Respectful Politics Thread (Let's Just See)

D'Snowth

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First off I want to make it clear that the Trumps administration did not make this a rule or even a mandate for the NFL.
Come on, this is exactly what Trump wants, and once again, he's getting his way simply because he's Donald Trump. Nobody has been more vocal about his disdain for NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem than Donald Trump; nobody has been attacking NFL players for kneeling during the National Anthem more than Donald Trump; nobody has been making people (on the right) upset about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem more than Donald Trump . . . he and Pence even staged that walk-out during the National Anthem at a game to "get back" at the NFL players kneeling during the anthem, in some sort of a petty "take that" revenge plan.

His "Administration" clearly has influence in this, because otherwise, I don't see something like this happening. Who else would think to charge entire NFL teams fines for protesting racial injustices than one of the greediest and pettiest people in America?

And you're right, I did point it out in my post: the players do have a choice - either stay in the locker room during the anthem, or have the entire team fined for your right to freedom of expression. And again, nobody is trying to do more to sense freedom of expression and freedom of speech than Donald Trump.
 

CensoredAlso

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nobody has been making people (on the right) upset about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem more than Donald Trump
Or people were already angry about it and Trump just fed into it. And I can totally see the NFL being worried about lost TV ratings.
 

jvcarroll

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About the NFL (and kneeling during the National Anthem):

It was actually a new thing for players to be present for the anthem. The NFL and owners were paid to do so by the government. Innocent enough when people wanted to do it.

I find it extremely distasteful for any person to instruct black Americans on how to feel about injustice done against their community or how to peacefully demonstrate their outrage about it.

A private business can do what they please. I could get fired from work for using my freedom of speech, and so can players on an NFL team.

Demonstration comes with an inherent risk. Most players are not rich. Only a few select team members are. Each player is already risking endorsement deals and possibly being traded or fired at season's end. An additional fine is egregious.

The NFL has way too many tax breaks and ties to government money than they should as a private corporation.

Most of the owners, like the majority of business owners, only care about the bottom line. That's to be expected.

Injustice happens to everyone, but that's not the point. Injustice against black Americans is greater than injustice against any other group of Americans (except for maybe trans individuals). The treatment of blacks in America is one of this country's greatest Original Sins. Period.

The kneeling during the anthem is not disrespectful to the flag. It's a way to remain respectful while honoring fallen peers.

Donald Trump did not create the rule, but he certainly used all of the influence of his bully pulpit to accomplish just that. Also, Donald Trump never served a day in uniform and dodged the draft over a made up issue. He and his companies have a history of discrimination against minorities including his longstanding birtherism claim of our former President. He's since retracted that notion, yet never apologized for it. He's also made subsequent statements that, again, call Obama's place of birth in question. Patriotism isn't just talk. It's action. There are few people with less patriotism than President Trump IMHO.

While this new policy of players being allowed to stay in the locker room (like it used to be) seems like a positive step, it is merely a lateral one that solves nothing except ticket sales. It's not meant to do more than that.

And, finally, racism is a huge issue, but there's one that's even greater in the NFL. These players, most of them not paid like superstars, break their bodies and brains to the point of shorter and compromised lives afterward, yet fans still support the game. Most have a hard time with medical bills after retirement. I will not. I do not. I will never care about a game that does that to players and their families.

Play Ball (or don't).
 

CensoredAlso

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I don't know about disrespectful to the flag, but it's certainly meant to be disrespectful to someone. The police? America in general? If that's the case, you can't expect many of the average people who watch NFL to be thrilled about that. The left is seen (whether correctly or not) as not understanding the importance of pride in your country. The only thing they ever seem to be willing to take pride in about America is "diversity," in its most shallow terms. And even then it can seem so begrudgingly. This is the same old argument where the right and left in this country are just so divided and so unwilling to listen to each other.
 

D'Snowth

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I don't know about disrespectful to the flag, but it's certainly meant to be disrespectful to someone.
No. Again, it's protesting racial prejudice and injustice that's becoming the norm in America . . . and yes, that does include the brutality brought on against them by the police, hence why Black Lives Matter is a thing. Trump and his base are the ones making it about being disrespectful towards America, even though they're the ones trying to make America an all-right/all-white country.
The left is seen (whether correctly or not) as not understanding the importance of pride in your country. The only thing they ever seem to be willing to take pride in about America is "diversity," in its most shallow terms.
Well, again, it's the right that's trying to take diversity out of America altogether, hence why the left is fighting so hard to keep diversity in America, since America is supposed to be the land of freedom - and that includes the freedom for people to be able to be who they are, what they are, and live their lives as they wish.

This is also why Antifa is a thing . . . now yes, they're quite an extremist group themselves, I'll say, but again, they're also trying to fight to keep diversity and what have you in America, since it's pretty clear that Trump's America is basically becoming a fascist country - one of the reasons Germany (a once-fascist country itself) and other of our allied countries are wanting to sever diplomatic relations with us.
 

CensoredAlso

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No. Again, it's protesting racial prejudice and injustice
Ehhh, someone has to be enacting the prejudice and injustice. Therefore obviously someone is being disrespected. Do the police deserve such disrespect? Does America in general? Most importantly, do the people in the stands?

that's becoming the norm in America
I wouldn't go that far.

Well, again, it's the right that's trying to take diversity out of America altogether
Nowhere near that simple.

Trump's America is basically becoming a fascist country
No. Americans have no idea what that means. There's a lot of silly hysteria going on from both sides lately.

one of the reasons Germany (a once-fascist country itself) and other of our allied countries are wanting to sever diplomatic relations with us.
Our allies have problems of their own.
 

D'Snowth

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Ehhh, someone has to be enacting the prejudice and injustice.
Yes. The far right, including the whites on the far right, such as those in the Supremacy groups like the KKK and what have you. And yes, the police as well.
Therefore obviously someone is being disrespected.
People of color and minorities, hence why they're protesting.
Do the police deserve such disrespect?
Considering they're bringing it on themselves, I would argue that statement is subjective.
Does America in general?
Trump's America? Yes. America in general? Again, this is subjective. Would America in general approve of the racial tensions and overall discrimination that's been going on? That's hard to say. Trump's America? Yes, because they're the ones instigating all of this in the first place.
Most importantly, do the people in the stands?
No, but this isn't about them.
No. Americans have no idea what that means.
More Americans know what that means than you think, and given that Trump and his base are basically wanting the entire country to conform to their views, their ideals, their way of life, and want to go as far as to try to punish or even banish people (if they could) for daring to take a stand against it. I shared the propaganda I got in the mail from Trump's headquarters in the other thread before it was deleted: they're actually forming organizations and groups to do whatever they can to sabotage Democrats (and the left in general) from winning the 2018 midterms by spreading all kinds of outrageous, sensational lies that the left is trying to turn America, Canada, and Mexico into one big country (not ture), trying to drive all religious people out of America (not true), trying to turn America into a Muslim country (not true), trying to kill babies and veterans (not true), and other crap like that. This came from Trump's headquarters. It was sent to my address, but was for somebody else. This is Trump and his people pandering to their base, spreading lies about everybody outside of their party for political (and religious) gain. This is Trump and his base basically saying America has to be their way or America will turn into H377 . . . not to mention, I can go on and on about Trump's dictatorial behavior of how he often breaks laws and continues to engage in business deals when he's not supposed to, and basically looking into any area he can so he can benefit himself - whether it's enacting big tax cuts and breaks for the wealthy, or anything like that.

I suppose that's not fascism?
Our allies have problems of their own.
Be that as it may, Trump hasn't been making our international relations any better by bullying, insulting, disrespecting, and taunting them like a pompous little brat king.
 

CensoredAlso

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And yes, the police as well.
Well then you have to expect families of police to be offended.

No, but this isn't about them.
How can they not take it somewhat personally?

More Americans know what that means than you think
Some Americans know what it means and that's how they know we aren't in one, lol.

and given that Trump and his base are basically wanting the entire country to conform to their views, their ideals, their way of life
The left wants to do the same. And Trump is proving an incompetent in any case.

I shared the propaganda I got in the mail from Trump's headquarters in the other thread before it was deleted: they're actually forming organizations and groups to do whatever they can to sabotage Democrats (and the left in general) from winning the 2018 midterms by spreading all kinds of outrageous, sensational lies that the left is trying to turn America, Canada, and Mexico into one big country (not ture), trying to drive all religious people out of America (not true), trying to turn America into a Muslim country (not true), trying to kill babies and veterans (not true), and other crap like that.
That stuff is obviously highly exaggerated, but some does have a kernel of truth.
 

D'Snowth

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And here's what the one Evangelical preacher who has any actual sense in his mind has to say about all of this:
https://johnpavlovitz.com/2016/09/20/white-america-its-time-to-take-a-knee/

I'd also link an article where the NFL admits that the reason for their decision was, indeed, caving into pressure from Trump's "Administration," but I see it comes from a supposed left-wing outlet, so I guess I probably shouldn't.


The left wants to do the same.
Not really. It's what the right says when the left refuses to conform to their regressive, backward-thinking views. Yeah, yeah, I know the left isn't perfect either, but they're not about conformity or fascism (again, Antifa, even though they're a bit of a poor example), they're about preserving rights, freedoms, liberties, and basic human decency for everybody . . . that may seem like fascism and conformity to those who are against all of that, but then again, this is another area at which much of the right excels at: pinning the blame and accusations on everyone else for what they're guilty of themselves. It's like I pointed out before:

RIGHTWINGER: Black people need to go back to Africa.
LEFTWINGER: That's racist.
RIGHTWINGER: No, you're racist for thinking what I said is racist.

RIGHTWINGER: Women belong in the kitchen and the bedroom.
LEFTWINGER: That's sexist.
RIGHTWINGER: No, you're sexist for thinking what I said is sexist.

RIGHTWINGER: Gay people are destroying the fabric of our society with their mere existence.
LEFTWINGER: That's homophobic.
RIGHTWINGER: It's in the Bible.
LEFTWINGER: So is loving your neighbor as yourself, and doing unto others as you would have them do unto you.
RIGHTWINGER: Stop cherry-picking the Bible you godless ****** and go to H377.

RIGHTWINGER: My rights are being infringed! This isn't about race, this isn't about guns, this isn't about any of that stuff! They're trying to take our freedoms away from us!
LEFTWINGER: You're the ones making it about race, guns, and all that other stuff.
RIGHTWINGER: No we're not, you are, because you always have to push your political agendas!

RIGHTWINGER: The left wants to take away our guns!
LEFTWINGER: We never said that, you're making that up as a scare-tactic.
RIGHTWINGER: No we're not, you're the ones using scare-tactics!

RIGHTWINGER: You have to respect my president, worship my God, speak my language, and live my life, or you don't belong here!
LEFTWINGER: People are free to do as they wish.
RIGHTWINGER: Quick shoving your lifestyles down our throats all the time!

RIGHTWINGER: Obama's not my President, he's a black Muslim trying to destroy America from within and turn us all into a Muslim nation and making us a laughing stock in the world.
LEFTWINGER: Whatever. Trump's not my President, he's got no policital experience and isn't qualified for Office.
RIGHTWINGER: OHMIGOD!!! HOW DARE YOU DISRESPECT THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA! HE'S DOING AN EXCELLENT JOB! IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, YOU CAN GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY FOR ALL YOU CARE!
 

CensoredAlso

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If a business wanted to kick out nazis, that would be their right. And a business can also tell their employees to stop protesting on their dime. Both choices are within the First Amendment.

It's what the right says when the left refuses to conform to their regressive, backward-thinking views.
It's what I'm saying and I'm not "the right."

Yeah, yeah, I know the left isn't perfect either, but they're not about conformity
A big agree to disagree there.

that may seem like fascism and conformity to those who are against all of that
Or they have reasons you haven't been exposed to.

I mean if you want oppression, look no further than China. They wouldn't even be allowed to complain online (or out loud either) that they live in a fascist state.

pinning the blame and accusations on everyone else for what they're guilty of themselves.
Something both parties excel at. These threads we've been doing are filled with examples of the left preferring to pass a kidney stone rather than ever admit they've been wrong about something.
 
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