35 in a Different Light

Infinity Sirius

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I was on toughpigs.com today when I read this article about the 35th anniversary special.

I believe Danny is making some good points in how we as fans long for the Sesame Street we grew up with and how Sesame Street is trying to show characters and skits that are what kids today will respond to. The little red menace (quote Oscar) is seen differently by kids and maybe we as the fans need to take a different look at Sesame Street without a critical eye. :wink:


http://toughpigs.com/journalstreetweliveon.htm

Also how would Cookie Monster eat a cookie? The question remains the same and will always. :grouchy:

Please know that Danny's opinion in the article is not mine and I disagree/agree with some of his viewpoints.
 

Drtooth

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Infinity Sirius said:
I was on toughpigs.com today when I read this article about the 35th anniversary special.

I believe Danny is making some good points in how we as fans long for the Sesame Street we grew up with and how Sesame Street is trying to show characters and skits that are what kids today will respond to. The little red menace (quote Oscar) is seen differently by kids and maybe we as the fans need to take a different look at Sesame Street without a critical eye.
That's what I've been trying to tell everyone for lord knows how long. I used to hate Elmo as well, and crave for the old days, but then I saw it in different viewpoints, be it through kids, parents, etc. I totally agree with that article. Really I do... especially this part

>> So this, sadly, is where at least some of the longtime Sesame fans check out. During the lean years in the mid-90's, before they recast Henson's and Oz's characters, there was a huge vacuum on the Street: they didn't have Ernie, Bert, Grover or Cookie Monster to play with, so Elmo ended up filling the gap left by the loss of all four characters. As it turns out, Elmo was essentially keeping the place warm for them, helping it to tick over until they decided to take the plunge and recast all those characters -- but at the time, it looked like Elmo was taking over, pushing out the characters that we loved and hogging the spotlight. Some fans still hold a grudge against Elmo, even now that we have our other monsters back. That's show biz for you.<<

that's pretty much the point I always make, yet no one listens. Oz wasn't present as much as he was in the early days, and a lot of the other perfomers have passed on or left. Some performers had only a brief stay (like Dave Golez) Elmo, Baby Bear, Zoe, and Telly were their mainly because we didn't have Cookie Monster, Grover, Bert, etc. Heck, until recently we didn't have Gladys.

The point is that I'm looking at SS from all possible view points other than angry 70's fan. I'm looking at the point tht it continues to be one of the few quality children's Television shows still being produced after 35 years, a bleeping record.

The bottom line is, sure we don't have pinball segments, Sam the Robot, and stuff like that, but we still have Ernie and Bert, Big Bird, Snuffy, Oscar, the Count, Cookie Monster and especially Grover, back and better than ever....
 

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Drtooth said:
That's what I've been trying to tell everyone for lord knows how long. I used to hate Elmo as well, and crave for the old days, but then I saw it in different viewpoints, be it through kids, parents, etc. I totally agree with that article. Really I do... especially this part

>> So this, sadly, is where at least some of the longtime Sesame fans check out. During the lean years in the mid-90's, before they recast Henson's and Oz's characters, there was a huge vacuum on the Street: they didn't have Ernie, Bert, Grover or Cookie Monster to play with, so Elmo ended up filling the gap left by the loss of all four characters. As it turns out, Elmo was essentially keeping the place warm for them, helping it to tick over until they decided to take the plunge and recast all those characters -- but at the time, it looked like Elmo was taking over, pushing out the characters that we loved and hogging the spotlight. Some fans still hold a grudge against Elmo, even now that we have our other monsters back. That's show biz for you.<<

that's pretty much the point I always make, yet no one listens. Oz wasn't present as much as he was in the early days, and a lot of the other perfomers have passed on or left. Some performers had only a brief stay (like Dave Golez) Elmo, Baby Bear, Zoe, and Telly were their mainly because we didn't have Cookie Monster, Grover, Bert, etc. Heck, until recently we didn't have Gladys.

The point is that I'm looking at SS from all possible view points other than angry 70's fan. I'm looking at the point tht it continues to be one of the few quality children's Television shows still being produced after 35 years, a bleeping record.

The bottom line is, sure we don't have pinball segments, Sam the Robot, and stuff like that, but we still have Ernie and Bert, Big Bird, Snuffy, Oscar, the Count, Cookie Monster and especially Grover, back and better than ever....
And the points we're trying to make is that we disagree. Personally, I believe that the old Sesame Street can be every bit as beneficial to this generation as it was to ours. I believe that the old and new could be incorporated in a way that would work if the writers had a desire to do so. It's not that we don't understand your point, DR. Tooth, it's that we don't agree with it. So, shall we agree to disagree or shall we scream about it?
 

Mark The Shark

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Actually, I thought that scene with Grover and the peacock was pretty funny and demented. That was a welcome throwback to the SS of my youth, when they would do off-the-wall stuff just to be funny or silly.

Overall, though, I'm not too impressed with current SS. It's "dumbed down" too much. The producers aren't giving kids enough credit. Aside from that though, when you see a long-standing favorite show which has entertained a couple generations of kids go through big changes like that, it is an indication that the show is in trouble, and that it isn't grabbing the audience numbers it once did. In Chicago, SS is on (last time I checked) once a day, at 10:00 in the morning. When I was growing up, it was on at 7:30, 3:30, and at least one or two additional times daily and a bunch of times over the weekend. That tells me it isn't doing as well as it used to, and the suits have panicked and messed around with it, and as each change doesn't help make anything any better, more changes follow. It's too bad. (Sigh)
 

mikebennidict

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i bet ya that's the case with many PBS stations. even Mr. Rogers Neighborhood is only once a day. so much for theese long time PBS shows.
 

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I wish they'd show all of the Mr. Roger's episodes, from the very beginning to the end and let the children see the entire package throughout the years.
 

Super Scooter

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Drtooth said:
that's pretty much the point I always make, yet no one listens.....
Yeah, but when Danny says it... it's important.
 

ssetta

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I don't know if the airtime(s) have anything to do with the popularity. That's most likely because there's so much competition for other kids shows on PBS, especially older kids shows. See, when I was a kid, I think mostly EVERY PBS station had it on 2 or 3 times a day, and it would always be on AT LEAST ONCE in the afternoon. Here, we get 4 PBS stations, well, actually 3 1/2. And our main one, 'GBH2 airs it at 6 am and 10 am. So it is still on twice. But years ago, it used to be on at 3 pm, and I would watch it when I got home from school. But then in October 1996, was the premiere of "Arthur", which took the 3 pm timeslot, and SS has only been on in the morning from then on out. Now it's not just WGBH, it's all over the country that that happened. However, NHPTV (New Hampshire Public Television), another PBS that we get, had it on at 5 pm for a bit longer, until February 1999, when Zoom premiered, they did away with it as well. Now, a very small PBS station that we have in this area, Rhode Island PBS (formerly known as Channel 36) had it on twice a day in the early 90s at 9 am and 3:30pm, but in 1994 (believe it or not) they did away with the 3:30 airing, so they could get more classroom programming in, and they knew that WGBH aired it at the same time, so they didn't feel they needed it. But I actually preferred to watch it on 36, only because they didn't do voiceovers during credits like WGBH did. And they still don't. But then in the Fall of 1999, they actually moved it from 9 am TO 3:30 pm, which I was quite surprised by. That was because SS was the only kids show that was on in the morning, and everything else was on in the afternoon, and that's why they moved it. Then, they had more kids shows, and less classroom programming, so it got pushed back to 2 pm. And then on Labor Day 2002, they got even more kids programming, and it is now on at 7:30am. So, they're basically starting to become more like a regular PBS station. They're still a bit old-fashioned though.

So anyway, the airtime doesn't really have to do with ratings.
 

Drtooth

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Mark The Shark said:
Overall, though, I'm not too impressed with current SS. It's "dumbed down" too much. The producers aren't giving kids enough credit. Aside from that though, when you see a long-standing favorite show which has entertained a couple generations of kids go through big changes like that, it is an indication that the show is in trouble, and that it isn't grabbing the audience numbers it once did. In Chicago, SS is on (last time I checked) once a day, at 10:00 in the morning. When I was growing up, it was on at 7:30, 3:30, and at least one or two additional times daily and a bunch of times over the weekend. That tells me it isn't doing as well as it used to, and the suits have panicked and messed around with it, and as each change doesn't help make anything any better, more changes follow. It's too bad. (Sigh)
I cannot stand the term "Dumbed Down." Way too harsh, considering. I mean, society is "dumbed down" and they drug SS down with them. the trouble? Tv has become the baby sitter, too many people take SS fro granted, and just throw their 2 year olds in front of it while they do something else. 2 year olds are too young to watch TV anyway. Not only that, but look at the other PBS shows of our times... you 70's people had stuff like Mr. Rogers, and Electric Company, us 80's folks had Mr. Rogers, 321 contact, and Square one (the electirc company of math). I think SS was on more times a day then, because PBS didn't need to buy all these different shows. Sure we still have great shows like Arthur, Cyberchase, Zoom, stuff like that, but we also have pointless garbage like Jayt jay the Airplane, Barney the dinosaur.... shows that don't try, and are only on TV to make money off of merchandising.

But if you think it's just kid's TV that's been dumbed down, check out the adult shows. Extreem makeover, Survivor, Married to the Kelleys.... uninspired knockoffs of everything.... I barely watch anything except SS, a few cartoons, and King of Queens (I'm a big Jerry Stiller fan), and maybe the ocassional Seinfeld reruns. TV is dumbed down. In fact, no matter how "bad" SS gets, it's still way more intellegent than what's on fox (Freak show fridays, come on!)

It's a very confusing time at SW.... I remember Sonia Manzano (Maria) talking on the Today show how they have to deal with all these studies. This study says one thing, this study says another, focus groups... blah blah blah. It sucks that they have to deal with it. But the sad thing is, they have to. It's not a conspiracy to alienate SS fans, just something they have to do. Sure, they could just give up, but do you really think any show could fill the void, espcially since they are low quality, and not even the actors try hard.

I feel SS is doing a pretty good job considering the fact that they don't have the larger budget, PBS doesn't have the larger budget, older kids want to watch Pokejunk and the like, they have to deal with studies that say one thing or another.... It's crazy. Personally, yes... I did not like Elmo's World. I did not like the structural changes. I reluctantly excepted them, and found to look towards the positive aspects. Hey! The show is still on, and still the highest quality of any kid's show produced to this day (Arthur being a close second, I wish they had that show when I was younger).

I mean, the one thing no one really looks at is the puppets. Sure, you can hate the character of Elmo, but you have to admit, he is flawlessly performed. Muppeteers are my favorite actors in the world, because they can take the guise of any character, anywhere and convincingly play that part, even if someone continues the role of someone else (I think Eric Jacobson does a much better job of performing Piggy and Fozzie than Frank Oz has of late, check out MFS or MTI if you don't believe me). They even screw up in character. The puppetry is why I still like the show, and that's the one thing that stays consistantly high quality throughout the entire series.

However, I do agree there should be a fan alternative. I think they are trying to reach out to the fans of classic SS, with Merchandise, mostly.... If only Nick didn't buy out SW in Noggin we would still have SS Unpaved and the Electric company. I think SW should try to branch out into classic skit related DVD's, or best ofs for fans. Then we have to deal with the parents who take SW for granted (the ones that plop them in front of the TV, to get rid of them). Go to Amazon.com and look at half the reviews for the SS media... They always buy them for 2 year olds, and complain about various idiotic things. That's pretty much the type of people that SW unfortunately has to look out for. It sucks, sure... but you cannot change parents.

Bottom line, SS as a show still is qaulity kids entertainment, but the fans need love too....
 

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Mark The Shark said:
Actually, I thought that scene with Grover and the peacock was pretty funny and demented. That was a welcome throwback to the SS of my youth, when they would do off-the-wall stuff just to be funny or silly.

Overall, though, I'm not too impressed with current SS. It's "dumbed down" too much. The producers aren't giving kids enough credit. Aside from that though, when you see a long-standing favorite show which has entertained a couple generations of kids go through big changes like that, it is an indication that the show is in trouble, and that it isn't grabbing the audience numbers it once did. In Chicago, SS is on (last time I checked) once a day, at 10:00 in the morning. When I was growing up, it was on at 7:30, 3:30, and at least one or two additional times daily and a bunch of times over the weekend. That tells me it isn't doing as well as it used to, and the suits have panicked and messed around with it, and as each change doesn't help make anything any better, more changes follow. It's too bad. (Sigh)
Well said.
 
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