And America Continues to Show it's True Colors. . .

[jvcarroll]

That is your own opinion.

It is my opinion, but there's much evidence to support that in the Democratic party. There's much among Republicans too. They have such a hard time pushing anything through congress because there are two warring factions among Republicans. While that is fact, my analysis is that neither faction is helping the people as much as they're helping themselves. That part is entirely opinion. Facts aren't fungible. The analysis of it can be.

 

[jvcarroll]

Those were my choices in 1992 and 2000, respectively. Perot might've stood a better chance if he didn't flip-flop about running. He could've been a contender, but after he got cold feet about running, all momentum was lost. (And also if his running mate, Stockdale, wasn't so unglued).

Ralph Nader (Drtooth would've hung me from the highest tree for this!), while he had as much political clout as, say, Ben Carson, being a consumer advocate, and not having special interest groups in his back pocket, I'd be willing to give him a trial run.
Didn't want Bush, and Al Gore? My beef with him, his wife Tipper founded this society in the 80's, the PMRC, which would've overtly censored any music she and her Capitol cronies didn't like.
Just imagine any music from 1985 onwards (and probably backtracking before then) being subject to a handful of Capitol wives to decide whether it's suitable for YOU to listen to. Won't fly in my book.

Yes!

 

[MuppetsRule]

Do you really think so? I'd be great with that, but as his win taught us - anything is possible! There's a good chance he'll face some sort of reprimand that doesn't require him to step down. He'll behave like a martyr that will have his base solidify around him. Maybe Jarrod goes to jail. Do you think he even has loyalty to family? He demonstrated none of that in his life. He'll throw whomever to the dogs in order to "win". I watched Coco last night and, even though I'm reading the Trump win into that, there's a message about those who try to get ahead at any cost. Blind ambition. That's Trump. It works in this life and not everyone pays a price for it. None of it, however, makes the world a better place. It's a strong force that could keep him in office for 8 years. Keep in mind, this is me saying all of this.

Yeah I really think that. I think the odds are better that he is NOT the Republican candidate than he is. Here's the way I see it, from least likely to most likely:

1) President Trump turns his presidency around, is wildly successful the next 3+ years, people chant his name everywhere he goes, and because of all of this success, D'Snowth becomes a republican for life.

2) His presidency is cut short for some reason, whether that is because of resignation, health, scandal or impeachment. I give the odds of this about the same as no. 1

3) He decides that he does not want to run again. He declares his work is done and his presidency was a big success, the most successful presidency in history.

4) The Republicans, after 4 years of gridlock in Washington, kick him out of the party. President Trump runs as an independent. This is where you'll see the martyr card played

4) He is challenged in the primaries by several candidates. The Republicans realize how damaging President Trump has been to the party and finally come up with a decent candidate or two. They will not make the mistake of running 16 candidates again and diluting the vote. They throw everything they have behind these other candidates to defeat President Trump in the primary.

 

[jvcarroll]

Yeah I really think that. I think the odds are better that he is NOT the Republican candidate than he is. Here's the way I see it, from least likely to most likely:

1) President Trump turns his presidency around, is wildly successful the next 3+ years, people chant his name everywhere he goes, and because of all of this success, D'Snowth becomes a republican for life.

2) His presidency is cut short for some reason, whether that is because of resignation, health, scandal or impeachment. I give the odds of this about the same as no. 1

3) He decides that he does not want to run again. He declares his work is done and his presidency was a big success, the most successful presidency in history.

4) The Republicans, after 4 years of gridlock in Washington, kick him out of the party. President Trump runs as an independent. This is where you'll see the martyr card played

4) He is challenged in the primaries by several candidates. The Republicans realize how damaging President Trump has been to the party and finally come up with a decent candidate or two. They will not make the mistake of running 16 candidates again and diluting the vote. They throw everything they have behind these other candidates to defeat President Trump in the primary.

I've got a lot more scenarios, but these are some good ones. Part of me believes that this could happen:


There's enough indictments and other controversies, criminal or not, that will cause congress to expel the President and that will give us Pence. That, I think, is about 50/50.


I also think he's growing tired of the presidency. It's not fun. It never really will be fun. And he hates that he actually has less control over things than he thought he'd have. He could leave on his own saying that he did what he could and just "burn the house down" by accusing any failures on everybody else.


Or he could dodge all of this, run again and win again due to the DNC's inept practices. They should never have treated Bernie Sanders the way they did. I understand it. He wasn't a real Democrat, but he had some good ideas to mix into the soup. There's still no one standout progressive that seems ready to take on Trump next cycle. That's kind of shameful. Someone should be rising from the ashes now. Instead, the DNC is trying to rebuild with the ashes. The obvious stupidity of that is largely going overlooked.

 

[Censored]

Again, again, with the goading. My views are not extreme left or extreme right. That was the gist of the point I was making. Yours, however, appear to be extreme left. So, yeah. I have extreme views about integrity, but politics, no. The only people who believe my views to be extremely partisan are the ones who are far gone. For example, I'm a lib who believes in the 2nd amendment who also believes that it should have restrictions on it. That is not extreme. Most of my political views are like that. With that, I'm out. Make whatever incorrect arguments you'd like to make about me. This is precisely why Dems lose elections. We fight with each other rather than find common ground. I've been trying so friggin hard to find that common ground with you, but you are unbending and unwilling to address the things that I (not someone else) actually said. So, conversation is useless. I was one of the few folk here who agreed with the majority of what you had to say, but you kept going after me for a minority opinion. I'm done. Frog bless, fella. Good luck with your endeavors. I mostly like you and what you have to say, but I don't appreciate the mischaracterizations or loaded posts to get me to continue to respond to you.

Again, you don't seem to do well with any kind of disagreement. Also, you seem quick to call others names such as "extreme", "cynical," and "fringe," but have a very difficult time if someone points out these traits in you (Yes, they are there). You are the one who turned this into a personal argument; I was just giving my opinion on 3rd parties. I had the same convo with MuppetsRule a few weeks ago (and frankly, he dealt with a difference of opinion much better).


Whoever wishes to ignore me is more than free to do so.

 

[MuppetsRule]

I've got a lot more scenarios, but these are some good ones. Part of me believes that this could happen:


There's enough indictments and other controversies, criminal or not, that will cause congress to expel the President and that will give us Pence. That, I think, is about 50/50.


I also think he's growing tired of the presidency. It's not fun. It never really will be fun. And he hates that he actually has less control over things than he thought he'd have. He could leave on his own saying that he did what he could and just "burn the house down" by accusing any failures on everybody else.


Or he could dodge all of this, run again and win again due to the DNC's inept practices. They should never have treated Bernie Sanders the way they did. I understand it. He wasn't a real Democrat, but he had some good ideas to mix into the soup. There's still no one standout progressive that seems ready to take on Trump next cycle. That's kind of shameful. Someone should be rising from the ashes now. Instead, the DNC is trying to rebuild with the ashes. The obvious stupidity of that is largely going overlooked.

I think your first scenario fits under my no. 2 and your 2nd scenario fits into my 3rd scenario.

After a couple of more years of President Trump I think someone will emerge from the Democrats. Not sure who just yet but IMHO I think you are going to see in another year or so all kinds of Democrats begin positioning themselves for a presidential run. The Republicans will lose control of the House and the Senate in the next round of elections. Every Democrat who has even an inkling of running will throw their hat in the ring because of the Republicans vulnerability. Someone decent will emerge from that group.

Of course, there always is the chance that President Trump wins the Republican nomination. If he does (and I still don't see that happening) he will lose the election to the Democratic candidate by a record margin. Of course, that's what they said about the last election.

But if I were a betting man I'd go all-in on him not being the Republican candidate.

 

[LittleJerry92]

I'll just go off and say for the record I have no beef with anyone in regards to their views. Some of @Censored's, @jvcarroll's and @D'Snowth's liberal views I don't entirely agree with, some of @MuppetsRule's conservative views I don't entirely agree with, but I for one am not the type to just hate on someone simply for political views.... Even if this thread can give me a headache sometimes.

 

[jvcarroll]

Again, you don't seem to do well with any kind of disagreement. Also, you seem quick to call others names such as "extreme", "cynical," and "fringe," but have a very difficult time if someone points out these traits in you (Yes, they are there). You are the one who turned this into a personal argument; I was just giving my opinion on 3rd parties. I had the same convo with MuppetsRule a few weeks ago (and frankly, he dealt with a difference of opinion much better).


Whoever wishes to ignore me is more than free to do so.

Fact and opinion are different things. I'm fine with disagreements on opinion, as cynical as I might find them personally, but not on fact. We need to be much more careful about that. That said, I feel bad if I made you feel bad so I'll apologize for any and all of that.

This is how I should have said it:

Fact: Third Parties don't win Presidencies in America.

Fact: Third Party candidacies usually end up helping the worst of the two main candidates. (Cough, cough, Jill Stein)

Fact: Third Parties can and do help change the political conversation at times.

Opinion: The opinion here is what value there is in that conversation change; what it means to individual voters and the different political parties.


I value that in 3rd parties a lot while you don't seem to value it much, if at all. There's where we disagree. And that's fine. Characterizing that was a misstep on my part.

The rest, however, is fact and it appeared that you were claiming it wasn't and then misrepresented my words over and over again. That, of course, is infuriating to any person. I'm not sure if it was intentional, but I admit that it would have been easier to get the gist of what I was saying if I had said it as plainly as above.

Does that suffice?

 

[jvcarroll]

I'll just go off and say for the record I have no beef with anyone in regards to their views. Some of @Censored's, @jvcarroll's and @D'Snowth's liberal views I don't entirely agree with, some of @MuppetsRule's conservative views I don't entirely agree with, but I for one am not the type to just hate on someone simply for political views.... Even if this thread can give me a headache sometimes.

I agree with that too and hate no one. In fact, I like Censored. Conversation with Censored has been a challenge, even though we agree most of the time on most things. We're both passionate people. That's kind of why I hardly ever post to him and just like the posts that I agree with (that's actually a lot of posts).

 

[MuppetsRule]

I'll just go off and say for the record I have no beef with anyone in regards to their views. Some of @Censored's, @jvcarroll's and @D'Snowth's liberal views I don't entirely agree with, some of @MuppetsRule's conservative views I don't entirely agree with, but I for one am not the type to just hate on someone simply for political views.... Even if this thread can give me a headache sometimes.

Says you