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Does the Star Trek odd/even movie rule apply to the Muppets?

Discussion in 'Classic Muppets' started by MrsPepper, Jun 14, 2011.

  1. MrsPepper

    MrsPepper Active Member

    ((I'm putting this in Headlines cause it has to do with the newest movie; wasn't sure where else to put it.))

    Most people know about the odd/even rule when it comes to Star Trek movies; when you look at the first ten it's generally accepted that the even numbered ones are better and/or more succesful (though of course this can be debated). I think it can be applied to the muppets too...

    If you look at the six theatrical muppet movies, TMM, GMC, MTM, MCC, MTI, MFS, I overwhelmly prefer the odd numbered ones. Seeing as the new movie will be number seven, do you think this means good things?

    Feel free to debate this rule and tell me you like all the opposite ones or something; I want to know what you guys think. :D
  2. RedPiggy

    RedPiggy Well-Known Member

    Actually, I think the first three pwn the other three, though IMHO, GMC is the best, while numbers 1 and 3 are good. I'm a big fan of Rainbow Connection and He'll Make Me Happy, but other than a few key scenes, they just seem like movies to me with Muppets in it. To me, GMC is ultra-classic Muppets. The thing with the last three is that they're sort of like 1 and 3 ... some neat scenes do not great movies make. On the other hand ... MTI has Tim Curry in it, which gives it lots of extra credit points. The guy is a Muppet in human disguise, LOL.
  3. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I'll agree to that too. The first three movies, all of them, are just... they're just incredible. MCC tries hard and it's a good Christmas movie but it's lacking... MTI is wonderful and overcomes the handicap MCC had with focusing on only humans and new characters. MFS, while I like the direction of the characters playing themselves, and the role of Pepe and the newer characters, it just fell apart due to bad direction and an overly labored script. I assume you're not counting the Sesame Street movies or the DTV's. FTB was marvelous, EIG was good at points, but suffered from trying to be interactive....VMX suffers from dated 2002 pop culture referencing but is a very good TV special in spite of that, KSY I haven't seen and heard bad things about, and MOz was a trainwreck.

    It's not the even odd thing... it's more of a direction, lacking vision thing.
  4. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    No it's pretty much true, lol. I'm saying this as a life long Trekkie. ;)

    Well for the original three Muppet films, yeah actually I do prefer the odds (though GMC does have its moments too). But I'm not a big fan of the rest of the films, even or odd. So ::shrugs:: You're guess is as good as mine! Lol
  5. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    I'm odd. I am not big on Empire Strikes Back, but I LOVE Return of the Jedi(saw it when it first came out to theaters, so I may be biased) and Revenge of the Sith.
    I also love the new Star Trek but dislike the Next Generation films

    Muppet theatrical films, I LOVE the Muppet Movie and Muppets Take Manhattan like nobody's business. I'm not big on GMC, and am not very keen on MCC or MTI. MFS I actually have grown to like, and I love the first act.
  6. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    Well, I honestly prefer GMC to MTM. And also, in the UK, MCC is actually the 'go to' film for Muppet memories for almost all of my generation. They'll have seen that one, even if they've seen nothing else.
  7. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I like all of them, but it'll be a cold cold day before I recognize MupOz for anything besides the Quentin Tarantino cameo. HE should have directed the thing.
  8. TML

    TML Active Member

    I think that GMC is the pinnacle of the Muppets for sure. Best songs, biggest dance routines, and the most Muppets in meaty roles rather than cameos. Best jokes too. Fantastic!
  9. matleo

    matleo Active Member

    I think the answer here is to each their own. For me, I think the first Muppet Movie is one of the most personal things Jim ever did and I think every thing that he wanted people to get out of the Muppets is in THAT movie. Consequently it set the standard for the other films.

    Caper is the funniest of the Muppet films and also the one that makes the most use of the various characters. It is actually my all time favorite film.

    MTM is the weak one for me. It's a Kermit movie with other Muppets in it, so it's hard ot think of as a "Muppet" movie.

    MCC and MTI both have some very strong points, but because they're adaptations where the characters PLAY characters it takes a little of the fun out. However, a lot of the camera work in tose films is awesome and being able to utilize the studios and raised up sets gives them a lot of latitude they hadn't been able to use before. The costume design in those two fils are brilliant. And I think MCC is some of Jerry Nelson's BEST work!! Dave also does a great job with the narrative in MCC and Steve gets some real nice stuff in with Kermit in MTI.

    MFS.....well, when I walked out of it, I never cared if I ever aw another Muppet Movie again. I figured form that point on I would just enjoy the great work that had been done and let it be what it was.

    As for the new movie, I'm REALLY super excited about it and I really want this to be great not just for me, but for them. We've all seen the Pizza Hut commercials, the cage dancing Scooters, the Disney channel specials, the odd non-Steve Kermit appearances, and the Cat Cora things and we've seen how bad it can get. But we've also seen Bohemian Rhapsody and the other videos, and the stuff on the website and the return of beloved characters and we know it can still be good. So here's to hoping.
  10. Frogpuppeteer

    Frogpuppeteer Well-Known Member

    im actually watching GMC on showtime as a write this...i love all muppet movies good and bad...yea ive been disappointed but ill stand behind my first fanbase till the end.

    to me GMC is the stand out whenever im in the mood for a Muppet movie its the one i always reach for first. close second is MTM and muppet movie is always a Classic in my book
  11. TML

    TML Active Member

    I agree with matleo, I have always felt of the three classic films that MTM was the weakest. Not as funny or puppety and not enough of the other Muppets.
  12. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I always thought MCC was a good movie, a good Christmas movie, a well written and directed movie, but not that great of a Muppet movie due to the prolonged interaction between humans. It's like... Fozzie comes up and says, "I got a rubber chicken factory! Now here's a long musical interlude between Scrooge and the girl that he lost!" If it wasn't for Gonzo and Rizzo hosting the thing, I'd swear it was just a Henson Creature Shop re-envisioning of Christmas Carol with Muppet guest stars. A well done creature shop movie, but not a Muppet movie. I love the Ghost of Christmas Present, but the OTHER ghosts should have been a lot more Muppety. MTi was far superior, if only because the new Muppet pirate characters made the film. Though I still wish they got a less effeminate Jim Hawkins. One that isn't an alto.

    MFS suffered from a labored script, forced Sci-Fi theme (1999: If you weren't copying/referencing Star Wars, you had "All Star" in the soundtrack), and above all, a hack director. I take it back. A FUTURE hack director. This was his first outing not doing anything for Nickelodeon. And in years to come, he would make bad, barely successful kid's movies. What's it mean when your masterwork is Alvin and the Chipmunks? You know what will make a Muppet movie poor? Give it to someone who thinks eating fecal matter in children's movies is high art (Alvin's "raisin" scene and Hop's protagonist crapping jelly beans). Joey was ticked off at how the director ruined the best parts of the movie, and I'm gonna side with him. But it was probably a bad idea to do a sci-fi movie in the first place.
  13. Phillip

    Phillip Administrator Staff Member

    I moved this thread to the "Classic Muppets" since it deals mostly with the first six films.

    Thanks for starting the discussion.
    MrsPepper likes this.
  14. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    That honestly never bothered me. It's not about quantity of screentime but the quality. And MTM has so much emotion and heart between all the Muppet characters it's incredible. And the sort of quasi love triangle between Kermit, Piggy and Jenny really gave the movie a sophisticated edge (while still retaining the silly of course, hehe).
  15. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    These figures were discussed earlier on the Muppet Mindset

    1st movie TMM did the best
    2nd movie GMC fared 2nd best
    3rd movie MTM fared 3rd best
    5th movie MTI fared 4th best
    4th movie MCC fared 5th best
    6th movie MFS fared 6th best

    I predict that the 7th move, considering the inflation adjustments, will at least be the second best-performing Muppet movie.


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