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Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by theprawncracker, Jul 22, 2010.
I know what you mean.
If it's high quality anime I'm big into it(Akira, Ghost in the Shell 1 and 2, Cowboy Bebop the movie, etc) otherwise yeah a lot of anime seems rather disposable. Im glad Disney has released all of Miyazaki and Studio Ghibli's films on dvd, so amazing. I loved Spirited Away as it reminded me of the feelings I get when I see really visually arresting films, like The Fall or Mirrormask.
that was a massive wall of text there
But yeah I remember getting a queasy feelings when Disney announced years ago they were going forward with their own version of Toy Story 3. After the real life massive recall of Mattel and other toys, that really woulda been awkward. I do like *some* inhouse Disney 3d, particularly Chicken Little.
Youre right, theres a lot of Disney tentpole animated features between 1995 and 2004 which were dreadful. Treasure Island, Hunchback, Hercules, Pochahontas, Borther Bear, Home on the Range. I never even saw Mulan. Of the last three decades the ONLY ones I like are Emperor's New Groove, Princess and the Frog, Fantasia 2000, Little Mermaid, Aladdin, Aladdin King of Thieves, Tarzan, and to some extent Lilo and Stitch. Beauty in the Beast, while not my favorite, I can respect immensely.
It's funny, that huge glut of cheapquels they made to 2d films from 1998 til 2009. I think the only ok ones were Lion King 1 1/2 and Tarzan 2. But I also am a huge nerd for ANY Winnie the Pooh movies, even the ones borrowing footage from New Adv.
However, non Disney stuff rocked back in the day. Sorry but I loved Ferngully, Anastasia, American Tail, Brave Little Toaster, etc.
I'm telling ya, Up is the best thing Pixar has ever done and even made me cry! Also, Monsters Vs Aliens, as much as I cant stand Dreamworks animation, is one of the most amazing looking, funny and amazing cgi films Ive ever seen
I don't see how Disney could top Princess and the Frog. I was shocked by how amazing that film felt. Muppets plus fairy tales has always been a huge disaster.
But before that, it was 60 years ago where Disney last made a visionary film based off a fairy tale, Alice in Wonderland. That film should have been shown incessantly to anyone involved in 2d since as the benchmark, as somehow the quality went downhill after that one.
I haven't yet, I plan too soon. (not interested in the blu ray thing, so im glad they released a dvd) As much as I love 80's and early 90's Tim Burton, I just had no interest in seeing the new Alice. But there is something so visually rich and ahead of its time with the original.
I happened to come across this remix of sounds and footage from Alice, which has to be one of the most fantastically hypnotic things Ive heard:
also one done by the same guy for Sword and the Stone:
(Sword of the Stone trips me out, as despite being from 1963 theres a brief scene where the wizard looks like he just came back from the 1980's)
I thought Brave Little Toaster was Disney...
But the 1980's saw some GREAT stuff... Don Bluth's best work was in the 1980's... American tale the first (and only for this fan) Land Before Time... Liked Ferngully too... But I only saw that dreadful Thumbellina because I was dragged to it, and the Animaniacs short at the beginning.
But ENG was one of the best Disney movies past The Lion King. I know a lot of animation snobs whine about how it was gonna be this dry, action movie about a king who loved his country... but I'm in the minority of people who think they did the RIGHT thing messing around and changing the script to be about a spoiled jerk who actually DESERVES to get what's coming to him. Not to mention the snarky little satire of Disney movies they made at the end... making fun of how they either get a larger, scarier transformation (Yzma turning into a cat) and how the villains that don't fall to their deaths (Yzma falling off the palace, but safely getting launched back up on a trampoline). Once I finally got that, I think it was one of the best injokes they ever made. Really liked Lilo and Stitch too.
My sister loves Cowboy Bebop. Has the soundtrack and everything. I have yet to see Mirrormask, actually now that you mention it.
It's great Pixar has gotten involved. They really know what good stroytelling and quality is about. I was a bit skeptical about Disney in the past, but they've gained my trust back. This thing can be really happening. And Disney is sure not to screw us over this time.
The Muppets are back.
Trust me, your sister is right; it's one of the best anime series you'll ever see. If you haven't seen it yet, what are earth are you waiting for?
Anyways, like one poster says, my faith in this movie is growing. As long as the crew learns on why Pixar has never bombed a single feature (and I'm sure the readthrough will remind them why) and remember on what made the first three movies great, then yes, we're in good hands. I trust Disney at what they're doing with the movie right now, and so far, I'm impressed.
Disney is definitely trying to be very careful with the Muppets these days.
Hey, after Muppet Oz, I'd be cautiously careful too.
I still don't really agree with them not finishing or releasing in anyway the Muppet mockumentary... but let's face it... if they released that lame reality show parody, they would have killed the franchise with more jaded crap the likes we saw in OZ.
Disney wants this movie to go smoothly as possible. The franchise's fate rests on it. If the movie does well, that could open up more movies in the future, more TV specials... and maybe, just maybe a TV series somewhere. Not to mention merchandise as far as the eye can see. Hopefully we'll get some great stuff out of this.
See, I thought Muppets Wizard of Oz was kind of cute and had it's entertaining moments.
I felt the same way. Oz was okay, but it felt unfinished. The director really wanted to make it a cinematic piece, but he couldn't get the budget required. That's evident in the CG elements, yet it should not have effected the quality of the story like it did. It was a bit of a mess that needed a few more drafts. I still watch it. It's the last Christmas special that for some reason just doesn't find its way into the DVD player as much as it should. Kind of strange and empty feeling.
I'm glad they're taking this opportunity to take the time to make this new film right. There are already a number of great Muppet films so there's got to be a reason to make this new one. Something to give people a reason to go see it beyond the fact that it features Muppets. That's what's been missing.
Muppet Oz was a loud, crass, jaded eyesore of a movie. The "let's reference stuff at the moment" tie in to American Idol was forced and mechanical. It was Ashanti's movie about how she wanted to be a star, letting the Muppets take second and third place to her.... I forgave Michael Cain (MCC) for that because he's... well... Michael Cain. He actually has the ability to act. The Muppets felt awkward with her around... and over all, it felt like a loud, flashy hallucination that didn't know if it wanted to be a tween movie or a jaded adult movie, leaving us fans out in the cold.
Oh, and there was NO call for it to look like an episode of 1960's Batman. I had a cold at the time, and the last thing I needed was dizzy camera angles.
I liked it at first, but then again, the movie pretty much helped to kill any and all plans Disney had for the Muppets... and again, you can't even blame them. not to mention the dozen of BETTER scripts of better ideas for movies that were never made. Imagine if we got Kermit, Prince of Denmark instead. This film is a sore point for the fan base... sure, if things were better after the film, it wouldn't be as bad... but it took us almost 3 years after it to get a project. THIS is the reason Disney has been very cautious with the Muppets.
Somehow, I just get the notion that Henson signed off on this because they were about to sell the Muppets to Disney, and basically they said, "Okay... uh... they're clearly gonna need us to make something for the stockholders, and we don't have a lot of time to review any scripts... errrr... let's do Wizard of Oz. If it stinks, we're not to blame... we've got our OWN ideas we'll screw up somehow." And basically they rushed the thing into production.
I have a problem with Muppet classic retellings... but at LEAST Jerry Juhl made MCC and MTI better than they could have been... the only others that managed to make it work are the Boom comics writers. But Oz was all over the map. I give it credit for being truer to the book than the famous version... but I take it away for all the lame then current jokes. It had its moments, like the Quentin Tarrentino bit, but it was a jarring eyesore all the way.
I'd say Muppet Oz was seemingly unfinished when shown on TV; but, the DVD made more sense and was better. It seemed a bit rushed; but, Ashanti shouldn't have been a part of it all. I liked it, but will watch something else they've done first.
You know I own the DVD but haven't watched it since I bought it, so I'm going by the version that aired on T.V. From what I remember, yes it did seem a bit rushed, but I felt that way with alot of the recent Muppet productions including the last two Christmas made for T.V. movies, Muppets From Space, etc.
All projects which had potential, but fell flat somewhere either in like someone said, the production budget, the writing, not sure.
I have to say, Muppet Oz is undoubtedly the reason why Corey Edwards was freaking out when they mentioned the word "edgy." Rushed or no rushed, the movie was grasping desperately for different demographics. They wanted jaded adults who remember the Muppets, but would rather see the Muppets cutscenes on Family Guy, Robot Chicken sketches, or (worst of all, and never even funny) college humor dot com cartoons that steal jokes from the other two, making them even longer and less funny. And also, especially due to the pop star stunt casting and forced American Idol tie ins, tweenyboppers who only want to wear Kermit on a shirt because it's retro. And I don't mean it seemed rushed... it WAS! They wanted something so Disney could say "this is what we're planning to do, stockholders." Especially with the pile of better scripts and stories that were piling up.
VMX... well, other than the fact the style of humor is dated, and half of it is an NBC commercial, it manages to be edgy, get the older crowd... but it still worked. MFS, well... that sucked because the director was a schmuck. His masterpiece was the Chipmunk movie... they let the vision of the movie go to the same genius that would later say... "No no NO! Only Garfield should be a CGI semi-anthro character. Everyone else MUST be real! But with super imposed mouths!" Yeah! I bet that's how Kurosawa or Hitchcock would have done it.
LTS, I feel is one of the best projects in years... BUT it seemed like they had a longer special planned, and NBC told them to cut it short by like an hour last minute, leaving them to sort of rush through it. I have a feeling that the real original script had more scenes with the other characters missing Kermit or something. That's what it really needed to make it great... another half hour. but that would mean no "Biggest Loser special: Throw Tomatoes at the Contestants Until they Cry."
That said... if you just showed a bunch of people a C grade loud, obnoxious, current pop culture movie and say "This is what we're gonna do," we wouldn't see so much as a T-shirt! Disney really wants to move on from that debacle and they're being very careful so they can make something that's at LEAST almost MTM quality.
majorly apprehensive itll be a full CGI movie. I will be extremely gutted if it is
As serveral people have said, this will NOT be a full CGI movie. Pixar's only involvement is story consulting.
I hate how a tiny miscommunication or hypothetical gets overblon like that.
Yeah THE MUPPET MOVIE WILL NOT BE CGI for all of those who missed it.
And if I were Disney, I would make it appoint to filter movies through the only people in the company who have made solid movies that consistently become hits especially due to their storytelling. I'm not a gambling man, but after no one wanted to see the Sorcerer's Apprentice (and I can't blame them... how does Nick Cage keep getting work, especially in such crappy movies?) I'd wager that passing scripts to Pixar's storytellers will become a common practice.
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