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Continuity within the Muppet-verse??

Discussion in 'Classic Muppets' started by starchild, Oct 4, 2011.

  1. starchild

    starchild New Member

    So is there an actual continuity the muppets follow? I was wondering this because of the back story behind "The Muppet Movie" and how they all met but then in the saturday morning cartoon "The Muppet Babies" they're all living in the same nursery together as well..babies? And yeah you can just give me the "well that was just a cartoon" answer but here is the kicker on "A Muppet Family Christmas" they start to watch old family movies together and it's them all as "The Muppet Babies" but in a live action muppet form.
  2. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    The Muppets and Continuity, yeah they stopped speaking a long time ago, lol.
    newsmanfan likes this.
  3. starchild

    starchild New Member

    Yeah I figured that lol, been a fan for years and just went with what they threw at us but recently that was something I just started wondering about. Was hoping someone around here might have caught something I missed over the years!
  4. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    The way I always looked at it, the Muppets were similar to the comedians of the past who always played the same characters, but in completely different situations each time (Laurel & Hardy, Marx Brothers, etc.).
  5. RedPiggy

    RedPiggy Well-Known Member

    When doing my fic-verse, I went to a LOT of trouble trying to iron out the wrinkles in "continuity", from Muppets being evolved from the talking creatures in Dinosaurs until now. I think I settled on the Muppets were cared for at some point by Nanny, but later forgot about it. Also, the cartoon, with its focus on imagination, seems to be something like an interpretation (after all, the dating would be ALL wrong, since Baby Rowlf liked punk rock and that didn't exist at the implied timeline ... the cartoon is heavily 80s but can't possibly be). Notice that in MFC, it's stripped down a bit more. You only see a single corner of a dimly lit room. There's nothing aside from the fact it's on film to date it. I tried looking at 8mm on Wiki, but it doesn't address (unless I missed it) the fact you can hear them singing, which is weird to me because all of my grandfather's vids were silent. This is assuming, of course, that the Muppetverse is close to reality technology-wise. I get the impression it's implying they were babies in the 50s, but that seems odd considering Kermit isn't a kid at that time, right? I'm thinking of Sam&Friends, as I've never seen Kermit's Swamp Years. So, as there might be no official "canon", I suspect there are enough common elements (such as Piggy's poor rural background or Kermit's, well, "swamp years") to suggest a possible canon backstory.

    edit: And trying to fit Fraggle Rock and other properties is a major league headache, LOL. Fraggles don't keep accurate dating records (all we have to go on, it seems, are throw-away lines by Gorgs) and the fact that the Rock's tunnel systems are magically somewhat independent of time and space make pinning down its history dang near impossible. :D
  6. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    They never spoke... And that's not necessarily a bad thing.

    Is there any continuity in any Looney Tunes shorts? No. None of them ever were supposed to link up. Bullwinkle could barely keep continuity with in a story arc (The banana formula kept changing for example).

    Fraggle Rock must have had some sort of continuity, sure... Sesame Street to an extent... but the Muppets? Never.

    Until, of course, VMX when they referenced Doc Hopper's. And the upcoming film is said to have throw back references to other films. Other than that, there's never been continuity or canon between projects. Muppet Babies stands alone. Other than being Piggy's fantasy in MTM and the weird baby home movie in MFC, they pretty much ignored that except for merchandising sake.
  7. Dominicboo1

    Dominicboo1 Well-Known Member

    Yes I personally believe the Mupet Movie most. Even Great Muppet Caper doesn't have continuity with the origianal, because Kermit Fozzie and Gonzo don't know Piggy, Scooter, and the Electric Mayhem.
  8. Oscarfan

    Oscarfan Well-Known Member

    Well, that and it's stated upfront that they're in a movie, so they're all playing characters.
  9. Frogpuppeteer

    Frogpuppeteer Well-Known Member

    it just al over the place even in all the movies there is no true continuity
    i said this in another thread but remember even as far back as The Muppet Movie...Kermit did imply they were acting in a film when robin asked if this was how the muppets really came together

    go to 3:22
  10. Dominicboo1

    Dominicboo1 Well-Known Member

    That's true, but sill it's like they said not continous.
  11. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Here's what gets me then...

    the new movie WAS to take continuity of GMC into consideration, considering Nick Holiday was to have a cameo... but since Grodin declined, it's a moot point. But still... there's never any attempt at continuity until recently. And only with the new movie and VMX.
  12. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    Well, for me, the movies have always reflected something of the growth of the characters OUTSIDE of the movie storylines themselves (i.e. when Kermit and Piggy break the forth wall and start arguing in GMC), but based on events that may have/could have happened.

    i.e. In my thoughts, TMM and MTM would tie together if the first movie was 'based' on Kermit getting into a stage school instead of Hollywood (and changed for the movie).

    But over all, nope, nothing really fits :p

    BUT! Overall, even this movie IS a movie where they are acting to a script. I.E. Walter recently said, "I'm playing a character named Walter who is the world's biggest Muppet fan, which works well because I am the world's biggest Muppet fan, and my name is really Walter."
  13. Frogpuppeteer

    Frogpuppeteer Well-Known Member

    this is mostly the reason i dont like the word continuity, because people try to fit every single little thing into one story when it doesnt work..now im not saying people here do that just people in general..it happens with all fan bases
  14. newsmanfan

    newsmanfan Well-Known Member

    Continutity is only for in-jokes. Other than that...we may cheerfully toss it out the window and just enjoy the ride.

  15. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    *does so and hits a passing seagul*

    Oh, I didn't realize I was in a plane...*is sucked out the window by the internal air pressure*
    newsmanfan likes this.
  16. Speed Tracer

    Speed Tracer Well-Known Member

    It seems to me we've got a few different worlds here. I say "worlds" and not "timelines" because this really does resemble something like DC's "infinite earths" rather than something like, say, Star Trek, which has done a stellar job of knitting every iteration of the show and movies together.

    Off the bat, we have - The Muppet Show. It's what they're primarily known for, so we'll call that Muppet-Earth-1. Then there's The Muppet Movie, which is a movie-within-a-movie, but Kermit says it's "sort of approximately how it happened." I say we take the frog's word for it. So, the events of The Muppet Movie, while a movie, actually happened. We can safely put Kermit's Swamp Years in Muppet-Earth-1, since it does noting, far as I can remember, to contradict the events we see in The Muppet Movie. Same with It’s a Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie, except that introduces an alternate reality. So we’ll call that one Muppet-Alt-Earth-1. And, since we’ve already seen The Standard Rich & Famous Contract in the trailers for The Muppets, let’s say that movie is in Muppet-Earth-1. This is the world where the Muppets are famous, Kermit is from the swamp, they all met on their way to become rich and famous, and Orson Welles was having a good day and gave a big group of weirdos an entertainment deal, which we can assume included The Muppet Show. Eventually they would move on to The Jim Henson Hour and Muppets Tonight.

    Then we have the other movies. The Great Muppet Caper, The Muppet Christmas Carol, and Muppet Treasure Island are all fairly straightforward. They're just bigger versions of sketches. It's the Muppets putting on a show. In this case, making a movie. They went to the set, joked around with some human celebrities, and went home. They're all in what we’ll call Muppet-Earth-2. Fairly simple.

    The specials don’t really present problems for the most part. The John Denver specials are just the Muppets on vacation from the movies and shows.

    Good so far?

    The Muppets Wizard of Oz is a tricky one because we get the Muppets from Muppet-Earth-1 – their real selves – putting on a show. But the stuff on Oz is all in Ashanti’s dream. Or was it a dream? I forgot. Anyway it’s not the real Muppets. It’s just them playing roles in Ashanti’s mind. So, we can call that Muppet-Alt-Earth-2. For fun, we can put the two Studio DC specials in there too, since I’m sure we’d like to think of them as imaginary. Again – Muppets’ Wizard of Oz gives us real Muppet-Earth-1 Muppets, and then Muppet-Alt-Earth-2 Muppets. We decide to mostly forget the latter, and since Muppet-Earth-1 Muppets don’t even know there are Muppet-Alt-Earth-2 Muppets, everyone is happy.

    Now we have The Muppets Take Manhattan. This maybe presents the hardest part of Muppet continuity to pin down. Here’s what I think. Just because you’re famous in movies and TV doesn’t mean you can just go become a stage performer. In an attempt to broaden their horizons, the Muppets take some time off from being Rich & Famous to go to college and get their BA in Drama. They do, and then try to get their show off the ground, but Orson Welles is a little more senile now and isn’t around to help. But, of course, luck and perseverance lead to the success of our friends yet again! They perform their show, likely win a lot of Tony Awards, and also two of them get married.

    Then things get difficult. Not difficult to understand, necessarily… but difficult to accept. Muppets From Space and Letters to Santa all present a somewhat contradictory world to Muppet-Earth-1. In these, the Muppets *gasp* are not famous!!! In Muppets From Space, they live in a boarding house and seem to have mostly retired from show business, except for the occasional Bat Mitzvah! Or was it a Bar Mitzvah? Who cares, the Muppets aren’t famous! In Letters to Santa it appears the mortgage for the boarding house was too much and they moved to an apartment complex in New York.


    Well, pretty much what happened in real life. Muppet Treasure Island and Muppets From Space and Muppets Tonight didn’t do so hot. Our Muppet-Earth-1 Muppets were forced to not have TV shows anymore, and people don’t seem to really know who they are in Muppets From Space. We know this because Katie Holmes asked Clifford if he was some kind of alien or something. Or something. Ha!

    And, at some point, we can safely – and sadly – assume that the Muppets decide to go their separate ways, as we will see at the beginning of The Muppets. Gonzo goes back to plumbing, Kermit and Piggy probably get divorced (or separated?), and Rowlf sleeps in a hammock.

    And then…?

    We’ll find out.

    Then there’s Muppet Babies. Which was a cartoon someone made about the Muppets being babies together. Since it isn’t the Muppets playing characters, but a group of animators, we shall call it… Muppet-Baby-Earth-1. I guess.

    There you have it. Muppet continuity in a very complicated little nutshell.
    Enginerd likes this.
  17. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    Muppet Continuity as DC Worlds.

    Mind. Blown.

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