1. Welcome to the Muppet Central Forum!
    You are viewing our forum as a guest. Join our free community to post topics and start private conversations. Please contact us if you need help with registration or your account login.

  2. Christmas Music
    Our 17th annual Christmas Music Marathon is underway on Muppet Central Radio. Listen to the best Muppet Christmas music of all-time through December 25.

  3. Sesame Street Season 48
    Sesame Street's 48th season officially began Saturday November 18 on HBO. After you see the new episodes, post here and let us know your thoughts.

Bob, Gordon, and Luis: FIRED!

Discussion in 'Sesame Street' started by Censored, Jul 28, 2016.

  1. Censored

    Censored Well-Known Member

  2. Censored

    Censored Well-Known Member

    Disgusting!
     
  3. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

  4. fuzzygobo

    fuzzygobo Well-Known Member

    What made Sesame work so well for so many years was the perfect chemistry:
    1. Muppets (at least as long as Jim was alive)
    2. Innovative animation (Hubleys, Jim Simon, to name but two)
    3. Joe Raposo's (and Jeff Moss, not to be ignored) music
    4. Jon Stone's direction (set a high standard for those who followed)
    5. A human cast kids can identify with. None of them had super powers, they all had flaws, but were believable, relatable, and close enough to be part of your family.

    Take any one ingredient out of the formula (or add too much) the results won't be quite as good.

    I've known Bob since Day One. I remember Luis opening the Fix-It Shop with Rafael (Raul Julia). I remember Roscoe as the latest in a long line of Gordons.
    Roscoe being the youngest of the three,at age 72, it would be a challenge to keep going forever. (40+ years on any show is no easy task).
    Still, it would've been decent to have some kind of send-off, as opposed to being kicked to the curb.

    This isn't sour grapes from some old fart who whines about how the show ain't the same since he was a kid.
    I've made my peace with Elmo long ago.
    I am amazed Sesame managed to last as long as it has. It's just gotten harder for me to recognize it.
     
    Blue Frackle likes this.
  5. Censored

    Censored Well-Known Member

    There was no reason for the actors to leave at all. They were doing their jobs just fine. I guess if Will Lee was still alive, they'd be firing Mr. Hooper right now too. Ageism, disloyalty, and arrogance are sickening.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2016
  6. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    If Will Lee were still alive, he'd be over 108 years old.

    Just sayin'.
     
    Blue Frackle likes this.
  7. Censored

    Censored Well-Known Member

    And another point is missed...
     
  8. Censored

    Censored Well-Known Member

    Or we could put it another way: If CTW had a throw away ageist mentality in the 70's, Will Lee would have gotten fired long before he died.

    Sesame Street has been a great trend setter throughout the decades, but I never thought they'd be setting the trend for reinstating forced retirement.
     
    MikaelaMuppet and heralde like this.
  9. Oscarfan

    Oscarfan Well-Known Member

    CTW didn't think the show would last more than 10 years, of course they wouldn't have had that mentality because what would it have mattered?
     
  10. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Maybe, but then again no one knew the show would have lasted 10 years, let alone almost fifty. I'd assume if Will did make it a few more years, he probably would have retired voluntarily. The thing is, I think we essentially forget how old this show is and how many cast members left it in its history. And the one thing I think we all can agree on is that any other show would have routinely replaced their Bobs, Marias, and Gordons every 10 years when they started pushing 40 with younger 20-somethings, preferably 20 somethings they can pass off as teenagers. Why, Maria and Luis and David seem to have been brought in to be the younger hip teen figures as Bob and Gordon were the youngish father figures back in the 70's. Same deal with Gina in the 80's and Gabi and Miles in the early 00's. Sesame Street never really replaced anyone outside of the odd child actor and Gordon a couple times after Matt stopped playing him and the other guy failed to connect with viewers. And we've had that Gordon ever since. On the one hand, we tend to forget all the younger audience members that leave because they have career opportunities elsewhere. Heck, it was Gedde Watanabe's only respectful role in the 1980's. And he was there, what? Two, three years.

    Here's the deal with this. I hate it too, it does smack of ageism, how SW handled this was clumsy, callous, and fanbase enraging. But here's the howevers. While Gordon and Luis were still kinda prominent on the show, Bob just managed to pop up maybe once a season for a cameo. These older guys seem to have been phased out for the past 10 years now, but they still managed to appear a few times before the show focused mostly on Chris and Alan. The thing that honks me off is that they finally found a good place to put Luis, as the proprietor of a bike repair shop, even giving him a couple street stories, only to do this. But I think we're focusing too much on three actors, when the fact of the matter is, they let a few more actors go in the process. Mando seems to have left of his own volition for another career, but I don't see why Leela had to go as well. But the biggest however comes in the form of one word.

    Budget.

    The show was starting to really hemorrhage money for multiple reasons. We've had less regular cast members the past 10 years than we've seen in the show's history. That can't all be chalked up to ageism. Sure, some left to pursue other things, but if you watched the last 10 years of the show, the lack of budget and trying painfully to remain relevant when we have at least 3 cable channels devoted to preschool programming. All the budget seems to have gone to celebrity appearances to get parents to remember that Sesame Street is still a thing, and not the flashy loud cable toy commercials like Dora they can toss their kids at to shut them up. I don't want to go on that tangent, but come on...Sesame Street did not exist in a vacuum. This season of the show, before they even had the HBO deal, we only had 3 recurring adult human cast members. I can see the argument of kids not paying attention to characters old enough to be their grandfathers, but why did everyone else but Chris, Alan, and the new girl leave? I do not see why they couldn't keep Bob, Roscoe, and Emilio around as the once a season pop up and "I exist" before they disappear from the rest of the season, nor do I see the need for Leela just...disappearing the way she did. Other than their severe lack of money.

    So basically it sucks this is happening, this is a very bad way they handled things, but on the other hand, 47 freaking seasons.
     
  11. Censored

    Censored Well-Known Member

    Why should people be fired over their age under any circumstances, as long as they are able to do their jobs? If it wasn't for McGrath, Orman, and Delgado keeping the show going all these years, the current producers wouldn't even have a job themselves with Sesame Workshop today.
     
  12. Oscarfan

    Oscarfan Well-Known Member

    Debatable. Yes, the humans have been an essential role, but literally anyone could've been on the show for as long as they were. The Muppets are the soul of the show. It's been said that they couldn't get Jim Henson for this, there wouldn't be puppets.

    The humans gave the show realism, but the Muppets give it longevity.
     
    Blue Frackle likes this.
  13. Censored

    Censored Well-Known Member

    Ironically, Sesame Street was inspired by Captain Kangaroo, who made a point of always playing an older man, even when he was young, to promote the special bond between grandparents and their grandchildren.
     
  14. Censored

    Censored Well-Known Member

    Have to disagree. Those roles were special because the actors made them special.
     
    heralde likes this.
  15. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    The Electric Company lasted, what, like 10 years maybe including reruns? Square One Television lasted until 92 after premiering in 87. I'm not saying these shows are relatively unheard of, but say "Cookie Monster" and everyone you meet will say "OH! Yeah, I remember him!" I fell off the chair I was sitting in when I watched a Fresh Off the Boat where they referenced "Mathnet." And I almost completely forgot about 321 Contact.

    The Muppets indeed made the show more profitable, more memorable, and more approachable than it would have if Sesame Street were just humans and cartoon skits. Let's not forget the marketing. Human characters appeared in books well through the 80's, but for the sake of marketability and easy cultural translation, this shifted to be more Muppet based, and human roles were now taken by adult monsters and AM's. And let's not forget the international scale. While some humans appeared in some of the dubbed skits, it's just less awkward to pull off the illusion that Ernie and Bert live there in Germany with their human characters who they never actually interact with.

    I do agree the humans and Muppets balanced each other out nicely, it's just we saw a lot more human skits before Sesame Street really took off with a larger roster of characters. Like those increasingly terrible sitcom comedy duos that thankfully disappeared within a few years of the show. Replaced by more monsters, more parody characters, more Am kid sketches. We saw a decrease in human alone skits since the late 70's into the 80's, but they always remained a staple in the street stories with impeccable balance.

    Yet, we come to the time paradox. How many times did Bart and Lisa Simpson go on summer break, only to come back to the same exact same grade in the fall? How many Christmases did they have? Bart's been 10 so long that he'd be in his 40's in real time. But its a cartoon. That can be pulled off easily. Not so much when Elmo was there at the birth of Gabi, and he's still an audience surrogate 3 and a half year old when the actress is old enough to have kids of her own Elmo's age. But there is one thing we're forgetting... The Fleeting Demographic Rule

    The show has a (and this is a very generous estimation) 2-6 year old turn around. Kids watch the show for about 4 years, grow out of it, probably watch it a good 20+ years later if they have kids of their own. Would they care who Bob is if they've never seen him in an episode before? Let me put it this way...Trix. 90's kids complain hard about how the cereal is no longer fruit shaped when the cereal was never fruit shaped to begin with and actually reverted close to the original version. Generations are all possessive about things in their generation. All I can say. The kids with kids watching now...and wait for it...it gets pretty hairy...grew up on Elmo's World. Elmo's World alone is 20 years old!
     
    mr3urious likes this.
  16. Censored

    Censored Well-Known Member

    Oscar The Grouch would not have been nearly as funny if he didn't have human characters to annoy. Big Bird's childlike curiosity would have meant nothing without human adults to teach him.
     
  17. Pig's Laundry

    Pig's Laundry Well-Known Member

    Yes, those actors did make them special. But had they always been someone else, we wouldn't know the difference. I think that's what Oscarfan was saying. Bob, Susan and Gordon aren't the only actors out there with charm and about the same age.
     
    Blue Frackle likes this.
  18. Censored

    Censored Well-Known Member


    Again, I must disagree. Bob McGrath basically used his own personality to develop his character. Roscoe Orman and Emilio Delgado also put a lot of themselves into the parts. It's not like they were just random roles that anyone could have done. If actors got the roles who did not have the right chemistry or fit, it could have definitely interfered with the program's success.

    In any case, age discrimination should have no place in 2016.
     
  19. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    Yeah, well, racism has no place in 2016, yet we've got white cops killing black people, resulting in Black Lives Matter protests, which has also resulted in Blue Lives Matter protests, which has also resulted in black people killing white cops, which has also resulted in All Lives Matter protests, which has also resulted in All Lives Didn't Matter protests, which has become a never-ending cycle.
     
  20. Pig's Laundry

    Pig's Laundry Well-Known Member

    No, but the thing is, even if Emilio, Sonia, Roscoe etc hadn't been hired than we would have gotten completely different characters based on whomever else they hired. And if they didn't have enough chemistry, than given the nature of the show, they would've been fired and replaced. Such is the case with many, many of the cast members from the 70s, 80s and 90s.
     

Share This Page