Edgier Muppets?

[Salmoto]

After reading an article in the latest issue of Entertainment Weekly, I'm a little apprehensive about watching the new Muppet TV movie on NBC. THe article says the movie was co-written by Simpsons writer Tom Martin and directed by Kirk Thatcher, who wrote Muppet Treasure Island. The rearranging of filmmaking roles is enough to make me queasy, but there's more. The article goes on to describe edgy, bordering on Simpsons-esque scenes featuring the Muppets. There's a scene where Scooter cage dances at a rave party (I wish I made that up), a scene where Animal funnel-chugs egg-nog and a scene where Kermit explores a relationship with a human woman. We all know about the deleted scene featuring the Electric Mayhem and Snoop Dogg, but there was another deleted scene where Pepe's flirting with Joan Cusack got a little too rowdy, as well as a scene featuring stereotypical irishmen.

In the end I suppose the film will be pretty good and it's only the Sam Eagle in me worrying that maybe these aren't the Muppets I know and love. But what concerns me is that maybe there's too much experimenting on Muppet personalities and no recognition of the traits that made them so fun to begin with. I mean, Scooter? Cage dancing? I admit it sounds funny, but it better be because someone bullied him into that cage rather than he voluntairily took up go-go. Animal can do what he wants, it always looks good. I think since his acceptance into the main group from Muppets Tonight Pepe the Prawn is slowly turning into the anti-Kermit. He is a shameless self-promoter and oppertunist, who hounds at women and has no problems advertising the sale of his own kind. Claerly his edginess is as out of control as Bean Bunny's cuteness. Any change they made to Kermit won't be as drastic, but a relationship with someone other than Piggy? He's not a shut-in but Kermit prefers to be on gentle terms with everyone, Piggy makes him nervous with all her flirtations, yet somehow the frog got over it for want of a human co-star? it just don't click right to me.

The Muppets are certainly not kiddie faire, as seen on various TV interviews and outtakes (In the Jim Frawley test, what Piggy said happened to Miss Mousey was just gruesome) but still things have never been taken to this extreme before. The article states that since the Muppets are innately known as having alot of heart, they were going to skip that aspect and go straight for comedy. Meaning there probably won't be any sweet, friendly moments between the characters in this movie. After all ,there are 2 other Muppet christmas productions to fall back on should this one make a stink.....I kinda wish they'd move on to another holiday at this point....but I suppose that's a rant for another time.

 

[DrGoshposh]

I hear you loud and clear.

The Muppets are family entertainment, but it seems that people who make TV shows and movies aimed at a family audience feel that the program is unattractive to adults unless there is something distinctly adult about it. The eggnog-chugging and cage-dancing are examples of these "adult things," though cynicism and curse words are also stand-bys. It is as if they are afraid adults will tune the program out unless the characters do something wild, or say "****" (that is the "D" word in the quotes, by the way).

There's nothing wrong with any of these things, but they are not what the Muppets are all about. Their humor has always been split-level, but still classy.

I honestly think these questionable portions of the Christmas movie are minute, but have been trumped up by Henson to let EW readers know that it's not just kiddie fare. I think we can expect a fun, light, happy movie. However, I do think the Muppets will adopt a more edgy and adult style if this FOX show ever is made. Again, edgy isn't bad, but it's not the Muppets. They don't have to be dirty to be appealing, but it seems that some people in the Henson organization may need to be convinced of that.

The Muppets play it safe, and are clean. If you change that, then you change what makes them who they are and why we love them.

Scott

 

[frogboy4]

Cage dancing and chugging Christmas eggnog are racy?The Muppets have done weirder things than that. Heck, ocult rocker Alice Cooper appeared on The Muppet Show, Gonzo is the ultimate masochist - shooting himself out of cannons and other painful activities. He also has been known to put starfish and other things in his shorts. And don't forget the leather chaps Seymour wore on Muppets Tonight! That always cracks me up (pun intended).

Pepe rocks. Not every character needs to be Kermit. I don't see the problem. I think he's funny. And Kermit has flirted with female human costars before. This is nothing new. I'm also glad that Scooter's getting his groove on. He's only dancing in a cage. The Muppets have danced in stranger places, Besides, Scooter seems like a raver to me. Wonder if he traded in his glasses for some shades in that scene.

And nothing can be more offensive than Paula Abdul dressing the cast up in skin-tight pink and green vinyl suits. Ugh!

Just my thoughts. I just think y'all are confusing The Muppet Show with Sesame Street. Yeah, they're edgier now, but all of entertainment is. To ignore that wouldn't be wise and I don't think they've lost their heart in the process. We'll have to wait and see. I think we're all jumping the gun a bit.

We're all entitled to our opinions and they are certainly valid. I just feel there's nothing to become of the Muppets remaining stagnant. They have been known to evolve and this is just another point in their evolution.

 

[Luke]

Originally posted by DrGoshposh
The Muppets are family entertainment, but it seems that people who make TV shows and movies aimed at a family audience feel that the program is unattractive to adults unless there is something distinctly adult about it.

Speaking as someone who makes TV shows you kinda have to realise that the Muppets haven't been that attractive a property since Jim died and the interest in them, and audience figures have been low - especially in the audience range you would expect them to score most highly in - Kids. It's true that they have become stagnant to a point and that isn't going to get them far, before long any TV interest would dry up and whoever owned them would just retire the brand and make money off the tape library.

What Henson are trying to do is go mainly for the nostaglia audience of 20-30's at a time when that area is a boom one while still hopefully hanging onto the family thing. It's the reason why there's been some interest in them this year and the anniversary promotion has worked. They do have to give the Muppets a little more edge but i think you'll find the Xmas movie will just be a gradual change leading you into the Fox show where they'll be totally 100% comedy and fast paced (i would imagine without the tender moments) but i don't see them as becoming dirty or rude.

I think people will like the Xmas movie a heck of a lot - it's good they are trying a new updated style and it looks like it'll be a laugh a second !

 

[GWGumby]

I too am one who disliked the words "adult" and "edgy" when applied to comedy because usually that means bathroom and bedroom jokes over clever, original comedy.

However, anyone who thinks the Muppets are nothing but heart and showtunes, never fully understood what the Muppets really were. They were also irreverant misfits who attempt to get along despite their quarrels, arguments, flubs, foibles, and strongly clashing personalities. And that's where most of their greatest comedy stems from, which at times could definitely be categorized as "edgy" and "adult." If they were only for kids, they never would have had as many guest celebrities and star cameos as they got.

Anyway, I would guess that the descriptions and examples used in the article are really taking things out of context. Kinda like using Janice's lines about "walking around naked" and "taking her clothes off" in the Muppet movies to advertise those movies. Yes, those lines are in it, but they aren't accurately indicative of the content or humor of the movies. Like how action film trailers always show a glimpse of a half-naked woman to suggest that the movie is full of them, when that may be the only shot of its kind in the film.

 

[Salmoto]

I'm not so worried about the Muppets trying new material as I am letting it get too close as it is to the rest of the outside culture. THings have changed since the Henson days, the world is into potty jokes and pining over things like Winona Ryder getting arrested. For me, watching the Muppets, even the slightly more adult Muppets from MT made the storm seem a little calmer. I may not want Kermit to turn stale but I don't want him to be a green Bart Simson either. For years the Henson company has been known for it's unique approach to entertainment, unique, not copying current trends in entertainment. The handling of the franchise by simpsons writers and Austin Powers producers makes me worried indeed. This is the kinda thing that happened to the Looney Tunes in Space Jam.

 

[GWGumby]

Originally posted by Salmoto
This is the kinda thing that happened to the Looney Tunes in Space Jam.

You've got some great points. Messing with established characters to make them "hipper" is what ruins many licenses, as seen in Space Jam and many other attempted cartoon spin-offs and remakes. I think we can see from all of Kermit's appearances, that the characters are remaining for the most part intact. We know their personalities, and they continue to maintain those personalities. So it will be the situations these characters are placed in which will determine whether they are deemed "edgy" and new, nostalgic and worn, or somewhere in-between.

 

[frogboy4]

It seems that everyone is really rushing to judgement here. Shoulcn't we just wait and see what happens? Two months ago people were complaining that KSY kiddified the Muppets and now y'all think they'll be too edgy. We just have to wait and see what happens. It is bizarre how everything seems to have been blown out of proportion.

 

[Ryan]

Okay, here's my thoughts:
I can understand where all of you come from...but, Jamie's right...Muppets have been much more racy...I mean, check out a lot of the stuff from the 70's (besides TMS and SS) a lot of it is for an adult audience. Take for example, Land of Gorch, a world of drugs, scandal, and well...yes I'll say it...puppets having s*x on TV. We've got to realize that Jim wasn't about kid's entertainment. I mean, would you rather see The Muppet Babies Christmas Movie? I doubt it. Muppets were always edgy.

Now, the Scooter thing...well, is a little too much for me. I mean, I can get that it is just for a laugh (BTW, is there a laugh track on this film?) ..but usually when you hear "rave", you think of a drug party (or, at least, I do.). That is a tad too much. Maybe the magazine was misinformed. Either way, I'm sure it will be at least interesting.

 

[frogboy4]

I agree. That was always Jim's dilemma - he was always pegged as a children's performer. And people still peg puppets as kid's fare. The Muppets always had more dimension than that and (until Jim's departure) always reflected the times. I feel some people want to keep the characters in some sort of time capsule. It that's the case, than no new programs should be made because you can't recapture an era. Jim Henson was always about the evolution of an idea.

By the way, for those of you worried about the updated hipness of the Muppets: '''It's about being true to our characters and not trying to make them ridiculously hip.'' Recalls ''Simpsons'' vet Tom Martin, who cowrote the ''Muppet Christmas'' screenplay...' From the EW article. I don't think there's any cause to worry.

As for the rave/drug comment, well...The Electric Mayhem, y'all. From the origins of Floyd's spiral eyes to Zoot's "out of it" behavior, the Electric Mayhem have had some subtle references to drug use. Of course it was never promoted and went over the heads of kids. So I don't think Scooter simply dancing at a rave for 2.5 seconds is a very big deal. Maybe he's in the cage to get away from the drug users. LOL! Hey, Ken! Can we get Raver Scooter?