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Bert and Ernie Gay Rumor: Settled

Discussion in 'Sesame Street' started by Fozzie Bear, Jan 30, 2010.

  1. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Oh sure, the wealthy among us whose parents sent them to Ivy League schools, they NEVER cheat on their spouses! Heck no!

  2. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    I agree. There are so many microscopic nature and nurture factors that shape an individual. It's useless to try and pin one thing to one aspect of a whole person. I personally believe many genetic factors lay the groundwork for an individual and then their environment shapes what kind of straight or gay (or otherwise) person they will turn out to be. This has to do with every part of a person too.

    However, I do not believe in the oversimplification and ridiculous bigotry of conservative Chrisitan statements like this one by Michele Bachmann:

    “Normalization (of gayness) through desensitization. Very effective way to do this with a bunch of second graders, is take a picture of “The Lion King” for instance, and a teacher might say, “Do you know that the music for this movie was written by a gay man?” The message is: I’m better at what I do, because I’m gay.” Bachmann at EdWatch National Education Conference, November 6, 2004.

    Is it me or does Bachmann seem like a cartoonish John Waters character? No unflattering magazine cover needed for her bunch o' crazy.
  3. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    Again, that's the problem with these "holier than thou" uber-conservative Republicans: they go on spouting God this and Jesus that, but are the least Christ-like people on the planet... after all, the Bible specifically tells us as Christians, we're not to be judgemental of others, that only God can judge those... and here they are, bashing gays for being gay, when there are far worse things than being gay... there are people out there literally getting away with murder and such, but no, they're too busy saying things like, "God is sending you to **** since you're gay", etc.

    And what's worse is that Bachmann's husband actually runs a therapy place that tries to convert gays into heterosexual... they actually showed candid footage of a session where a therapist tells a gay man, "God made man to be attracted to a woman's body, he's supposed to like breasts and stuff like that"... oh yeah, if I was gay, that'd turn me straight all right... woo, breasts... woo...
  4. Daffyfan4ever

    Daffyfan4ever Well-Known Member

    Yeah. I think Pee Wee is coming back out again. I hear they're making a new Pee Wee's Playhouse movie that's coming out next year.
  5. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    Paul Reubens has been talking for years (like since 2006 or 2007 I think) about wanting to do like this big "final chapter" on Pee-wee, but I don't know what has become of it... I just remember Laurence Fishburn saying that he would be more than happy to reprise his role of Cowboy Curtis, which I think is really great for a big star to do that and embrace his roots.
  6. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    That is really dangerous and causes lifelong dysfunction of the alleged "converted" and their family members.

    Oooh, and to Beaker about the Sheldon asexuality. While I agree with you about the character, the actor Jim Parsons is actually out and gay.
  7. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Crazy's not even the word. She's a very dangerous individual. I know Republicans are sick of being the evil party, so why do they keep favoring such ghoulish candidates? I could turn this into Michele Bachman is a monster thread, but I don't want to. But that kind of backwards thinking is why the country is so devided and screwed up. Of course gay people are 'miserable." They have to put up with bigoted fascists like that.

    That's the only reason why I support Sesame Workshop's constant press releases debunking these rumors. Stuff like that is fodder for bigoted movements to turn into "brainwashing people to accept a gay agenda" so they can brainwash people to follow their be hateful and scared and vote for wealthy favoring candidates that we pay for agenda. Separation beteen Church and state should ALSO be about putting one's beliefs aside for the common good of the country. Wedge issues need to be ignored and the focus should go to something mutually beneficial.
    frogboy4 likes this.
  8. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    OK, I don't agree with Bachman's political views and I have no intention of voting for her. But I won't throw around the word "monster." She's adopted an amazing amount of foster children over the years. That's more than most people can bother to do.

    Just saying, people are complicated.
  9. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    I don't approve of assigning such labels to people either, but I will characterize her treatment of gay people as monstrous. A decade from now her statements will largely be seen as bigotry run amok in a party that still permitted it. There's no difference in her hate-speech than that of Islamic radicals. Even though I don't approve of her views, she's permitted to adopt children and raise them under her system of beliefs, but strives to deny rights for others to do the same. Even so, i won't paint her with the wide brush she paints gay men and women.
  10. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Not just that. Her views are dangerously extreme. At one point she was talking about re-education camps for the young. Among other things I can't quite think of right now. I am not saying "Oh, the Republicans are fascist." That's painting with a brush. But quite frankly, the pledge she signed was the closest to Sharia Law we'd ever get in the US. I know she's probably not going to be the front runner, and they'll go with a Neo-Con like Romney (you know things are bad when I'm actually rooting for him to clench the nomination). She adopted a lot of kids... so do cult leaders. The point?

    She claims to speak for "freedom" but the only freedom she wants is freedom for gun owners and the monster corporations that already get away with murder. Her views about gays are barbaric. I'm not talking about someone who says, "sorry, but I was raised to believe homosexuality is a sin" but lives and lets live, I'm talking about a "This is something I personally object to for some reason and I want to get rid of it because I have a problem with it." I've always said it's dangerous to compare any politician to Hitler unless they're genocidal dictators, but there's a difference between disagreeable and dangerous. She's dangerous. I still don't see why Log Cabin Republicans don't smash candidates like her down and just stand up for the right's financial beliefs of fiscal solvency. They manages to speak up against don't ask don't tell, but not Bachman?
  11. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Just saying, from my experience, both parties are quite capable of being "monsterous" at times. But they're also both correct about other issues at times. To get rid of any one "side" completely I think would do more harm than good.

    Though I get that you're talking about very extremist views, which tend to cause the most problems.
  12. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    She's a very very extreme candidate. That's what I'm getting at. I'm not saying right or left is better, but ANY candidate that talks about re-education camps (especially one that doesn't know American history from a hole in the ground) is a dangerous threat to democracy. She doesn't have the same Republican, "let's badmouth the gays to get the religious vote," views more moderate (and moderate is a relative term) candidates, she clearly has it in for them, and lord only knows what would happen if she gets her way. Extremists divide, and this is why the country will never get anything done or get back on track.
  13. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    I just don't take her seriously as a someone who can actually win. I think Romney will get it before her.

    Though even if she did win, there's only so much a President can actually do. There's a lot of other factors to ruining a country, lol.
  14. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    There IS only so much you can do... unless Congress is on your side. That's why the last guy got away with so much, and the guy we currently have can't get anything accomplished. But any thing like the language she speaks and having popularity is unsettling. Again, I stress there's a difference between Limbaugh and Beck. Limbaugh appeals to a certain audience that believes what he believes. Beck appeals to less rational people with dangerous conspiracy theories. Romney will probably get the nod, if not Perry (who is also pretty extreme) and Ron Paul will be swept under the rug like in '08, and quietly sit back, let his party do the same things he's complaining about, and not give conservatives a different choice by running as an indie. While I can't agree with most of Paul's politics, at least he's speaking out against what the party has become, especially the spending spree of both wars.

    But enough about that.

    The fact that gay people can be in the entertainment business give fodder for very nasty pseudo-religious types to say someone's brainwashing kids before they get to them. Now, here's where I'm conflicted... unless I already said this before (actually I think I did, but I will anyway).

    Parents that complain about when someone's teaching their kids about gay couples who have kids. Somethings SHOULD be left to the parents, but sometimes bigotry (or at least non-bigoted, yet disagreeable beliefs) needs to be quashed by a generation. Sometimes these kids are more corrupted by their up-brining than what the media could ever tell them to believe. I mean, racist kids usually come from racists and their beliefs keep getting handed down generation by generation. And honestly, I believe that beliefs need to be questioned to find their true meaning. There's a difference between believing and parroting.

    Bachman's comments on The Lion King were not only uncalled for, but something that's only passed down through scary conspiracy theories that people are suckered into believing. Remember the, no pun intended, goofy Disney Boycott by Evangelicals in the 1990's because they employ gay people as entertainers? That's like saying we have to burn Star Trek products because of George Takai. People need to accept that a portion of the gay community does get into creative fields, YET they never promote any agenda. Lion King didn't have an agenda other than the pursuit of power is a dangerous one. Sesame's "agenda" is sharing, literacy, numeral recognition, and whatever initiative they feel they need to cram down everyone's throats.
  15. mbmfrog

    mbmfrog Active Member

    You all should be ASHAMED of yourselves. I mean Jim Henson would roll over in his own grave if anyone was thinking of THIS. :o

    I mean Sesame Street was created to be a bit ABOVE all this and just simply teach kids the basics that they all need to know for school. I truly think it is proper for the Sesame Workshop to make it so that Bert and Ernie are not gay, because that was not what they were made for in ANY WAY. :grouchy:

    Once again, I would just like to say SHAME on ALL OF YOU. :(
  16. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    Wow! :eek:I don't support officially assigning Bert and Ernie as gay characters either but I am shocked by your rather extreme reaction. Sesame Street was created for both educational purposes and to promote greater social understanding in the minds of kids. That's also the reason for Fraggle Rock. For anyone to exclude gays from that exposes a very ugly personal prejudice that's specifically targeted at gay people. :attitude:

    I also would caution you that many longtime Muppet Central members, ToughPigs members and those who work for the Muppets are also gay. The little smiley faces in your post were created by me, a fella who kisses other fellas and has done so for over 20 years. Richard Hunt who performed half of Sesame's Two-Headed Monster, Junior Gorg, Scooter, Janice, Statler, Sweetums and plenty of other characters at the core of what Muppets are all about was also gay. Proud gay people are everywhere and it's no longer acceptable to shame us or kick us around as has been a past practice. :cry:

    It is appropriate for us to be somehow represented in all of life including Sesame Street. I just don't think a Bert and Ernie wedding is a thoughtful way to do that. It's too polarizing. I do agree that Ernie and Bert should stay intact just as they always have been. I simply object to your mean and judgmental response. That is not in the spirit of anything Muppets! And I find your "Jim Henson would do this" sort of rhetoric in extremely bad taste. Can't we all be a little better to one another? :cool:
  17. mbmfrog

    mbmfrog Active Member

    If I did go a bit too far, then I do apoogize as I did not mean to sound it out that way.

    It just that a concept that is a bit of a touchy subject to speak about in today's world and to use it in a way that would change such a long standing concept of a beloved children show. It just ....:(

    I do understand that we have a few talented gay actors and actresses in today's world and I must say I am a bit surprised to learn that Richard Hunt was gay. That was a bit of a shock to me. Still, I do have some respect to those that are both talented and Gay in Hollywood.

    So once again, I do apologize if my comments came off to extreme. As I stated before this is a difficult subject to grasp on, even in todays world.:wisdom:
  18. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    Thanks. :o I agree, it's still a sensitive subject and one that Sesame can and probably should touch on in some way in the future once this bizarre petition fades away. That really didn't help to do anything but stir the pot!

    Sesame has a history of including all sorts of people and minorities with all sorts of social and political views and they skillfully do so without particularly endorsing them. I think they can put their brand of sensitivity reflecting that gay people exist in the world and on Sesame Street. They already have a multicultural cast, interracial couples, deaf and blind neighbors along with the likes of Jesse Jackson, Ralph Nadir and Laura Bush. Rosie O'Donnell and proud new father NPH has also visited the street so gay families are already somewhat included on the program.
  19. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    The sad truth is, there are a lot of subjects that we may want to cover on shows like SST and such, but they never will be able to: they took a big risk explaining death in 1983 regarding Mr. Hooper, and were successful, however, for every success, there have also been at least two more failures regarding sensitive issues, like divorce for example, in the infamous "banned" Snuffy and Alice's parents are divorced episode that was never aired, because it upset the children in the test audiences. Lou Berger even said there are many topics they'd like to address, but they wouldn't be able to.

    Inclusion of gay lifestyle HAD been attemped on a PBS Kids show before: an episode of the Arthur spin-off Postcards from Buster had Buster meeting a girl with "two mommies", but was never aired nationwide, only once on the PBS affiliate that's involved with the production of a lot of those kids shows (WGBH); and sadly, there are a LOT of fanatic conversative church groups and homeschool groups that have boycotted PBS before for trying to teach tolerance of homosexuality... I know, because that's why we don't have those pledge drives at my local PBS affiliate anymore, because those groups dealt a devestating blow to their pledges, their pledges dropped drastically, and they tried to make up for it by increasing the pledge minimum, but that didn't help... nowadays, they only accept private funding and donations, though I know one of my colleagues has told me he wishes they could do something like that to help support children's programming again (and too, he was instrumental in shaping a lot of the facets of Steve D'Monster's personality).

    Evencable children's shows have attempted to have some sort o f gay inclusion and have gotten in trouble for it, like the banned Cow and Chicken episode where Cow joins a motorcycle gang called the Buffalo Gals, composed entirely of huge masculine butch women who randomly bursts into people's homes, and chews on their carpets (wink-wink).

    Sadly, homosexuality is not seen by the "public" as being "family-friendly", even Johnny Weir has been on the short end of that stick... the last I've heard, the Archie comics were planning on adding an openly gay character to their cast, not sure if that's worked out for them or not, but then again, I really don't know of anybody (other than Drtooth maybe) who actually reads Archie Comics.
  20. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    I'm so glad you brought up the history of difficult topics in children's entertainment along with the inclusion of Sesame's nixed divorce episode. That's exactly where this discussion should have started. I guess the absurdity of the recent petition obscured a much more interesting conversation. Thanks for bringing that back. :super:

    It is tough and there are a lot of groups waiting to find an excuse to pounce on such programs. I still think it can be done. As mentioned it has been done when considering that many out gay celebrities have appeared on Sesame Street. I still think assigning the lifestyle label confuses some folk by painting an ambiguous picture of what life is really like. Gay couples are very much like straight couples. They're just of the same sex and face more prejudice. There's an epic conspiracy to hide it from me if there's anything more interesting than that. :p

    Wow! You know about Kevin Keller! He's an out gay character in Archie Comics that recently became popular enough to carry his own branded comic along with being a recurring character in the regular Archie universe:
    I hope this helps others become more tolerant in accepting the differences of others even if they don't agree with them. :)

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