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Elmo Muppeteer Kevin Clash resigns from Sesame Street

Discussion in 'Sesame Street' started by brkndwnbus, Nov 20, 2012.

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  1. heralde Well-Known Member

    Fair enough.

    I think the key phrase here is "like nothing happened." Forgiveness to me does not mean forgetting or not holding a person responsible. It just means not holding anger in your heart.
  2. MelissaY1 Well-Known Member

    Well said, Heralde. I enjoy Kevin's work and his characters, and you can't deny his talent. ****, we still don't even know if all this is true or not, but I agree, people have to learn how to separate the character from the performer. I can't stand reading how "Elmo" did this, etc. in the media lately. Elmo didn't do anything. Elmo's not real lol

    It's like my husband and I discuss Michael Jackson all the time and what happened with his whole scandal, etc. We both agree we can still enjoy his music and just not like the man for what he did. There are tons of actors, musicians, etc. who I really don't like them as PEOPLE from what I've seen firsthand or heard, but I can still enjoy their movies, etc.
    heralde likes this.
  3. MelissaY1 Well-Known Member

    I still don't understand how you couldn't.
  4. heralde Well-Known Member

    Well no one said it was easy. And it's not something you only do once and it's over. It's a decision you make everyday. But again it does not mean not holding someone responsible.
  5. MelissaY1 Well-Known Member

    I guess.....
  6. Hubert Well-Known Member

    I agree with heralde there, it's not so much not holding someone responsible...they still need to pay the consequences. However, that doesn't mean that you need to hold that thing against them forever. That's an example of forgiveness...still being sad and dissapointed with them, but at the same time, also not holding that against them for life and labeling them forever as a bad person.

    Thinking about this, I continue to be brought back to a story I heard earlier this year about a drunk driver who collided with young woman's car, ending up killing her. The man was arrested, but the girl's mother mustered up enough courage to visit that man in jail, and tell him, 'I forgive you for killing my daughter'. The man was so moved by this outreach of kindness that that act made him make a commitment to turn his life around. The man is now out of jail, and the man and mother are very good friends, and actually go around sharing their story to touch people's lives. That is forgiveness in a nutshell. The mother decided to not hold the man accountable in her heart for the action. Sure, we can assume that she never forgot it, nor tried to say that he wasn't responsible for his action, but the important thing was that personally, she chose to tell the man "look, I know you goofed up, and I'm still dissapointed in your actions, but I still believe you're a good person and I'm not going to let that one action be the cover to my perception of you."
    DrDientes and Muppet fan 123 like this.
  7. MelissaY1 Well-Known Member

    Drunk driving is a mistake, yes. But willfully abusing a child, killing a person, etc. I'm sorry does not warrant forgiveness. If I was a parent, there would be no chance I would "forgive" or reach out to the person who killed or harmed my child in any way. I'd do everything to make sure that person stayed locked up, or wish them a slow, painful death. I don't think that's being unforgiving, I think that's being realistic. I know people handle things differently and everyone's entitled to deal with grief, etc. in their own way, but sorry if you're doing something to hurt one of my loved ones, I'm not forgiving you.
  8. inturnaround Member

    I don't think you can forgive someone until and unless they acknowledge they did something wrong.

    Even then, forgiveness is something freely given and not something anyone can expect from everyone. I'm a fan of the Philadelphia Eagles whose main quarterback is Michael Vick. Some people have forgiven him, some people haven't. That's the way the world works.
  9. heralde Well-Known Member

    Well that's not exactly what I said. A person may remain a bad (or more accurately disturbed) person for the rest of their lives and perhaps you can't have them around you anymore. Forgiveness does not mean forgetting.

    Well now we're getting into morality and philosophical debates, lol. All I can say is, it's easy to forgive someone when they're sorry. For me, forgiveness is for people who don't deserve it. Who needs it more than them?
    terrimonster likes this.
  10. Hubert Well-Known Member

    I definitely agree that you can't expect forgiveness from anyone. It's hard to forgive, really hard. I like how you say "truly given" because it really is a gift that only some are able to offer. But I do believe that it is worth the while.
  11. aaronmojo Member

    I'm not sympathizing with anyone - all I'm saying is that everyone here is quick to defend Kevin Clash and tear down his accusers, when in the first place, Clash admitted there was contact between him and the first guy, so there was some truth to that story (and it appears the guy was paid off to go away); second, Clash has quit his hugely successful and lucrative career at Sesame Street (whether of his own volition or whether Sesame said "quit or you're fired"); third, knowing victims of abuse personally, it is extremely hard to be the first victim to come out. Once someone else blazes that trail, it's far easier from an emotional standpoint to say "hey, this happened to me, too."

    This whole situation is terrible. I'm not talking about forgiveness or anything - it's not my place to forgive any of the people involved here since they didn't do anything to me - but I will say it's easy to say "forgive and forget" when you aren't the one who was personally involved.

    From my standpoint, as an emotionally well-adjusted grown man who has careers as a freelance puppeteer and illustrator, Kevin Clash was one of my personal heroes - especially after seeing Being Elmo - and, well, now he's not. He's had quite a career but I don't have the admiration for him that I did before. Maybe I will at some point. I dunno. Like I said - this whole situation is terrible.

    Kevin Clash was in a position where he needed to be above reproach, and unfortunately it looks like he wasn't.
    inturnaround likes this.
  12. inturnaround Member

    With respect, by definition, people who don't deserve forgiveness don't deserve forgiveness. And if they don't deserve it, I really don't care what they need.

    But it's not my place to forgive anything. I wasn't harmed.

    It's just, real talk here, guys...this is exactly the kind of thing that happened with Michael Jackson fans. People were blinded to his shortcomings because they felt they grew up with them or knew him and knew they couldn't possibly do anything so bad...or, if he did, it had to be the fault of the people who put him in that situation. Blaming everyone but him.

    And the more accusers there are, the less and less likely it is in my eyes that there nothing there.
  13. heralde Well-Known Member

    Like I said, that's a morality debate; a much larger issue. I respectfully agree to disagree. Forgiveness means nothing when we only give it to those who are sorry. That's a comparatively easy thing to do.

    In any case, again, forgiveness does not mean not holding someone accountable.
  14. Hubert Well-Known Member

    See, when I'm talking about "accountable," I'm talking about it being something different than "responsible." Holding someone responsible, in my mind, means that you feel they should still pay the consequences (which I believe they should). Holding someone accountable, in my opinion, isn't that, but rather responsible in your heart. Maybe accountable isn't the correct word for it, but you get the idea there.
  15. dwayne1115 Well-Known Member

    I would think that it would be easier to forgive someone then to forget what they have done. I could sit here and say I Forgive you all day long...but me forgeting what has been done is something completely different.
    heralde likes this.
  16. Hubert Well-Known Member

    Exactly. Forgiving and forgetting are not the same thing. When you forgive, you don't completely dismiss the event(s) like they never happened.
    heralde likes this.
  17. MelissaY1 Well-Known Member

    Michael Vick is a perfect example. I know he did his jail time, etc. but I'm sorry he killed innocent dogs, and he should not be playing football making millions of dollars. He's a horrific person. And that wasn't an "accident" like a drunk driver, he was knowngly training those dogs, doing harm to them. He should be die in a fire.
  18. dwayne1115 Well-Known Member

    He has not had the greatest time since comeing out of jail, I think they may have benched him, because of the losses of the team,
    MelissaY1 likes this.
  19. heralde Well-Known Member

    You're not a bad person; you shouldn't think bad thoughts about others. You're better than that. That's all I'm saying.
    MelissaY1 likes this.
  20. MelissaY1 Well-Known Member

    Good! lol
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