not necessary. No white male in America is shy about giving his opinion. Ever. I include myself in this.

 

[jvcarroll]

Can I just say, typing on the forum from a phone is challenging as heck?! Eep!