And America Continues to Show it's True Colors. . .

[D'Snowth]

White Supremacists are accusing this how of promoting non-existent "white genocide."

https://www.inverse.com/article/276...ebook&utm_medium=inverse&utm_campaign=organic

And who were among Trump's biggest supports? White Supremacists.

 

[jvcarroll]

[Disclaimer to those who are not aware, I am making an extra effort at civility. It is my purpose to tackle difficult topics, not attack people. It's easy to fall to that. Most everyone in these discussions (if we're all being being complete honest) has definitely done that and I am no different. Hence, this disclaimer. My best friends in the world are actually not people who think like me. On the contrary, we have lively debates, but the love remains. That's how we all get better and that never stops being a necessity.]

Jon Stewart recently summed up America's race issue best. Are there racists? Sure! Lots. But not every race issue is racism. Our primal nature is rooted in tribalism. Growing up as an adopted kid, I never understood tribalism. It seemed so bizarre and arbitrary. I gravitated toward intelligent and caring people who shared a common interest, something amazing that was foreign to me or somebody with a need that I could help. I was a Texan, so skin color, religion, orientation were all definitely issues around me. They just never were important to me. However, I understand a degree of tribalism among races and like-minded people.

We all grow up in out own, unique, particular environment and that can easily become a bubble. I was born with the longing to search outside of that and did. The things I said to my parents as precocious child often left them red faced and awkward. How does a parent explain the lack of diversity in every aspect of their children's life to them? There's no simple answer. In fact, people should fear anyone with easy answers - particularly politicians who use cheap and easy slogans.

America is special in that we have the most diverse population in the world and we actually handle it a lot better than most other countries. There's a lot of prejudice in Britain, Italy and France. It's just not discussed because, well, people more often maintain a sense of tribalism elsewhere. That's not so easy in a melting pot.

This in no way lets people off the hook. But it does explain some things. I have a friend who likes to people watch and make up creative stories about them. It's a fun exercise, but at some point, in order to become a better person, we've all got to approach a person, politely introduce ourselves and ask about them instead assuming things. That's how we connect. It takes some bravery and humility. At times that's easy for me, other times it can be tough, but it's almost always worth while.

That being said, I believe Trump used the old playbook of divide and conquer. Progressives have always had a tough time because the cause it to be so much to so many people. The GOP is much simpler, but excludes a lot of people by its very nature. This not a debatable point. It only takes an internet click to read their platform, particularly about the LGBT, to understand that. It's not that they simply disagree. They'd still like to marginalize gay people in many aspects of life. This is one of many examples.

There's power in numbers, and progressives have them, but it's so easy to exploit petty differences to turn people against each other in order to yank the rug out from under them. Trump's team wasn't subtle about this. They did it masterfully. No modern successful candidate has been so beloved and adored by neo-Nazi's and white supremacists as Donald J. Trump. That is no accident! But racism is not the Trump administration's ultimate goal. It's a tool. While we're all rightfully worried about social politics, he's sold our nation to the very people he warned his followers that Hillary Clinton would - Billionaire Goldman Sachs executives. This has such far reaching implications. The only way to get a the hardworking men and women to vote against their interest is to give them a scapegoat to hate. This year, the GOP provided immigrants, LGBT people, Muslims Blacks and Hispanics. That's a cornucopia of options for hate. But hey, it's human nature.

Donald Trump has pretty much sucked at everything he's tried except for three areas: stamping his name on things that he didn't really make or build, bilking money out of people and showmanship. Bill Clinton was the showman, and aside from actually being capable at his job, demonstrated some of the same bad behavior as Trump. Hillary, on the other hand, has almost zero charisma. That's just a fact. That, the three-decades-attack on her character and her inability to answer a direct question are the reasons she lost to Trump. Well, that and it still seems that men can get away with almost anything while women can get away with nothing.

So, yeah. There's much racism, anger and bigotry that's driving people, but that's the distraction. It's not the endgame. This country is going to have to learn from this hard mistake. Sometimes things have to get better before they get worse. I remember with G.W.Bush made marriage equality into the boogieman for his successful 2004 campaign. Approximately a decade later, most thinking people don't really care. I hope we have to wisdom to hurry up before things get too bad. I also hope both parties put someone better on their tickets next time out. We deserve the best. We rarely get it in our candidates.

And that's my soapbox for the day. It actually comes from a person who's voted in two presidential elections for republicans in the past. One I regret. One I do not. I just call stuff like I see it and I have a lot of different voices with a lot of different backgrounds from me that factor into my beliefs. That even sometimes happens here. /peace

--EDIT- The racist argument about black-on-black crime should also be called out for what it is. The truth is most violence and crime is also tribal. White-on-white crime is about as prevalent as black-on-black crime. Speaking about one, while omitting the other, is racist. That's no point anyone here was making. I've just heard it a lot in recent months.

 

[Oscarfan]

Well said.

I'm not sure how much I buy into this whole "Trump scammed you" thing. He's not a smart guy, it's pretty obvious. There's no way he looked at our broken system and knew the right ways to become in charge of it. He's not clever enough.

 

[MuppetsRule]

White Supremacists are accusing this how of promoting non-existent "white genocide."

https://www.inverse.com/article/276...ebook&utm_medium=inverse&utm_campaign=organic

And who were among Trump's biggest supports? White Supremacists.

Just because a small segment of President Trump's supporters are white supremacists does not make all of President Trump's supporters racist. And yet you continue to assert that. It's wrong. I'd have a lot more respect for your posts if you would quit making broad generalizations

 

[MuppetsRule]

[Disclaimer to those who are not aware, I am making an extra effort at civility. It is my purpose to tackle difficult topics, not attack people. It's easy to fall to that. Most everyone in these discussions (if we're all being being complete honest) has definitely done that and I am no different. Hence, this disclaimer. My best friends in the world are actually not people who think like me. On the contrary, we have lively debates, but the love remains. That's how we all get better and that never stops being a necessity.]

Jon Stewart recently summed up America's race issue best. Are there racists? Sure! Lots. But not every race issue is racism. Our primal nature is rooted in tribalism. Growing up as an adopted kid, I never understood tribalism. It seemed so bizarre and arbitrary. I gravitated toward intelligent and caring people who shared a common interest, something amazing that was foreign to me or somebody with a need that I could help. I was a Texan, so skin color, religion, orientation were all definitely issues around me. They just never were important to me. However, I understand a degree of tribalism among races and like-minded people.

We all grow up in out own, unique, particular environment and that can easily become a bubble. I was born with the longing to search outside of that and did. The things I said to my parents as precocious child often left them red faced and awkward. How does a parent explain the lack of diversity in every aspect of their children's life to them? There's no simple answer. In fact, people should fear anyone with easy answers - particularly politicians who use cheap and easy slogans.

America is special in that we have the most diverse population in the world and we actually handle it a lot better than most other countries. There's a lot of prejudice in Britain, Italy and France. It's just not discussed because, well, people more often maintain a sense of tribalism elsewhere. That's not so easy in a melting pot.

This in no way lets people off the hook. But it does explain some things. I have a friend who likes to people watch and make up creative stories about them. It's a fun exercise, but at some point, in order to become a better person, we've all got to approach a person, politely introduce ourselves and ask about them instead assuming things. That's how we connect. It takes some bravery and humility. At times that's easy for me, other times it can be tough, but it's almost always worth while.

That being said, I believe Trump used the old playbook of divide and conquer. Progressives have always had a tough time because the cause it to be so much to so many people. The GOP is much simpler, but excludes a lot of people by its very nature. This not a debatable point. It only takes an internet click to read their platform, particularly about the LGBT, to understand that. It's not that they simply disagree. They'd still like to marginalize gay people in many aspects of life. This is one of many examples.

There's power in numbers, and progressives have them, but it's so easy to exploit petty differences to turn people against each other in order to yank the rug out from under them. Trump's team wasn't subtle about this. They did it masterfully. No modern successful candidate has been so beloved and adored by neo-Nazi's and white supremacists as Donald J. Trump. That is no accident! But racism is not the Trump administration's ultimate goal. It's a tool. While we're all rightfully worried about social politics, he's sold our nation to the very people he warned his followers that Hillary Clinton would - Billionaire Goldman Sachs executives. This has such far reaching implications. The only way to get a the hardworking men and women to vote against their interest is to give them a scapegoat to hate. This year, the GOP provided immigrants, LGBT people, Muslims Blacks and Hispanics. That's a cornucopia of options for hate. But hey, it's human nature.

Donald Trump has pretty much sucked at everything he's tried except for three areas: stamping his name on things that he didn't really make or build, bilking money out of people and showmanship. Bill Clinton was the showman, and aside from actually being capable at his job, demonstrated some of the same bad behavior as Trump. Hillary, on the other hand, has almost zero charisma. That's just a fact. That, the three-decades-attack on her character and her inability to answer a direct question are the reasons she lost to Trump. Well, that and it still seems that men can get away with almost anything while women can get away with nothing.

So, yeah. There's much racism, anger and bigotry that's driving people, but that's the distraction. It's not the endgame. This country is going to have to learn from this hard mistake. Sometimes things have to get better before they get worse. I remember with G.W.Bush made marriage equality into the boogieman for his successful 2004 campaign. Approximately a decade later, most thinking people don't really care. I hope we have to wisdom to hurry up before things get too bad. I also hope both parties put someone better on their tickets next time out. We deserve the best. We rarely get it in our candidates.

And that's my soapbox for the day. It actually comes from a person who's voted in two presidential elections for republicans in the past. One I regret. One I do not. I just call stuff like I see it and I have a lot of different voices with a lot of different backgrounds from me that factor into my beliefs. That even sometimes happens here. /peace

--EDIT- The racist argument about black-on-black crime should also be called out for what it is. The truth is most violence and crime is also tribal. White-on-white crime is about as prevalent as black-on-black crime. Speaking about one, while omitting the other, is racist. That's no point anyone here was making. I've just heard it a lot in recent months.

Thank you Jamie. Although I agree with most of this (but not 100% of it), I can respect the fact that it is a well thought out and expressed perspective. It's much more than copying and pasting and regurgitating others' opinions. This is what we need more of in order to have an honest and productive discussion of race relations or politics or whatever it may be to come to an understanding of others.

 

[dwayne1115]

Just because a small segment of President Trump's supporters are white supremacists does not make all of President Trump's supporters racist. And yet you continue to assert that. It's wrong. I'd have a lot more respect for your posts if you would quit making broad generalizations

Do you have something against D'Snowth? Sure I might not agree with everything he says, but you seem to want to make sure that he and everyone else knows that he is wrong.

 

[MuppetsRule]

Do you have something against D'Snowth? Sure I might not agree with everything he says, but you seem to want to make sure that he and everyone else knows that he is wrong.

Sorry if it comes across that way. Only thing I have against D'snowth is his constantly lumping all of President Trump's supporters (or Republicans) into one category. When he uses terms like, "That's what all of you do: you guys say and do these racist things . . . " I take offense to that. We need to stop treating President Trump supporters as a monolithic group. I'm a Trump supporter but that doesn't make me a racist. Or sexist. Or whatever other charge thrown around. I see many flaws with President Trump. Doesn't mean I agree with him on those. But I am hopeful that he can make a difference in every-day middle class Americans lives. The politicians in Washington (on both sides) seem to have forgotten who they serve. You can agree or disagree with me on that as to whether Trump is the person to accomplish that and I can respect that. But when he lumps all of Trump supporters or Republicans in to a one dimensional group that is diminishing me and everybody else that feels the same way. It's not accepting or respecting mine or our point of view.

 

[jvcarroll]

[Another disclaimer: Please excuse the poor grammar, spelling and syntax in my previous post. I kind of typed it out quickly and passionately without really proofing it, something I rarely do. Kind of glad I did it that way because the raw nature of it seems to have come through. Yay, that!]

Well said.

I'm not sure how much I buy into this whole "Trump scammed you" thing. He's not a smart guy, it's pretty obvious. There's no way he looked at our broken system and knew the right ways to become in charge of it. He's not clever enough.

I get that. People throw around "smart" and "genius" too much when trying to simply describe a person with a certain knack or skill. It takes little intelligence to recognize how people respond to patterns of behavior. Every child knows how to push their parents' buttons to get what they want. That's what Trump did. No more, no less. Whether or not he's in control of the show is debatable. I think, at least partially, he's being used by others for their own motives. He's not a clever guy. But yeah, he's got one heck of a knack for publicity. It's awful sometimes, but it works. Eugh.

He was never as terrible as he is now until he began taping the Apprentice. He instantly recognized how people responded to his cruel behavior toward others and his firing of people. It is at this point that everything changed for him and he let the genie out of the bottle. He's been using this same game plan since that point. I just wonder how long it'll be until the majority of his supporters become impatient with that garbage. People can say what they will, but he is not a dignified person and such antics do not belong in the most powerful seat in the world. Period.

Thank you Jamie. Although I agree with most of this (but not 100% of it), I can respect the fact that it is a well thought out and expressed perspective. It's much more than copying and pasting and regurgitating others' opinions. This is what we need more of in order to have an honest and productive discussion of race relations or politics or whatever it may be to come to an understanding of others.

Thanks so much. I really appreciate that. And if I come across as arrogant here, well, that part is unfortunately true, but not personal. It's how my friends and I talk politics. The one with the best ideas wins. But really, what is winning when they're miffed at you for the rest of the night? Ha! Sorry if any of that got to you earlier. I'm actually one of kindest fellas that a person could meet. But I am authentic and I own the irritating parts of my personality as well. I'm working on some of that, as we all should. The one thing I hate the most is hating people. I just can't do it. It's such a waste of time and energy. I seldom forget things, but I don't do grudges. I'm absolutely incapable of it.

I have so many progressive friends who don't operate the same way that I do. There are Trump people in my life and I'll debate them toe-to-toe, but I still friggin love them to death. The main point that bothers me is the amount of white supremacists that openly love Trump and how reluctant Trump is to address that. He's briefly spoke about it, but in a begrudging way. He wants their support, but not their stink. I'd think twice about supporting anyone like that. I also believe that most of his policies are terrible for anyone who's not white, male or wealthy.

I can't comprehend all the hate that went Hillary's way. I believe a lot of it, but not all of it, is sexist. It never stuck to Bill, but everything sticks to her - even his cheating. No matter how one feels about her politics or many other areas of her life, that one point should bug all of us. Everyone looked down on her more for supporting her husband through tough times, for taking him back, for not being as visibly upset by it. It's an impossible position. There's a lot of criticism I can throw her way, but I admire her strength.

I'm not sure what part of what I said is the stuff you don't particularly agree with, but I do appreciate the open mind. I'm seldom 100% correct about anything. I thought Hillary had this locked-up, so to speak, but woah! I was so wrong. Well, not by the popular vote. In fact, my opinion is often altered by new evidence. I certainly think racism is a big problem in this country and for the GOP. Heck, it was a problem for the DNC too. They still have no clue how to talk to the Black Lives Matter people. That's tough.

I just think that every moment presents an opportunity for all of us to do better and to be better to each other. It doesn't have to be a lot. Just a little bit. A change of heart or perspective. That's what I hope for in this country. That all of us have a little bit of that. There are issues where we must stand our ground, but there's a lot of coming together we can do. The thing that's most irksome to me is that Trump is the last guy who'd ever extend an olive branch to others. If there's one word that best describes him, it's fickle. He loves people who love him and agrees with people who agree with him, but the moment a fraction of that changes - they go on the enemy list. I don't see much progress being made that way. I think we're about to see Spicer and Conway fall on their swords for his mistakes soon. That'll be interesting to watch. His cabinet will be in constant fear. That's a bad spot. I don't envy any of them.

 

[MuppetsRule]

Thanks so much. I really appreciate that. And if I come across as arrogant here, well, that part is unfortunately true, but not personal. It's how my friends and I talk politics. The one with the best ideas wins. But really, what is winning when they're miffed at you for the rest of the night? Ha! Sorry if any of that got to you earlier. I'm actually one of kindest fellas that a person could meet. But I am authentic and I own the irritating parts of my personality as well. I'm working on some of that, as we all should. The one thing I hate the most is hating people. I just can't do it. It's such a waste of time and energy. I seldom forget things, but I don't do grudges. I'm absolutely incapable of it.

I don't have any problem with you Jamie. Your points are well reasoned and based on your real life experiences. They are refreshing to read rather than just the political talking points fed to us by various websites. I wish more would take the time to think critically about the issues rather than believe everything they read. Rarely are policies black and white. There are many gray areas in political policy. They can't be boiled down to a sentence or two of talking points.

I have so many progressive friends who don't operate the same way that I do. There are Trump people in my life and I'll debate them toe-to-toe, but I still friggin love them to death. The main point that bothers me is the amount of white supremacists that openly love Trump and how reluctant Trump is to address that. He's briefly spoke about it, but in a begrudging way. He wants their support, but not their stink. I'd think twice about supporting anyone like that. I also believe that most of his policies are terrible for anyone who's not white, male or wealthy.

I do agree with you here. There do seem to be a lot of white supremacists that love Trump. But you don't make it a point to label your friends or other Trump supporters racists because of it. And I agree. I wish that Trump would put a squash to it but I'm not sure it would do any good anyway. Those types of people are irrational and I'm not sure a message from Trump would change any of their behavior. But I also felt that President Obama should have spoken up more against the targeting of police and the violent protests. Not the protests, but the violent ones that resulted in riots. I'm not sure those people would have listened to President Obama either though. I think in both cases they are afraid of upsetting their base and maybe recognized that it wouldn't have made a difference. As far as his policies benefiting anyone who's not white, male or wealthy I have a different perspective. I guess time will tell. But I'm willing to give him more than 3 weeks before I make any judgements. But I'm usually optimistic by nature and tend to see the good in people rather than the bad. Maybe I'm just being blind to reality. Wouldn't be the first time. Take for instance his position on trade. It is very much in-line with Bernie Sanders. I think it will benefit the middle class worker but it is a fine line to walk. Does he have the skill to do it? We'll see.

I can't comprehend all the hate that went Hillary's way. I believe a lot of it, but not all of it, is sexist. It never stuck to Bill, but everything sticks to her - even his cheating. No matter how one feels about her politics or many other areas of her life, that one point should bug all of us. Everyone looked down on her more for supporting her husband through tough times, for taking him back, for not being as visibly upset by it. It's an impossible position. There's a lot of criticism I can throw her way, but I admire her strength.

I'm not going to deny that sexism exists but I don't think it played a significant role in Hillary's loss. She just ran a terrible campaign and took many things for granted. I can't tell you how many times I heard from female friends or co-workers that said "I wish she would give me something other than vote for me because I'm a woman." As far as things not sticking to Teflon Bill and sticking to her. Totally different personalities. He's very likable and can turn on the charm. She's not very likeable and when she does try turning on the charm it comes across as very forced. I have a friend that is secret service. He's had the privilege to guard President Bush, the elder. Word among the agency was that Hillary was not a likeable person, at all. It was seen as a punishment to be assigned to her.

I'm not sure what part of what I said is the stuff you don't particularly agree with, but I do appreciate the open mind. I'm seldom 100% correct about anything. I thought Hillary had this locked-up, so to speak, but woah! I was so wrong. Well, not by the popular vote. In fact, my opinion is often altered by new evidence. I certainly think racism is a big problem in this country and for the GOP. Heck, it was a problem for the DNC too. They still have no clue how to talk to the Black Lives Matter people. That's tough.

Most of what you posted I agreed with. Particularly when it comes to Trumps personality and make-up. We probably disagree on some of his policies. Agree on some as well. I'm not as critical of his cabinet as you are. While it is stocked with former Goldman Sachs executives I don't necessarily see that as a negative. First, I think any president is going to surround himself with people he has worked with and trusts. 2nd, I don't necessarily think that having wealthy people in the cabinet is a bad thing. I think you have to evaluate each pick on their merits, regardless of whether they were Goldman Sachs employees or not. Being a successful person isn't a bad thing.

I just think that every moment presents an opportunity for all of us to do better and to be better to each other. It doesn't have to be a lot. Just a little bit. A change of heart or perspective. That's what I hope for in this country. That all of us have a little bit of that. There are issues where we must stand our ground, but there's a lot of coming together we can do. The thing that's most irksome to me is that Trump is the last guy who'd ever extend an olive branch to others. If there's one word that best describes him, it's fickle. He loves people who love him and agrees with people who agree with him, but the moment a fraction of that changes - they go on the enemy list. I don't see much progress being made that way. I think we're about to see Spicer and Conway fall on their swords for his mistakes soon. That'll be interesting to watch. His cabinet will be in constant fear. That's a bad spot. I don't envy any of them.

What worries me most about Trump's presidency, and it's not necessarily a criticism of him but where the country is headed in general, is the fact that the country seems to be moving farther and farther apart. I had hoped that a message would have been taken by both Democrats and Republican alike from this election. The people are fed up with the same ol' political B.S. from Washington. They just want to see things get done. People, regardless of race, sex, religion, origin, etc. basically all have the same wants and desires. A comfortable life with little worries. But it doesn't seem like the politicians have gotten the message. Instead, it seems to have pushed both sides further apart. What we really needed was a quality candidate that was a uniter. But we had two terrible flawed candidates.

 

[Old Thunder]

I'm not going to deny that sexism exists but I don't think it played a significant role in Hillary's loss. She just ran a terrible campaign and took many things for granted. I can't tell you how many times I heard from female friends or co-workers that said "I wish she would give me something other than vote for me because I'm a woman." As far as things not sticking to Teflon Bill and sticking to her. Totally different personalities. He's very likable and can turn on the charm. She's not very likeable and when she does try turning on the charm it comes across as very forced. I have a friend that is secret service. He's had the privilege to guard President Bush, the elder. Word among the agency was that Hillary was not a likeable person, at all. It was seen as a punishment to be assigned to her.

Yeah, I know a lot of women who were against her because she was a woman - according to them, Hillary does not live up to the standards of what being a woman means.

Like I said, when America gets its first female president, I hope it's better than Hillary - we need someone to show all us guys that what we do, the opposite sex can do so much better.