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Bert and Ernie Gay Rumor: Settled

Discussion in 'Sesame Street' started by Fozzie Bear, Jan 30, 2010.

  1. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    That's how it's always been when TV begins to integrate a particular group. They start out as caricatures and jokes. Then over time various pioneering individuals make attempts to portray them in more serious ways and if successful, it eventually catches on.

    Oh well as you say drag jokes are a very old form of comedy and I don't see them disapearing any time soon, lol.
  2. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    You know, all this talk of overanalyzing everything has prompted my memory.

    Most of you know that I used to be so obsessed with the cartoon series Courage the Cowardly Dog, and as that show progressed, it got just a little bit darker each season, and there's one episode that particularly stands out from the show's final season, called "The Mask".

    In this episode, which was a take on old-fashioned noir films, a lady dressed in a large mask and a white cloak, named Kitty, arrives at the Bagge farm, where she tells them her "life story": for starters, she came from "the wrong side of the tracks", but her life had taken an even more depressing turn when her "closest and dearest friend", Bunny, fell in love with a gangster named Mad Dog, who didn't approve of their close friendship, and basically chased Kitty away from her own life, forcing her to leave behind her home, her life, and her friend Bunny. We even see that not only is Kitty depressed without Bunny, Bunny is also depressed without Kitty, which angers Mad Dog, after all he's done for her (supposedly) that she still only thinks about Kitty. Though it wasn't his original intentions, Courage ends up on a mission to rescue Bunny from Mad Dog's control, and bring her and Kitty back together; Courage even learns from an "informant" (basically a mutual friend of Kitty and Bunny who runs a diner) that Mad Dog is "the nastiest piece of jealousy who ever lived", hence why he disapproved of Kitty and Bunny's friendship. After some wild action, with Courage luring Kitty away from Mad Dog's joint on foot, while Mad Dog chases after them in his souped-up cadillac, Mad Dog is injured by an oncoming train, after Courage steers the car onto the tracks (luckily, cartoon violence only results in Mad Dog in a dopey daze on the front end of the train); on the final car of the train happens to be Kitty, no longer in her mask or cloak, calling out to Bunny, who quickly chases afterwards. Kitty pulls Bunny aboard, and the two of them are ecstatic to be reunited, and plan on spending the rest oftheir lives together forever.

    Now, like Ernie and Bert, this could be argued that Kitty and Bunny being just friends, and nothing more, however, it really was the creator's intentions that Kitty and Bunny were to be interpreted as more than just good/close/dear/best friends... in fact, as an adult, and knowing a few more things about life and such, one can see that Kitty and Bunny do act more like lovers than friends.

    That said, despite the facts that they live together, sleep in the same room, and all that jazz, never once, in over forty years, have Ernie and Bert ever acted like lovers; as many people pointed out, it's more a matter of them being like the typical television Oscar and Felix-esque odd couple, which not surprisingly, is a concept that's been around for eons as well.
  3. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    Not gay per se, just not the typical alpha male. I always liked those sort of characters.
    Yeah the new Sherlock Holmes seems to have some pivotal drag scenes.
  4. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    On two technicalities...
    Smithers slowly became gay, ONLY because they were making jokes about how close to Mr. Burns he was. Much like any other Simpsons character, Smithers went through the Flanderization process where one tiny bit of his characteristics that was hinted at slowly became all what the character was about. Roger, however, is only "gay" because of his Paul Lynde voice. They did reveal that he's a pan-sexual, though. But the character seems more about complete hedonism than just sexuality (he's become addicted to drugs in later seasons).

    I hated when people started saying any character who dresses up in woman's clothing is gay. Only a percentage of drag queens actually are gay... plus, that was the typical kind of comedy of the day. The Three Stooges dressed in drag on a few occasions. It, uh, usually works better when the man in a dress is ugly.
  5. Sgt Floyd

    Sgt Floyd Well-Known Member

    Not to mention a lot of schools have drag beauty pageants. Both my high school and college do. And most who eneter are not gay, but the class goofballs.
  6. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    They NEVER would have done ANYTHING like THAT back in the days when I was in school. But then again, back when I was in school, we actually DIDN'T have all those ranks and everything like "Voted Mosted Likely to..."
  7. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    Dude, c'mon. Everything about Roger since the beginning was designed to invoke a gay stereotype. Heck, while gay males are usually portrayed as slapstick sight gags in The Simpsons, they've had several notable episodes respectfully dealing with the established gay characters on the Simpsons(The Moe Tavern episode last season, where it was making fun of how a lot of gay clubs act like macho straight clubs toward non pretty guys and how the regular show gay males of Springfield needed their own place. I recall a landmark episode in the late 1990's pointing out Homer's homophobia)
  8. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    And we also have people in the entertainment industry who are straight, BUTthey ACT gay... and for what reason? Laughs? To create an alter-ego personality? To appeal to gay audiences? I don't know.

    For years, I was SURE Greg Proops was gay, because he did some of the gayest things on Whose Line (and made plenty of gay jokes), and was shocked to learn that he was married to a woman. Aside from him, a lot of lame YouTube celebrities really are gay, but only one of them only acts gay and really isn't: Shane Dawson.

    Here's one thing I've learned about gay celebrities: you can always tell whether they're gay or not by the fact it they do or don't admit it. If a celebrity isn't gay, they admit it, if a celebrity is gay, they WON'T admit it, but dance around the question with things like, "I want you to believe I can play straight, I want you to believe I can play gay, etc" or "I don't need to answer that question, I know who I am", etc. Then years later, they FINALLY admit it, and the public is like "Duh, as if we couldn't come to that conclusion". Clay Aiken, Sean Hayes... possibly Richard Simmons...
  9. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    On the topic of who seems gay etc, I'm posting three confirmed out and gay popular actors who don't really fit the stereotype.

  10. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    Ehh... NPH... I'd argue him "not fitting the stereotype", but I won't. I know he plays straight men a lot, but when he's being himself... yeah, it seems pretty obvious, IMO. Especially the way he kept losing his cool when Telly couldn't decide what kind of shoes he wanted, :laugh:
  11. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    They're not "acting gay." They're acting like themselves. There are plenty of "effeminate" straight men and "tough" straight women. Mannerisms isn't a reliable way to tell a person's orientation.
    frogboy4 likes this.
  12. Daffyfan4ever

    Daffyfan4ever Well-Known Member

    I guess we can put Bruce Vilanch in that category as well.
  13. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    Only mine are! ;)
  14. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I'd like to add...

    Notoriously HATED the effeminate stereotype and especially famous gay actors that fit it. Also an infamous wacko party boy. Sometimes would bite people on the leg at parties. Not kidding.
  15. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Will also mention Raymond Burr, who played Perry Mason. To this day, many fans are astounded to find out he was gay; he really didn't fit any conventional stereotypes.
  16. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    Or Rock Hudson.
  17. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    Ultimately it's not about how flamboyant or masculine one is perceived. Those are arbitrary standards. It's about not acting like anything and just being yourself. :super:
  18. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    On the subject of stereotypes and such, I have to say there is ONE gay stereotype that I have to take issue with, mainly because it makes little-to-no sense... the old saying that "Gay people are gay because they were sexually assaulted as children".

    I'm sorry, but what does that have to do with gay people being gay? I mean, are there seriously studies or research to back up that claim? And if so, why would such a thing make someone gay? I mean, I actually know someone who, sadly, was sexually assaulted as a child, and that person today is arrow straight. So, what's the deal ont hat?
    frogboy4 likes this.
  19. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    There's a lot of ignorance and a lot of half baked theories floating around.

    Even when there are scentific studies on the topic, the results are uncertain. There was a scientific study a few years ago that claimed that the more older brothers a male had, the more likely he was genetically to be gay. Now perhaps this is true statistically speaking, but obviously there are plenty of gay men who had NO older brothers. And there are plenty of straight men who had multiple older brothers. So yeah, statistics aren't that useful either, lol.
  20. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    I remember hearing that, and I can say that it isn't necessarily true on my account, as I have three older brothers... but then again, they were from different marriages, so I didn't and don't really see much of them (I've never even met one of them), so in a sense, I'm practically an only child (from my parents' union).

    But on the subject of genetics, they're always trying to "discover" new "genes" that explain why people are the way they are; like with all the recenty infidelity scandals with people like Tiger Woods, Jesse James, AHHHNOLD, etc, they're trying to see if there's a "cheating" gene. They already have these "studies" that suggest people who aren't necessarily book-smart are more likely to cheat than more intelligent people, because since the're not very smart, they're going to act on more animalistic instincts than rational human instincts.

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