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ABC officially cancels "The Muppets"

Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by JimAndFrank, May 12, 2016.

  1. MUPPETFAN1976

    MUPPETFAN1976 Well-Known Member

    Apologies for the double reply, but I know Star Wars and all them are popular with Disney, but we still have hope!! People are like "Oh, we don't have a big enough fanbase." Really? You really think so? I'm 16 and I've been a fan for nearly 5 years. There are Muppets inside my blood (not really, but you know what I mean). Millions of people love the Muppets. Not only in the U.S. but around the world! Once a Muppets fan, always a Muppets fan! I didn't get all 8 films for no reason. I have all 8 films because I LOVE The Muppets. I have other friends from around the country who are fans. Even some of my younger cousins are fans too. You see, me, my friends, and my cousins, we're all fans for life! Even when something like this happens, I will still be a fan for life.
    CensoredAlso and scooterfan360 like this.
  2. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I'm far angrier that there is an audience for NCIS than I am at ABC for canning a show running against it. But I digress.

    The fact of the matter is this. The show probably wouldn't have been cancelled so abruptly and callously had it not been for the fact that the television division of Disney wasn't losing money because no one watches TV anymore. They had a steady stream of hit movies that were making a crapload of money, but the investurds saw a dank spot, panicked, and dropped the stock down, leading the new ABC president having to hack and slash at TV shows on the line up, and corporate synergy be d**ned. Had this not been the case, I have every reason to expect this would have got a pity renewal midseason. But no. They pretty much destroyed their profitable Disney Infinity, not even so much as trying to get a third party to resurrect it because their gaming division is down. Heck, they're even getting rid of Disney Dollars!!! No crap. They're going friggin' insane because the darn stock fell.

    Think of it this way. Marvel is making money hand over fist in comic sales, merchandising, and movies. And they STILL killed both Agent Carter and Marvel's Most Wanted. Corporate synergy is no match for Corporate cynicism.

    Or look at it another way. Disney kept renewing that awful According to Jim even though no one watched that flaming pile of sewage, and dumping the episodes in summer in hour long blocks. Which usually would be a sign a show got cancelled, but it was on like that for three years. An atrocious sitcom in a death slot in a dump season got renewed twice. And while I give them credit for at least giving Better off Ted, Galavant and Neighbors a second pity chance, I'm disappointed they couldn't just squeeze the Muppets into that "we're not losing money hand over fist on this one, maybe things will pick back up, but this is the last chance" category. They probably would had it not been for the aforementioned share holders running around like chickens with their heads cut off over losing money on the TV side when NO ONE WATCHES TV ANYMORE. But it's not like this is NBC that only has 2 terrible hit shows in The Voice and "Look at us make fun of fat people for an hour and call it inspirational."

    Eh...wrong, wrong and double wrong.

    Disney cared enough to want to make a television show, ABC cared enough to air it. It's the very people who supposedly wanted the Muppets back on TV who didn't tune in to future episodes because they were far too conservative, too jaded, or far too nostalgically head up their butt to give the show a chance. You read the criticisms on this very site and it came in three flavors...

    • This is absolutely nothing like the old show and Jim Henson didn't make it so it's automatically awful
    • This version of Piggy and Kermit doesn't match up exactly with my fan fiction. Fail! I'm insulted that my interpretation of the characters isn't Canon.
    • EWWWW! There's so much filth! This is exactly like every single cartoon like Beavis and Butt-Head or South park my mommy didn't let me watch. Why can't it be wholesome like that show about the old women who constantly talk about sex more graphically and frequently from 30 years ago?
    But frankly, the problem is this...

    The show was rushed into production after an 8 minute pitch, put in a time slot that should have been the safest or ABC, it got treated like crap from viewers because they wanted to try something different instead of just lazily flopping around a Muppet Show Clone, ABC and the Show Runners blabbed to news outlets about how they were going to change the show when changes were happening organically, thus essentially saying "DERP! We failed!" and for the extra bit of dumb#%%ery changed the time slot to not compete with Zooey Deschanel's overrated crapcom, and after months of twisting in the wind and mixed signals from Disney, ABC killed the show to appease stock holders not happy with the Billions from movies Star Wars to Captain America 3.

    End of story...
  3. MUPPETFAN1976

    MUPPETFAN1976 Well-Known Member

    I see your point. I give them credit for trying. It wasn't bad for not doing a show for almost 20 years and yes, they aired a pilot 2 months before its premiere. It would've been fine if they did it in like early to mid-June at the earliest. Now, what night would've been better? Let's see. Sunday wouldn't be a good night to air it because of the now-canceled series The Good Wife on CBS and Football on NBC. Then you have Thursday night with The Big Bang Theory on CBS and we know who would win that battle. Friday night might have worked if they hadn't put in Dr. Ken, but then again you have the death night of television. Wednesdays might have worked too, but they would have gone against Survivor, a show my parents watch every Wednesday night. Tuesday nights really didn't work for The Muppets. And the timeslot change only made it worse. Personally, I don't think they should've changed the timeslot. They were going up against The Voice so they knew they were going to lose anyway.
  4. Reevz1977

    Reevz1977 Well-Known Member

  5. WebMistressGina

    WebMistressGina Well-Known Member

    So I just saw the news about this and really, I'm not surprised and I know that some of you aren't either.

    However Dr Tooth is absolutely correct - if we're going to put blame on this, WE are the number one why this show didn't go anywhere and all we did was help it get cancelled. I don't believe the second point too much, cause if you've read fan fiction, you know that only a few people actually go with canon for the most part.

    But I am TOTALLY in a agreement with the first and third. I know that some of us tried to defend the show, but you go back and look at the comments for every episode and you'll see the majority of complaints are

    1. It's not the Muppet Show that I loved as a child
    2. I'm too sensitive to watch shows like South Park, American Dad, Family Guy and anything else that a normal person would watch and OMG, Kermit said the h-word and I gots the vapors! Dear heavens! *faints*

    I'm being a bit harsh, but that was essentially it. Now look, I'm not going to point fingers when I can't point them at myself - I personally think Michael Bay is single handedly ruining everything I loved about cartoons and for some reason, people continue throwing money at him and before it's over, he's going to be making a Care Bears movie and we're just gonna let him.

    With that said, unless something is so very horrible from the get go, I'll give a chance and obviously, if I'm a fan, I'll give it the ole college try before I decide if it's worth it or not. The Muppets, like other shows, struggled the first season. Not every show can knock it out of the park it's first season, but it was getting better.

    Look, if you want to relive the Muppet Show, there's this place called YouTube and it's on this thing called the Internet. You can pretty much watch every show, for free, on YouTube. If that doesn't work, there's this place called Amazon where you can exchange money for goods and services. Buy TMS on DVD.

    If language and unsightly things aren't your cup of tea, I believe there are cable channels that show nothing but Andy Griffith and Make Room for Daddy. And that's fine - in fact I take offense at you, Dr Tooth, cause the Golden Girls was an awesome show and I will defend it to the death. And the Golden Gs weren't just four women sitting around talking about sex (I think you're confusing this with that horrible Sex in the City show), it was about four women in their 60s+, living life and not holding the image of stereotypical grandmas who we just put in nursing homes to be rid of them.

    Back on point - yeah, so we're the number one cause of this. However, number 2 & 3 do go to Disney and ABC. DT is right - NO ONE is watching TV and if they are, we're certainly not watching local channels that much. Why would we when we've got Game of Thrones, Silicon Valley, Veep, Ray Donovan, Homeland, etc on HBO/Starz/Showtime and if that doesn't get you, there's House of Cards, OITNB, Transparent, and other great original shows on Netflix, Amazon, and Hulu.

    We just got cable again through my roommate's Playstation and it only comes with local channels on demand (correction, I guess we get Fox now), you know where I get my weekly local stuff?


    In fact, the reason we joined the cable portion because of sports - it's baseball and basketball season and to be honest, I was getting a little bored with Netflix (House of Cards is over you know). Now I'm not sure how many of us actually have cable - I'm guessing it's you parents or teens living at home or sports fans - but I haven't had cable for years before now.

    I honestly think, if the Muppets were to ever come back, they need to come back on Netflix. They've already proven that they can make excellent series for both adults and kids and they've done original movies from previous ones (like the CTHD sequel and the Pee Wee movie) - now, with that said, these movies are NOT as good as the original (though very few movies are), but I also think too much time passed, which is why they don't work.

    The Muppets would work so much better on Netflix - they aren't rushed for time, meaning that we could get the episodes that we want, it gives writers more time to go back to source material and get the characters right and then put them in the context of modern times. TM2011 is the perfect example - characters were in character, K&P were broken but willing to try again (without a publicity stunt), new characters were introduced without taking away from the core and still managed to be a part of the team, etc.

    Long rant short (too late) -
    • cancellation isn't that much of a surprise (not as much as fan fav Castle being cancelled)
    • When pointing fingers, make sure to point them to yourselves (me included)
    • No one has/watches local channels/cable
    • The Muppets need a comeback on mediums that ARE being watched and that's streaming - bring the movies back to Netflix, make a new original on Netflix which is in the same modern time, but has the heart of the show and movies that we love
  6. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Unless the network was willing to put it on Wednesday Night in between family sitcoms (where it was a terrible fit anyway), I doubt any other nights would have been great for The Muppets. Something I've been freaking saying since everyone was all like "They totally should be back on television and we'll definitely watch." In fact, they got the best possible night and slot they could have, unfortunately it was opposite the one NBC show audiences actually tuned in for. And then The Flash came and took its demo, and ...ehhh...I can't really complain about that. NCIS, The Voice, Grandfathered, New Girl...sure. All overrated crap shows ('cept for Grandfathered, but Fox pushed that to the end). But The Flash is something I'd watch had it not been for Fresh off the Boat. I'm seriously considering watching that next season, but I'm far behind.

    The Muppets never fared well on network TV unless it's a special. The original show was only picked up by syndication after 2 pilots, Jim Henson Hour confused the audience somehow (I guess the crap NBC tried in the late 80's made this show look waaaaay too sophisticated), and MT was shuffled around and treated like crap because it wasn't getting the same ratings as Boy Meets World (and frankly I still kinda hate that show for it). Forget the fact the audience was somehow disgusted and bemused that they wrote the show to not be for kids (family entertainment is a euphemism for kiddy show for the most part) and didn't sing Mahna Mahna a million times to Elmo in every episode. I have every reason to suspect that even if this was the 2016 Reboot of The Muppet Show, it wouldn't have lasted beyond a season anyway.

    Now, to be perfectly honest, it's not that it was cancelled that ticks me off, it was why and how it was cancelled that gets under my skin. It's almost as bad as how CN stealthily canned Uncle Grandpa. Now, I really like UG (for some reason), but even I feel that if it was to end soon, I wouldn't be too upset about it. There's only so much material that show can go over. It was going to get 5 seasons, which is respectable. But the fact that CN said "we've picked it up for 2 seasons" only to sneakily say "we're actually going to split the rest of the completed episodes into those seasons, suckers" was angering. If they outright said "we're wrapping production but we have enough material for 2 more seasons," it would have been understandable. But to pretty much Lucy and Football the fans? That was low. This is pretty bad too. They waited until the absolute last moment, months after the show ended, and then chopped it. AND while I can understand the show getting canned if they just did it within a week or two after that, I'd be disappointed, but at least it would have been a relief. We wouldn't have the frustrating months of suffering no news. But the thing that honks me off is this is just for the stock holders, which I mentioned.

    I'm not kidding. I was listening to the radio when they did the stock market report and mentioned Disney's stock was down specifically because of their television networks. Networks plural, they own too darn many of these and certain shows on other Disney networks got screwed (though none of the Teenage emo girl garbage on Freeform). Again, Star Wars and Marvel are a license to print money, they can easily recoup everything from television with T-shirt sales. But they decided to slash under-performing shows so some rich twit with his father's money doesn't lose a tiny bit of it. Cancelled for bad ratings, fine. TV producers don't have the patience that Seinfeld got. But to please glorified gamblers? That isn't just a cynical reason, it's the most cynical reason possible. If we're angry at anything on Disney's end, let it be them who simply aren't happy that Jungle Book didn't only not bomb, but was the number one film for 3 weeks until another one of their films pretty much pooped out thousand dollar bills.

    And frankly, as much as Disney cares about Marvel (remember, Marvel comics and Star Wars have fanbases infinitely bigger than the Muppets ever will have), the fact they killed one under-performing show and one show that didn't even make it to air proves how cynical this move was. Though this is the same Disney that gave "Lone Ranger" a chance even after the multiple factors and signs that said "you'll be freaking idiots if you even suggest this." And they were freaking right to cancel production the first time. So let that register. A crap movie that should NOT have been produced that bled red ink for years to come was given a chance, but a show (shows, really) that doesn't even come close to losing nearly that much was never given a second chance.

    (Laughs at the massive clearance of Tomorrowland Funko Pops).
  7. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Actually, I think that was taken the wrong way. I like those sassy gals too, especially Dorothy and Sophia. Everyone in my generation and the one just under it had a mother that watched it, that's why Betty White became a meme. My point is thus. Sexual situations have been the norm in most TV shows since the late 70's at least. I just find it weird that older sitcoms somehow are glossed over. But I think it's right to tell this story again.

    I was watching MeTv when they had that "viewer response" commercial where they were saying how wonderful it was that they brought back "clean" shows they can "watch with children" in the room.

    Just before the episode of Taxi where Latka had to have extramaritals with a woman to keep from freezing to death, all the while Simka was trying to have relations with Alex to balance it out.

    Yeah. Very "clean." :rolleyes:

    Personally, I find this show to be as adult as a second season Simpsons episode. As in incredibly safe, and kids won't get the innuendo. The other "family" sitcoms that air on ABC currently got away with a crapload more. But it's that imaginary contractual purity that got panties in a wad. That's why a ultra-far right organization that uses the word "moms" in it for that manipulative punch tried to ban the series. As in the same ones that flip the crap out everytime a gay couple is in a commercial.

    Still... I'm glad they toned that down in later episodes.

    But overall, it's the "this is different from the movie I remember watching at Grandma's house that I have a still shrink wrapped copy of in a closet that I didn't get to watch yet" from the casual fans that sunk the show. I'd tend to think that removing certain aspects of the Muppet fandom, there are enough that want them to do something different that they could have forgave things. I tend to think the casuals wouldn't have liked it much if it was The Muppet Show 2016 because of the "Wrong Sounding Muppets" and the fact that Cookie Monster wasn't there.
  8. WebMistressGina

    WebMistressGina Well-Known Member

    Again, this just bolsters my whole 'bring them to Netflix'. That's where your audience is. Superheroes are in, hence why we've got Arrow, Flash, Supergirl, Heroes of Tomorrow, etc cause the Avengers and X-Men are killing it (get a g*d **** CLUE, DC! This is how you do it RIGHT!)

    I'm willing to bet the shows that were performing awesomely probably included Rebels (star wars).

    Don't even get me started on this joke called the Jungle Book and I am totally blaming anyone who saw this movie or took your kid to it. You've now opened the door for live action ANYTHING that was originally a cartoon - the Lion King, Beauty & the Beast, etc. So thanks for ruining the first and second golden age of Disney. :mad:

    Back on point - TV big wigs are still trying to find ways to counter the rise of streaming and they are doing it anyway that keeps people watching. The problem with that is...this is not the 1960s where families gather around and watch TV together.

    We have these things called jobs and school, homework, kids, etc that keep us busy. I have cable now and I still managed to watch the recording of Archer this morning, even though I could have easily watched it last night. It didn't even occur to me. Now with that said, I'll still be about an hour or two behind the east coast when I watch Game of Thrones on Sunday, but again - I'm not watching it at the time it's on.

    HBO finally got the message that most people aren't watching at this particular time, especially for most of the Millennials, who have never had cable (or at least, maybe not since they were kids living at home), so they are probably watching on HBOGo (like we are)

    Here's another downside - so...Hulu, with its crappy player and commercials, has every episode of the Muppets, but ABC on demand, only has the last five. This is why I haven't even bothered with ABC OD; we were supposed to have ditched Hulu, but I haven't finished the season and as much as I hate it, its my go to for recent episodes.

    I'm fairly sure that even Once Upon a Time fans (or should I say, non Captain Swan fans) are reliving when the show was good on Netflix and certainly, that's where I plan to eventually stomach my way through seasons 4 and 5 (and probably 6 cause I'm done with this show), so there's your money ABC.

    The Muppets would be better served, as I mentioned earlier, by moving to streaming. Disney is gonna make money (is making a TON of money) this summer with Civil War and Apocalypse, along with the Rogue One movie and of course, Episodes 8 and 9, so it would behoove them to continuing putting classics on Netflix, while also developing shows on Netflix. If they want ad dollars, I'm sure they'll be fine with the new season of Rebels, as well as the new LEGO Star Wars that's coming, and whatever stupid teen show the kids are watching.
  9. WebMistressGina

    WebMistressGina Well-Known Member

    Dear lord, you're quick! LOL

    You know, after I re-read my response, I started thinking that maybe you were actually talking about Sex in the City and NOT the GGs, cause who can't get down with the Golden Gs?

    You know, that didn't make sense to me either. The Muppets have NEVER been for kids; in fact, wasn't that the whole reason for the show in the first place? That there wasn't anything that both kids and adults could enjoy??

    I love the fact that I get jokes now that I missed as a kid cause I'm an adult. And the Muppets are so very rewatchable, even 30 years after I've seen the movie.

    And maybe it's me - The Simpsons is as old as I am (if you count their beginnings on Tracy Ullman) and I remember how parents were so up in arms because Bart would say eat my shorts and was such a troublemaker. Of course, fast forward to college when South Park came out and parents lost their minds because violence in a cartoon - which FYI parents, not every cartoon is meant for kids. You actually wouldn't believe how many parents took their young child to the South Park movie.

    I don't see what the 'this isn't for kids' angle from the Muppets. Was it Kermit saying h-e- double l? The allusion that he and Denise were uh...co-promoting? I mean, what did you think Kermit and Piggy were doing in a big ole house together? Roommates? I freely admit that I wasn't happy about Kermit being with Denise, but it was more about their break up being a publicity stunt that was to get people to watch the show, which...fail.

    Gonzo and Camilla? Fozzie and Becky? Scooter trying for Chelsea Handler? What? As Bart and Lisa said, I'm a child of the 80s so I'm pretty desensitized to being scandalized (and I lived through the Bakers and Jennifer Flowers) so I seriously don't get this OMG, I can't enjoy the Muppets because my child doesn't understand every joke being told.

    Sooo...it's okay if Piggy's jumping Kermit from behind and trying to marry him under definite dubious intentions, but they can't live together and behave like a normal couple? It's fine for Gonzo to kinda feel up every female he runs into, but heaven forbid he does yoga with his girlfriend? I literally don't get that cause, if TMS was on now, it wouldn't make - either because it's not edgy enough or because it's taking liberties the conserves can't handle.
  10. Pig's Laundry

    Pig's Laundry Well-Known Member

    Perhaps streaming could save The Muppets. It saved The Mindy Project, Degrassi, Arrested Development, Community and several other shows after they were cancelled. I actually wouldn't be too surprised if Agent Carter got a second chance on Netflix or some other platform.
  11. Daffyfan4ever

    Daffyfan4ever Well-Known Member

    That's good hopefully the Kermit/Piggy finale will be 'splained, maybe during Steve and Eric's NY appearance. We'll see.
  12. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    To be perfectly honest, if this show were to somehow survive by streaming, I kinda want them to go another angle. Something (sigh) more familiar so that the uptight nostalgiaphiles will be on board. What I'd like to see is "Late Night with Miss Piggy" as the show. Keep the behind the scenes arcs in the show, but have them be more serialized. Plus, every episode could be a bottle episode, and if that keeps costs down, it wouldn't be so much of a gamble.

    Let's not forget Beavis and Butt-Head as well. Though, unlike SP and B&B, The Simpsons was marketed towards kids. Always has been, always will be no matter how adult the situations get, Simpsons toys and collectibles for kids will always pop up from time to time, along side adult collectors merchandise. As in they had a Back to School Burger King Promotion as recent as last year.

    The problem with those shows is that the satire of B&B and South Park wasn't really known by the general public then. B&B unfortunately gained the audience of the kind of kids that the show made fun of, and South Park was only known for little kids behaving badly in universe (which, the boys are frighteningly accurate to what 9 and 10 year olds were like when I was growing up). While B&B were always more subtle making fun of people the writers knew, South Park always managed to dig into social issues to the point where it's all about social issues and commentary the past decade and a half.

    When it comes to The Muppets, I tend to think the problem was that the writers were trying to balance adult situations and humor with more family friendly fare. And by adult, I don't mean parodying a format of entertainment that was parody of parody by the time it aired. Between that and the balance of trying to mesh the adult production behind the scenes subjects and Muppet humor, this show really had a learning curve. Which makes the cancellation all the more frustrating. First seasons are usually weak overall because characters don't have the room to grow and flourish and the show never gets too far past the establishment phase. When you can play with what the show establishes, then you hit it. The show almost hit it. Another season could have made something special. It would have been great had they gave it enough room. They didn't. Show was rushed to production, the writers thought they wrote something that would resonate, and it didn't.
  13. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    At the risk of being the, "I told you so," Guy, I told you guys this whole, #RenewTheMuppets thing wouldn't work. Networks DON'T listen to people. . . they don't ... if they did, there wouldn't be half the garbage on today that there is: networks don't care about quality anymore, they're all about the money and the numbers. Apparently sex is the only thing bringing that in for the networks.
  14. Pig's Laundry

    Pig's Laundry Well-Known Member

    Um, no. Most of ABC's popular comedies don't even have much to do with sex. Sure the subject of sex is occasionally hinted at, but it's rarely a major plot point. Modern Family, Blackish, Fresh Off the Boat, The Middle, The Goldbergs, none of these shows are about sex. If you even watched one single episode of any of these shows you would know that.
  15. Pig's Laundry

    Pig's Laundry Well-Known Member

    That's one of the things I enjoy so much about ABC. They always try to make shows that the whole family can watch.
  16. charlietheowl

    charlietheowl Well-Known Member

    Disney's stock is being hammered partially because of ESPN losing money. They paid big-time money for all sorts of rights packages and now with people cutting the cable cord, they're beginning to have to pinch pennies there. A handful of big-name sports personalities have left there and the network is clearly re-structuring things. Which makes me more surprised they didn't keep the Muppets for another season since it's not like it's an outside property that they had to go out and acquire to develop. It was in-house and shouldn't have been something that would be ultra-exorbitant.

    Anyway, the same thing will happen to Fox in 2-3 years. They're sinking huge money into Fox Sports 1, paying hand over fist for golf and stuff, and like 5 people watch their network daily.
  17. backpackmina

    backpackmina Well-Known Member

    Families still do that?
  18. Pig's Laundry

    Pig's Laundry Well-Known Member

    Well, families don't watch TV together as much as they used to but ABC still has shows that people of any age can watch.
  19. dwayne1115

    dwayne1115 Well-Known Member

    I have an idea...A few years ago I started a thread on here called " What do the Muppets mean to you?"
    The stories that where shared would tug at anyone's heart.
    The idea is to print them off and send them to The Jim Henson Company The Muppet Studios and ABC. Now I know that this will do nothing to help put the show back on the air, but it wikk show that Muppet fans are not just any kind of fan base, it will show that they are special. Now if you've posted in this thread great, but if you have not and would like to here is a link.


    This may also help the folks who worked so hard on the show. It may give them a better sense of purpose.
    I will give folks a week to post on the thread befor drafting out the letter. So let's show them what the Muppets truly mean to us.
    Pig's Laundry and backpackmina like this.
  20. Muppet Master

    Muppet Master Well-Known Member

    I honestly wish they had never greenlighted the show, it was such an awful experience seeing the ratings decline and decline, people constantly bashing the show online and everywhere calling it "the awful muppet reboot", it was just sad to watch it all unfold and for what, a cancellation so ABC could make room for this.


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