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Entire Fraggle Five on Ebay!

Discussion in 'Puppets For Sale' started by rtgentry, May 19, 2009.

  1. rtgentry

    rtgentry Well-Known Member

  2. Nick22

    Nick22 Well-Known Member

    might be the next thing up on my list :D
  3. MGov

    MGov Well-Known Member

    Seems it's been removed.
  4. rickly

    rickly Active Member

    SHOULD be removed. A blatant copyright infringement. Like the Kermits and Robins this "Puppetmancan" also sells. Unethical and just plain illegal. He is not selling off bits of his own personal collection, or things that sort of vaguely look like Fraggles - he is selling rip-offs of someone else's intellectual property for a profit. Shame on him! I know he posts around here, so if you're lurking and see this, Puppetmancan, shame on you! Make and sell your own puppets! You clearly have skills.

  5. rtgentry

    rtgentry Well-Known Member

    Hmm, I wish people would take the plank out of their eye before they point out the speck in another's. Does that go for "BUYING" as well? :concern:
  6. MGov

    MGov Well-Known Member

    Personally, I just want to be consistent. I've worked hard on my puppets, my writing, shorts and features, and I don't want anyone taking any credit or monetary gain that they don't deserve for the time and work I've put into it all. I'm a firm believer in respecting other people's intellectual property rights. I guess I don't understand people that think there are "levels" that are okay to take advantage of other people's work for their own gain.
  7. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    It's just hard for me to be upset about some of these wonderful pieces even though I know it's not really right to be profiting from them. They aren't being mass produced and Henson & Muppet properties have a history of being light on licensed merchandise. That seems to be changing now.

    If someone told me I could have an authentic-looking Scooter puppet for a couple hundred dollars it would be hard for me to pass up. I find these kinds of items to be specific to a buyer and usually not in competition with anything available on the market. Some of them appear to be quality made.

    In the end, no. It isn't right. It's just hard for me not to be delighted to see this stuff out there. However, if this were my intellectual property I would likely feel much different. And that's the point I guess.

    (Still, this stuff is awesome!)
  8. Melonpool

    Melonpool Well-Known Member

    I'll start worrying about repecting intellectual property as far as these reproductions go when I stop hearing every puppeteer on the Internet doing the "Look! There are people under us" gag.

    If that isn't stealing the Muppet's intellectual property, I don't know what is. I don't care that no one's making money off of it -- do your own gags!
  9. Buck-Beaver

    Buck-Beaver Well-Known Member

    Ha, ha. :)

    That really is an overused gag, although puppeteers were probably doing some version of it long before the Muppets.
  10. CoOKiE

    CoOKiE Well-Known Member

    honestly if i saw a production THEN i can see where the wrong is... but when a fan wants one as a collection piece... i can't see where its wrong because, as an artist, it shows devotion.

    I honestly dont know this, so dont hold it against me.. but i dont think that the muppeteers make money from EVERY thing that is made with their character.

    but i dont wanna get into this again
  11. Show and Tell

    Show and Tell Well-Known Member

    There really is no gray area here! Whats right is right. Whats wrong is wrong. The law is pretty clear here. Doesnt matter how bad we want the other guys stuff. I can ignore my conscience all i want but in the end its not what i can get away with that matters most, its what is right. Honestly. I love Jim's work as much as anyone else here. The man was an absolute genious but his work is his and if i break the law by producing replicas to sell, what does that say about me, my integrity, or my creativity. All of us "would be artists" or "geniouss" would do better to expend that brain power on our own work. If i replicated for sale a muley, or anyone elses work here, noone would think i was some great builder.(evem though muley is a great looking puppet) But do the same with Henson work and people are climbing the walls after it. I just dont understand this thinking. Do you honestly think Jim would be honored by anyone selling illegal copies of his work?
  12. Melonpool

    Melonpool Well-Known Member

    Wasn't there a story about Jim Henson hearing about a non-licensed Kermit being sold in Mexico? It was either that someone bought it for him or he bought it himself. I could be mistaken, though. It might have been Walt Disney or Charles Schulz I'm thinking of.
  13. CoOKiE

    CoOKiE Well-Known Member

    u can't say whats right is right... everyones opinions are different.
  14. rtgentry

    rtgentry Well-Known Member

    Just because you believe something or have an opinion doesnt make you right. There is one right and one wrong, one truth and one lie. If your opinion is that air doesnt exist. Does that mean that air is not real? lol that was just kind of a silly quote. No offense intended.
  15. Show and Tell

    Show and Tell Well-Known Member

    TSHshzzz...there goes another conscience, seered clean off! Duh! If your breaking the law then its a good indication your doing something wrong. And just for the record Mr. Henson buying illegal replicas of his own work is still wrong. Thats why we have copyright laws, to protect against people gaining from anothers work.
  16. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    There are greater injustices in the world than a private seller composing an individual unlicensed puppet and selling it to a private collector for the cost of labor and materials. These aren't being built for some great profit or competing with licensed product. It appears to be a labor of love from a fan. Heck, if I had the cash, I'd buy some, but I would much rather prefer to get legitimate posers. I have already invested in all three MR photo Muppets and hope the line continues.

    It isn't technically right, but if I knew for a fact that a Scooter replica would not hit the market in the next several years and I had the cash - I would consider buying one from a builder and would have a clean conscience about it. I do respect the opinions of other forum members on this issue. Still, I don't think any of us should pass judgment on another's character or moral fortitude. Every single one of us breaks some sort of law or ignores instruction from our chosen theology every day - none of us is perfect in the eyes of religious or judicial institutions. So let's just leave that part out of it.

    IMHO it boils down to – is some one being hurt by such actions? Let’s say I commissioned a Dr. Teeth from a (fictional) next door neighbor who happened to be a puppet builder. Let’s say I paid him for his time and materials and used the replica for a display piece in my private collection of Muppet stuff at home and snapped a few photos for my Facebook page, but no videos or performances of him. I see nothing unethical about it on a human level. Heck, I’ve broken the bank my entire life on official Muppet items and will continue to do so. However, I do wish my next door neighbor was a puppet guy and that I did have a lot of cash. Either way, I do not so the point is moot for the foreseeable future. Still, I do have a conscience and such a thing as described wouldn’t bother it.

    However, listing these items on commercial sites like Ebay and Amazon does bother me.
  17. practicecactus

    practicecactus Well-Known Member

    Hmm, been a few months since the last replica debate of course there had to be a new one.

    I still don't see what everyone is getting their panties in a knot over.
    I can make a 1932 ford from new production parts. From businesses that are there specifically to make reproduction chassies and bodies of an actual car that existed. Make a full car from new parts, made exactly like the original model. Buy it, put it on the road legitimately, sell it, it's a real car. But it's not ok to just buy a muppet puppet?

    Here's one for naysayers, what if someone bought a Master Replicas poser, and converted it to a puppet and one day decided to sell it. Where would you stand on that?
  18. Melonpool

    Melonpool Well-Known Member

    I've kind of wondered the same thing about my modified Muppet puppets. Now, I realize that they've never produced a Gonzo puppet, but I have had some pretty good success in converting an Eden Toys Gonzo into something that's more on-model with the real Gonzo, and is now a puppet instead of a plush toy.

    The puppet uses 90% of the original toy (I just removed the stuffing and replaced the eyes and mouthplate). Could I theoretically sell this on Ebay if I wanted to? I would think that it would make a heckuva lot more than an off-the-shelf Gonzo... but it's mostly a licensed product.

    Just curious more than anything.
  19. Show and Tell

    Show and Tell Well-Known Member

    guess i hold to a different standard than some. Although your right that i shouldnt judge the person, i do see it necessary to judge the action. I dont believe it ok to look for loop-holes in the sys. I sleep better not having to make excuses for myself. But thats me.
  20. puppetmancan

    puppetmancan Well-Known Member

    This is so sad. I'm so sick of people like you in america. They use god as a crutch to try to control others actions. What's right is right. You're mixed up. Due to people that have strong, uneducated and judgemental views they really mess things up for everyone, and turn a fun forum into judgement zone. And biblically who gives you the right to even judge actions. Your post was so sprititually arrogant and prideful. You passive aggressively stated you're better than everyone "different standard...don't have to make exuses for yourself". It is this frame of mind why i left the ministry. Love thy brother? Go ointo the world and preach the good news of the gospal? Haven't read anything good or positive in your postings. Please stop preaching. No one is going to pass an offering plate for you. Until i can marry my same sex partner who i dearly love, I don't want to hear comments from people like you who say right is right. STOP making judgement calls. Its not helping your cause.

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