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ABC's 'The Muppets' Scores Full-Season Pickup

Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by Phillip, Oct 29, 2015.

  1. WebMistressGina

    WebMistressGina Well-Known Member

    Heard about this and it looks positive. Also just saw the promo for the next episode - The Ex-Factor (btw, I haven't seen a thread about it, so my thoughts here) - and as I mentioned to Count Ed, this is probably the episode I think I was looking forward to, just from the promo.

    We've got a discussion in the fan fic thread in regards to Denise, who finally after five episodes, shows back up in the guise of Kermit's girlfriend. I really, really, REALLY hope this episode will be both Piggy and Kermit's turn around when it comes to showing some emotion that isn't anger or pettiness.

    I agree with Reevz1977 - characters in this are kinda putting me off, especially Piggy, whose divaness seems to be hitting the ceiling. She's a jerk with a heart of gold, but I've yet to see the gold (other than their karaoke night, which was engineered by Kermit), so I'm hoping if it involves Kermit - even if it means she has to bow out somewhat gracefully - she can at least grant him his happiness.

    Not that I think K+D are going to last - I eagerly look forward to that breakup - but I'm hoping K+P aren't going to be at each other's throats kinda like they are now. Maybe it's still too soon for both of them, but I'm hoping next episode is the turning point.
  2. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Bingo. And I've one too many many fans online (not here) cheering on this Kermit because "Oh Piggy is such a *****." That's not what Kermit or Piggy have ever been about. But I don't blame those fans for thinking that with the way these characters are being portrayed. Maybe it is more modern. And if it is, well shame on all of us, lol.

    I had another Muppets nightmare the other day. The first one was after seeing VMX awhile back. Sorry, guys, I just do not trust this new show, lol.
  3. WebMistressGina

    WebMistressGina Well-Known Member

    Yeah, as some people have mentioned, this show seems to be bringing out the worse Muppet traits - stuff we probably all knew internally, but didn't really want to see. I'm okay with that - certainly, Piggy's been called on her BS before - however, she hasn't really been called to the carpet in this show (as of yet).

    I'm down two episodes again, not for lack of trying. Hulu's player is THE WORST and I'm seriously hoping Netflix picks up the first season so I can actually watch it with no commercial or video interruptions.

    Anyway, K+P dynamic does not work on the classic lovey dovey couple. They aren't the Clevers or the Wards or the Stones; if anything, I'd think they were really more like Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton, with less violence and less alcohol; in fact, it's a comparison I've made numerous times over in Fan Fic. Probably a more modern Desi and Lucy for the comedy set.

    Piggy has *****y qualities, but she's not. She has the same issues most women have when they're outspoken and not easily intimidated; that's called strong willed and not 'that time of month'. I also think Miss Piggy is just an overblown version of Piggy, and sometimes when you've got a persona everyone respects, you don't want to go back to the one they might not.

    I think last episode showed that Piggy's got insecurities and she's still stinging from Kermit breaking up with her and just moving on, while she hasn't really.

    K+P work because they're equals - they're never afraid to tell each other how they feel or think on a subject, even if it isn't what the other person wants. Ironically, especially with this new episode, I'd really like to see them working together and showing WHY they work so well together. Shows and movies have always shown what happens when they argue and how they apologize and come back together, but I can't really remember a moment in which they are actively working together, just the two of them, and then winning in the end.

    Fingers crossed on that.
  4. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    That's an interesting observation! Well the thing, Piggy never really actively works with anyone, let alone Kermit. She's a tough cookie and can handle things by herself and clearly prefers it that way. Kermit's contribution is that he knows to stay out of her way, lol.

    I don't know, starting with The Muppets (2011) it feels like the writers have been trying to make Piggy more of a traditional female character with her hurt feelings in full display. That's not Piggy at all. Off the top of my head, I'm reminded of The Fantastic Miss Piggy Show where Piggy manages to **** off Kermit, but can't quite articulate an apology in time and is just left alone with her guilt and fear that she's really gone too far. She doesn't start crying. Piggy doesn't cry. The way Oz performs her in that moment, it's more like she's bitterly biting her lip before it can happen. I will always feel for Piggy in that moment.

    Piggy has always been a feminist icon. But this show, and also the press lately (they know who they are), clearly have no idea why. And their attempts at showing it are at best amateur, at worse downright offensive. Are there any grown ups in show biz anymore?

    The Muppets were already mature. It kinda makes me chuckle that anyone involved in this new show thinks they're breaking new ground here by saying "Oh God." :insatiable:
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2015
  5. WebMistressGina

    WebMistressGina Well-Known Member

    Well, I think the others are more likely to send her out on their behalf, though definitely Kermit would finalize that order. LOL

    Piggy is very much her own woman, who can step to the plate when needed. M11 is a perfect example - when Kermit walks off, throwing in the towel, it's Piggy who rallies the troops. Granted, Piggy's way is never the...diplomatic solution, but desperate times.

    I guess I'd like to see a situation where Kermit is determined to do something and he needs Piggy's help, to the point where he is actively pushing her to do what needs to be done to make whatever they need work. In that, I can very much see Kermit as the brains and Piggy as the beautiful brawn.

    I. Have. NEVER. heard of this show and I now need to find this wonderfulness.

    But I agree. Piggy is not a crier - in front of other people - but I do think she wears her heart on her sleeve at some points. She's not as cold as people think she is and honestly, I think Kermit was the first person to see that and then the others, however they aren't 100% convinced of that (I'd like to think they're on board at 80-90% after all this time)

    Yeah. That has been a constant in most of the 'against' of the show - Piggy has been seriously 'overcorrected'; I don't think she's been 'Flandered' yet, but it does seem like she's going down that road. It's not just Piggy - Fozzie's doing it too and Kermit they just over overcorrected.

    Adults in Hollywood? You're talking about the same people who keep making the same movie over and over again, rebooting reboots, and churning out sequel after sequel. The problem isn't Hollywood; it's us, the viewing audience who continue to allow this to happen. Hollywood doesn't have a good track record on remakes or sequels, but we continue to throw money at it, hoping we'll get something good. We never do.

    Someone (here? Think so) mentioned that it would take something huge to get Kermit to find himself wanting Piggy back and I really think that something is going to hinge on Denise - there isn't anything to this relationship, really, though I am hoping this will kick Kermit in the pants.

    Something is going to come to a head with Denise - either an 'it's me or her' or showing Kermit that he truly is a bad boyfriend, regardless who he dates, but it's going to be something that will hopefully get Kermit to grow up a little. I hope when K+P DO get back together, it's not quick; as difficult as it will be, I'm hoping when Kermit is finally single, Piggy isn't and he has to do what he should've done before -

    Prove to Piggy that he indeed loves her like he 'says' he does.
    CensoredAlso likes this.
  6. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    If there's one thing I really hated in some of the first Post-Jim Muppet projects it's that Kermit was slowly becoming a Stepford Smiler which came to an obnoxious head in MFS where (and the trillionth time I said this) he could have been completely taken out of the movie and it still wouldn't have changed. There were a couple classically Kermit moments in some episodes of MT, but to me, real Kermit didn't return until VMX. It vanished again with the...ahem...next project, only to see some interesting choices in TM and MMW.

    I appreciate that they're trying to play the character different here. I like the idea of him being a nervous wreck, beaten down by years of having to deal with crazies and Piggy, all the while juggling feelings of working with someone who meant so much to him. It's the same way I appreciated how he was portrayed in TM, that he can't possibly keep up the Happy Go Lucky when he's feeling hopeless.

    As with Piggy, it's pretty obvious that no matter what the show or the project, they're just going to hammer home the "she's a diva" oversimplification. I mean, her signature song somehow turned into "Santa Baby" in the past 10 years. Singing it in one special is one thing, but it's on the soundtrack, another special... a toy sang it. A Miss Piggy toy sang the darn thing. But I appreciate that they're doing something with it here. I don't see any other Muppet programming choice doing anything but just flopping about with the same Piggy schtick. I'd just see the worst of the Reese Witherspoon episode without the brilliant payoff. All played painfully straight. I don't blame the performer for that, it just seems that the writers (even the ones that "get" them) think that's what the public wants.

    My issue with the show is, they're clearly building something up, but like most modern shows they had the difficult balancing act of not playing things out too quickly that you run out of tension and plot well before the season (and by extension, the ideas) concludes and not dragging things out so frustratingly slow that the audience ceases caring. Funny thing considering some of ABC's failed sitcoms. The Baseball series? Are we going to have the characters win early and thus risk losing their underdog status, or are they going to continuously lose for seasons to come? Super Fun Night? Were they going to come out of their shells early on in the series and risk the awkwardness that made the characters the way they were, or would they all suffer massive setbacks every weak, thus being repetitive? Selfie? Would the woman continue to be self centered and be repetitive, or would she be refined too soon? Those shows were all canned after one short season, and it became painfully obvious those shows would have worked better as films. Then you have something like Heroes that depleted its concept midway through season 2, and that just couldn't get back to what was so special about season 1 to the point it was a joke by season 4.

    That's the problem with the show right there. No doubt Piggy and Kermit are the way they are due to major character arcs that will have a satisfying payoff. Problem is, if that pay off comes too soon or too late, the show falls apart. We know that they're going to get back together at some point. That's how storytelling goes. There are hints here and there that they knew the break up was a mistake, and both of them are acting out as simple transference. And I think that if they let enough continuity creep back in (we had some last episode) the show will feel a bit sturdier. It's a delicate balance and we're only about 5 episodes in. They seem to be trying to make the show continuity heavy yet episodic and they just don't have the perfect balance yet. At least we know there's 11 more episodes to get it right, and maybe if they find it soon enough, it'll get a renewal.

    Other than that, my other issue is that they're trying to get too much into the series, and sometimes the A or B plot suffers due to not being fleshed out at the expense of a short C plot. There's too many characters to play with in this format, even with a streamlined cast. Plus, the nature of the show sees Piggy and Kermit being the focus A plot of the episode 4/5ths of the time (the only other time was the Fozzie writing plot line). I'd love to see other characters get the A-Plot, Maybe get Gonzo to be a little more Gonzo-y if he gets some more screen time. Have more of the story take place completely outside of the show and work setting. Those outside stories are the one thing I think this show actually has over the other Muppet TV shows (though, not for the lack of trying on MT's part, but it came too late for them). I really like this show and I think it has a lot of potential, it's just hard to catch that potential 5 episodes in of anything.
    LaRanaRene and mr3urious like this.
  7. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    This reminds me of the Man of Steel debate. Some fans were inspired by seeing an angsty and uncertain Superman. Others felt like their hero's spirit had been utterly gutted and replaced with someone else's.
  8. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Um, well, it's not a series, it's a special (you'll get that joke once you watch it ;)).

    You couldn't be more right. :)

    I admit I would like to see this particular Kermit taken down a few pegs like that, hehe.
  9. Sgt Floyd

    Sgt Floyd Well-Known Member

    so i finally got around to watching the show and I agree with the others saying they aren't too impressed by it.

    For me though, it's not so much the way the characters are portrayed (though I'm not sure I really like how Fozzie is turning out, and I feel like overall the characters seemed to have been made unnecessarily dumb), but just the writing of the show in general. The humor just isn't there for me. I'm not a fan of modern sitcoms, which I think this show is trying to imitate, and the Muppets using modern sitcom comedy/tropes doesn't sit right with me, if only because, again, I'm not a fan of modern sitcoms or their type of humor.

    It's certainly not an awful show but I do have to wonder who the main target audience is, because I feel like they are trying to straddle the line between old time fans and appealing to a new 'modern' fanbase who probably doesn't know who the muppets are, and its unintentionally alienating one side or the other.

    But yeah, this is just me. I'm still glad they are giving the muppets a chance, and I'm really glad to see Uncle Deadly getting some use.
    CensoredAlso likes this.
  10. dwayne1115

    dwayne1115 Well-Known Member

    Yes Uncle Deadly and Scooter are kind of the breakout characters of this show,which I'm happy for.

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