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Can Sesame Street go to Congress?

Discussion in 'Sesame Street' started by mbmfrog, Feb 27, 2011.

  1. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    Well we may never know the whole story, but they probably did the right thing removing those people. The guy wasn't just critcizing the Tea Party, he said a lot of very offensive things about a lot of groups. As a liberal, I would have asked him to leave too.

    But yeah, why should PBS suffer for that? That doesn't make any sense.
  2. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    They want to think that the big bad left is always conspiring against them to bend the poorest of the poor to their will. I mentioned this in another thread.

    Now, here's what bugs me.. if someone on the left says something outrageous with 2% of truth to it, they get fired and vilified. if someone on the right does the exact same thing, they get picked up from local radio to TV talking head. There is no civil debate on either side, and that polarizes the country, and lets the loudest jerk win. And often times, loudest jerk is funded by some corporation of some sort.

    Fox News begrudging "liberal media" funded by 2 cents of taxpayer money or not is pot calling the kettle black. I've said this about both sides now, but both sides think that only THEY are the only ones with free speech... the difference is that the right has the means, support, money, and organization to make things happen. The left is standing their passive aggressively saying "Oh, yeah? Well, SAME to YOU, Buddy." (picture Jon Arbuckle shaking his fist at a giant big muscular guy when I mention that, like I do).

    Basically, while I don't know the full story either (who can you trust anyway) this was a clear and OBVIOUS ploy to tell the "common man" that a news network they refuse to listen to anyway with NO influence on anyone that matters is "out of touch" so they can take money away from NPR and PBS and give it straight to our real enemies and puppet governments we'll wind up fighting future wars with.

    Sure, the guy should have been fired (for basically saying what their listeners are saying?)... but it shouldn't be used as another Neo-Con tool. Totally childish, petty, unprofessional, bitter behavior. If someone tried to take down one of THEIR biased sources, they'd deny everything, no one would get fired, and they'd have a best selling book all filled with lies.

    Seriously... it's the Dan Rather thing all over again.
  3. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    I think both sides have perfected the double standard quite well. And then are both good at implying they're the innocent ones. They're opposite, but definitely equal. There is no hero here. ;)

    Um well I hope that's not what all their listeners are saying. Some of the things he said I'd rather not repeat here.
  4. dwmckim

    dwmckim Well-Known Member

    Oh absolutely, both sides have double standards and make mistakes. However the point Drtooth is making is that because the overwhelming vast majority of news media is corporate owned and in the hands of right-wing interests (who still actually try to perpetuate the myth of a "liberal media"), when someone on the left so much as wears white after Labor Day, they have a huge echo chamber in place to get it all over the place and make it Top Story of the Day and does all they can to further weaken their opponents and elimenate them. If someone on the right did the exact same type of thing, not only does the left have few resources to get that same kind of story out, but in the meantime the wrongdoer's boss not only doesn't fire them but pats them on the back saying "good job" (if not all out giving them a raise or promotion)

    And this all goes back to why the abolition of PBS/NPR is so high up the extreme right's hitlist. Not that they're "leftist" but because they aren't controlled by the right (and so they'll do everything they can to paint them with the "liberal media, anti-right, biased" label) - until they can successfully have them removed, they'll settle for weakened, ridiculed, and invalidated.
  5. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    I'm just very skeptical about PBS actually losing its funding. Again, the Senate and the President wouldn't support it. It's posturing from the right-wing. I'm not saying it could never happen, that would be naive I admit, lol. Just saying I'm skeptical based on past experience.

    And as a liberal, I was offended by the things that guy from NPR was saying. He wasn't just insulting the tea party, but several different groups and it was pretty disgusting.

    Again, there's no heroes here. The so-called right and left, all they do is betray us time and again and then sit back and laugh at us. And I won't say one is worse than the other, because they're both equally slimely. ;)
  6. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member


    I can't even edit that down to put up a single point. The NPR debacle came out of someone putting a vendetta sting, making a FAKE organization and sliming their way to enemy headquarters. And guess what, reports are surfacing that the same fake organization tried to sneak into PBS... but they were weary of them in that case.

    And all I'm saying, where is some ultralefty sneaking, cheating and lying their way into Fox News, or one of a trillion rightwing talk radio stations?

    I think the biggest example is Sarah Palin crying and whining about how evil and heartless Seth MacFarline was for one of his writers mocking her kids (albeit in a very inappropriate way... but they go out of their way to tick everyone off) while Glenn "Mentally Unstable" Beck mocked Obama's kids in an unfunny and truely revolting skit on his radio station. Who became the villain there? Why, Family Guy of course. Glenn "CooCoo for Neocons" Beck made a "I'm a bad widdle boy" cutesy face and pretended to be sorry for his remark.

    These people want to win at ANY cost. This isn't the Republican's party anymore... it's the wealthiest one percent's, and no one wants to get to the common ground to find that out. They just slap a new label on the same crap.

    I'd love to say they're both equally slimy, but one has bigger resources, sneakier techniques, and more gullible people on their side. Why is it that right wing radio, TV, and books make a fortune, and Air America went bankrupt halfway through Bush's second term when EVERYBODY hated him?

    EDIT: That said, how come no one's reporting certain right wing politicians trying to take voting rights away from college kids, and the union busting in Wisconsin and Ohio.... OH! Fox owned TMZ leaked a bunch of footage of Charlie Sheen's mental breakdown and Lindsay Lohan's shoplifiting tape.
  7. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    I agree that it was definitely entrapment. No doubt about that. But nobody forced the NPR guy to say the things he said. He shot his mouth off, the things he said were beyond sick and offensive, he should have known better and he deserves what he got.

    Sadly, neither side has its shortage of gullible people. (Not referring to anyone here, just in general ;) ).

    I'm definitely not defending the Republicans, but if they have more resources, how did a Democrat like Clinton stay in office for two terms? And how did Obama win? The Democrats are far from destitute (can't say that for many of the people who voted for them, sadly).

    Again I'm not saying the Republicans are better. I'm just saying there's no one here who can honestly say "Not Guilty" with a straight face.

    You're totally right, they realize that college kids are more likely to vote Democrat and they would like to stop that. Frankly our votes are practically worthless at this point anyway. Same two wealthy losers everytime.
  8. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I'm wondering if he wasn't forced to say that... after all, they posed as Muslims... and we all know what people hate who. Again, I agree he should have got fired... though, if it was someone on the other side that said incendiary things, either they'd make the "I'm a bad widdle boy" face and force a fake apology (Ann Coulter once said some VERY anti-Semetic things and made a whimpering fake apology too), or their supporters say "I'm not arguing" and the guy gets a book deal and a raise.

    Clinton I can't speak for, but the O man.. well, he was running against a Bush Yes-man and Female Quayle. I dunno about you, but I'd vote for any viable person that WASN'T them. People seem to forget how things were back then... Freedom Fries? I can't speak for anyone else, but I'd vote ANYTHING besides that. Even if a mutant alien who wanted to enslave Earth was running against that, I'd go with the alien. But it's not like the right DIDN'T have a plan. They clearly had a win/lose strategy. And we're experiencing their "every loss is a win" plan right now... blame the other guy for THEIR mistakes while continuing to push the same mistakes. I could go on and on about that one, just for the 2008 election, actually. But it's not that the right didn't try. Remember when they were flinging the word "Socialist" around like it was 1955, and questioning if he was a citizen? They kinda blew their own election. That's not to say they aren't using the same techniques years before the next one to embitter people against him.

    Besides, everyone knows these things are won by undecideds...

    Yeah, I want to agree they're both "bad," but one's just bigger and badder than the other. And ill behaved! Really, I loved during the 2004 election when they ran those "question John Kerry's record" commercials, McCain stood up and defended John's war service record.

    But again, if the third party wants to stand a chance CONSOLIDATE! Strengthen! ORGANIZE! Put your feet down and combine to make less parties. Sure, I'd vote for them if there wasn't 50 of them. Which brings me to...


    Not only that, but ONE person from that side forced an independent to run. Look for the thread "Is the Country Owned by Wesayso" or something like that... some people will do anything to win... some people will do EVERYTHING to win.


    Above all, you CAN'T balance budget nickel and diming public broadcasting. There's a vendetta. And either it be that they aren't owned by someone, or that the competitors want them out of business!
  9. dwmckim

    dwmckim Well-Known Member

    And once enough people feel that way, then the corporatists (whatever side they may fall on) have indeed won. No matter what happens, never forget or pass on your power to vote. Our country still is a democracy underneath it all and as long as people remember that, then we haven't surrendered our power. Sure in many cases, it may seem like the choice of "lesser of two evils", but you can sure as heck bet i'm still going to make sure i'm going to always cast my vote against the stronger of said evils. At the end of the day, elections aren't decided by the will of the population or even by money - they're determined by who does and who doesn't show up to the ballot box. Never lose sight of that.
  10. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    If that's what he felt "forced" to say, then why was he even meeting with people who thought that way? Not to mention indulging them? If someone baited me like that, I'd never respond the way he did.

    We will have to agree to disagree. I've had this discussion many times with people and know all the arguments. I do vote for propositions. But I can't in good conscience justify voting for these people. Our system is broken and there is no stronger of said evils. At the end of the day, elections are indeed decided by who had the most money, period. And we will just keep going downhill until we make a change. How many times will we just keep bouncing back and forth from the same two corrupt parties until we realize it's not working?
  11. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I'll meet you both way. Of course, I have to say, yes, we all lose faith, and money does indeed win elections to an extent, but DW has a point...

    Again, the Dems aren't trying to kill PBS, funding for schools, fire houses, and all that... The Reps are. And if you want to say they're both crooks, well, the Dems are the Beagle Boys (they botch things up and easily get caught) and the Reps are Lupin III (they have bigger goals, and even if they're caught they can easily escape). One will accidentally spill hot soup on your lap, one will willingly throw a pot of scalding coffee in your face. One's a three legged dog with poor bladder control, the other's a rabbit Rottweiler... I could go on.

    Again, i want a strong third party to come out of this as much as anyone else... but it really is the battle against the greater evil. heck, I remember the primaries in 2008... I purposely got a Republican ballot so I could vote for anyone BUT Mitt Romney (I hate that greasy snake more than anyone else... I'd rather 4 more Bush years than a single second of Romney).

    Now, even if you think your vote is hopeless, consider this. If you can't decide who's actually worse, you'll lose either time. Sure, South Park's right about how they're the only kinds of people that suck up and slither their way into politics. But certain times, you get one candidate so vile and repulsive you want to at least SAY that you voted against them. At least you can complain you didn't win. And if something goes wrong with that person, you can always say, "Don't blame me! I voted for X."

    And again, Gore didn't make getting rid of a dictator his daddy helped come into power his legacy. Worse we would have got was a lock box...
  12. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    Agreed. But the Democrats have their own dangers attached to them. And it's not true that they're never successful in what they do.

    We're all losing everytime anyway from my point of view.

    I happily say I supported neither. ;)

    We really don't know what we would have gotten.
  13. dwmckim

    dwmckim Well-Known Member

    I used to be registered as a Republican for that purpose - so in the primaries i could vote for the "saner" ones than the hard right nutjobs. Then AZ changed its primary voting rules to open primaries and then changed to independant.
  14. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    But getting back to the topic (I still don't know what Dems stand for, they're too weak to speak up, especially with Teddy gone)

    The person who said "nasty" stuff on the sting video wasn't even a journalist or editorialist for NPR.... he was just someone who worked in funding. And I'm betting, like the Acorn video this little weasel made, it's missing a LOT of footage that would suggest entrapment.

    Really, that O'Creep is a big man! Going after tiny targets like Acorn and NPR. But hey, anything to cut the budget and squash the other side, right?

    If anything else, I want someone to pull NPR away from PBS... take NPR down, I don't care... but PBS is different. If PBS's supposedly liberal news journalistic shows didn't run a puff piece on Sarah Palin being the least corrupt governor of Alaska (which is as dubious as being the thinnest contestant on Biggest Loser), we would never have heard of her. I swear McCain or someone in his camp saw that one. And if anything else, pull funding for the adult programming... just leave Big Bird alone. They can't survive on another network.
  15. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    Ironically, that's the problem. NRP is so desperate for funding that this guy was willing to say any horrible thing in order to get money. It's unfortunate and I feel sympathy for NPR, but I won't excuse what the guy said. There has to be some decency here too.

    I do agree that PBS shouldn't get caught up in all this.

    Though I admit to being somewhat conflicted as I don't think Sesame Street has been doing a decent job lately. I know it's partially because they need the funding. But would things really get better if their financial situation improved? I'm not sure.
  16. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Yeah, but think about it this way... the opposition is so desperate to let them die, they'd send a snake "journalist" that probably baited the guy to say nasty things. 2 wrongs don't make a right... well, they make a far right, sure... But hey, if a PT firing of both that guy and the head of the network who clearly threw him under a bus fixes the problem....

    Did I already say they tried to pull the same thing on PBS? Really.. how pathetic is the right now? I'm sure that weasel's under the table salary could put BOTH NPR and PBS out of debt.

    Let's get this straight. PBS is the network, SW is the programming producers. I'm sure there's some pressure from PBS to get SS a certain way, but what it all comes down to is SW is in charge of their own programming. Again, I need to get Street Gang and read it cover to cover, but we ALL know what's to blame here... the show's only at fault for actually going with those changes. But SW has it's own budget problems at the moment. PBS buys the episodes to air... PBS having less money to buy less episodes, or buy the episodes for less DOES have an effect on the show itself. So basically, if one was financially resolvent over the other, say SW had more money or PBS was willing to pay more, they'd have a little more to work with.

    Overall, we've completely lost the show's original format and they've taken the demographic down to a younger audience... all the while filling various initiatives (some strongly badgered by certain groups and even their own researchers), all the while keeping the little ones from changing the channel to Mickey Mouse embarrassing himself or some screaming ethnic kid talking slowly asking where the red triangle that's right behind them is. Things changed for the worse, and have been since the 90's with a certain you know who.

    I swear there's something in the budget that's causing them to create smaller shows so they can sell them overseas AND use them to fill up time over here (and who are we kidding? If they DIDN'T show them here, we'd complain our butts off that we don't see them). Personally, if they have a meh product in the US, but use all their effort going to dangerous other countries and trying to get their kids to NOT grow up to be bitter, xenophobic hate puppets like their parents, I totally can forgive seeing the same Abby's School a hundred times. Conversely, they're so courageous and daring to do that, but they can't stand up to pressure groups and inconstant data over here.

    That said, you know the writers got them to get rid of Journey to Ernie, right? Not demographics, not poor testing... the writers. If they stand up again, things could very well improve.
  17. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    It's clearly entrapment, I don't dispute that. ;) I just think the guy probably meant what he said, or at least didn't mine saying it all that much. I haven't met the guy of course, but that's my initial impression. Just because it's entrapment doesn't mean the person is completely innocent.
  18. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    I still don't understand what horrible thing was said in that hatchet-job NPR sting video. Basically the guy from NPR's funding department stood his ground and contradicted the potential investor's antisemitic statements and refused to take any money at the meeting. He said that most people in this country aren't that bright and you know...he's right! And we only have our media (both CNN and Fox News alike) to blame! He also went on to state that intellectualism gets confused with liberalism. These points aren't always attractive, but that doesn't make them incorrect. Just because some Fox News hacks tell you a video is bad doesn't make it so. I only saw a few clips of what, but none of them really upset me. I've worked in retail for years and let me tell you - that the majority of Americans are uninformed yet still believe that they are somehow the contrary. It would be great if we all had a reliable news source that was interested in informing the masses rather than entertaining them and reinforcing political bias. :attitude:
  19. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    I didn't see him contracting much. In the video he seemed to be agreeing with the potential investor's rather racist claims. He said he agreed that "those who own the newspapers" have "Zionist, pro Israel" biases. Not only was he pandering to a stereotype, he was also implying there's something wrong with supporting Israel. Like I said, I didn't see very much contradicting from him. But if there's more to the story, I'm willing to listen. I know that videos can be deceiving.
  20. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    You've got a point with the newspapers. That is a very popular view by many people and I think a few particular papers do have their own biases about many hot-button topics, but that certainly doesn't represent most or all of them. In fact, this NPR rep kept uncomfortably shoveling food in his mouth most of the time this plant was spouting his hate-speech. He also went on to correct him that coverage on NPR and other such sources were not biased and nobody accepted any monetary offer at the table. I guess it's hard to talk to a bigot when you've been sent to meet with them about fund raising. But there's nothing about this meeting that truly shocked me - especially considering that Glen Beck, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh can't seem to go a day without saying something culturally insensitive or downright bigoted. I still found little, if anything, wrong with this clip. It's a shame this guy will be reprimanded for a game of gotcha.


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