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Discussion in 'Henson People' started by dwmckim, Jul 20, 2012.
And here's the kicker...
The Berenstain Bears have actual Christian values books now.
According to this article, the statement on the Berenstain Bears site was removed on Tuesday. It's present on the site now. Hmm.
It'd be cool if one of the books CFA is distributing taught the Christian values of "Judge not lest ye be judged" and "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."
(Spit take!) THOSE exist?!?
Oh wait. They do. I forgot, because they're major teachings instead of some lame poorly translated footnote.
Yeah, I've been seeing those down the book/magazine aisle at these really big, Satanic warehouse-esque grocery stores that seem to keep popping up everywhere.
Here's an interesting article from a Christian-based mind that I actually kind of sort of support.
Apparently the FRC only got a pittance compared to some of the other inflammatory groups like Focus on the Family, Exodus and others. Money was still given and their slanderous statements likening gays to sex offenders, pedophiles and terrorists are quoted. I disagree with the notion that this is entirely a CFA issue and not a Cathy one when it was his statements representing the chain that began the discourse in the first place.
For the record:
I completely support freedom of speech; however it is unwise for any business to promote the subjugation of another group’s rights and beliefs. It forces their employees and business partners to pick a side in a debate that they want no part of and it encourages the opposition to use their freedoms to push back.
That's one thing that's always bothered me about gay stereotypes is when it always involves sex offenders and pedophiles... heck, I was bothered by a really heavy topic about homosexuality quite a long time ago where a friend of mine actually said, "Gay people are gay because they were molested as children"... that is an absolutely ridiculous stereotype that I don't even see any proof of evidence of that even remotely supports it... I happen to know someone who had the misfortunate of being sexually assaulted when she was just a tot, and that person today is straight as an arrow, so I really don't know where people even get the idea that molestation, rape, sexual assault, etc leads to homosexuality, but I think it's a really stupid idea.
Okay, here comes a long post...
While I'm still really on the fence about this, I will say that you're wrong if you think this is just an issue that a small fringe agrees with and that most Christians disagree with. I mean, just look at the photos from yesterday. Did anybody see this coming??? My dad and I went at about 8:30 and it took us 45 minutes to get through the drive-thru and the line of people eating in stretched outside the building. Seriously. It was crazy so I just wanted to point that out. And really, I don't think those people should be called bigots or homophobes. They only supported a biblical value that Chick-Fil-A stated.
Can I request something? I would to see evidence of financial records that the money is going to the organizations you've stated. Because if this has been going on for a while, why has it suddenly turned into an issue now? Because I have yet to see any actual evidence.
And here's what really gets me. The fact that this is the issue. Seriously, there is a problem when Christians care more about supporting Chick Fil A and being against homosexuality than, oh say, helping the homeless and the needy. The question WWJD? is asked a lot. But, while other Christians think he'd be hanging out CFA giving out high fives, I don't believe that at all. He'd probably be down in the slums where homeless people are. He'd be feeding them, healing them, and loving them. And Christians are supposed to be like Jesus Christ. But, no, we're more concerned with buying a #5 with a lemonade at CFA. We're more concerned with spending almost $7 to support a company that is against gay marriage. And we don't even give a dime to people who actually need it! Frankly, this ticks me off.
Christians are known more for what we're against then what we're for. We're against abortion, we're against homosexuality, we're against lying. We should be known for more for what we support, which are the same things Jesus supported, like love, grace, mercy, forgiveness, compassion. People don't see Jesus in Christianity today, they just see Christians.
I'll end with this: “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’- Matthew 25:45.
Thank you for posting this. I may disagree with your stance on same-sex marriage and homosexuality, but I definitely agree with you on the point of devoting time and money to those that need it more is more important. I wish more people, regardless of faith or non-faith, took that sort of attitude that you show here.
I am not a religious person, but I would think that you speak for a lot of Christians when you discuss how they are perceived. I guess some people are more concerned with "social issues" than genuine help.
I believe it comes from the assumption that homosexuality is a disorder, and that something terrible must have happened to turn "those people" into such deviants. It doesn't stand up to close examination.
Here's a non-controversial example of NOT screwing up.
The Simpsons has had a wonderful partnership with Nestle for years. We all remember the Butterfinger commercials, and they had a number of tie ins to Butterfingers, including candy bars that not only had Bart on the wrapper, but even had Bart shaped candy on Valentines Day. Heck, the Who Shot Mr. Burns had a contest that tied into that.
You knew what ended that? A LAME joke. They made some unfunny bit about burning the candy saying "not even the fire wants them" and Nestle felt insulted and left. Now we don't have Kandy wrappers, Kommercials, or Kontests featuring Krusty the Klown (or anyone else). All for a LAME joke.
Long story short... don't upset partners, don't upset customers. There's a Funny or Die I can't post here about John Goodman as Colonel Sanders welcoming gays into his fast food joints, and then turning to the camera and saying something to the extent of "It doesn't matter... I just see everyone as a bunch of walking mouths with money."
As for free speech... long explanation short, it doesn't give you the right from retaliation. People who disagree have just as much a right to speak. JHC, the Mayor of Boston, and Berenstain Bears (who are slowly turning overtly Christian, so guess how it makes CFA look) are using the same rights that CFA's CEO had.
: "How can jhou resist?"
Actually, their partnership was terminated before the episode, allowing them to bite the hand that fed then. I mean, by then, The Simpsons were a household name and didn't need the support and publicity Butterfinger gave them originally.
The “support” of “Christians” at CFA yesterday is not a proper litmus test. The same claim will likely be made by Marriage Equality supporters that plan to kiss in front of CFA restaurants tomorrow. Also, here's a little perspective from some of their gay employees on the issue. We could all do a better job in how we treat one another!
A few Mayoral statements of intent aside, no rational Marriage Equality supporter is against God, Family or Traditional Marriage. There is no attempt to subjugate anyone's deeply-held Christian beliefs by us. We respect those! We are not against anything. The same cannot be said for CFA and the organizations they support that have been trying to silence and oppress gay men and women for years.
Why has this become such an issue now? Well, the president of the company decided to shine a spotlight on Gay Marriage and kept reaffirming that stance. A lot of us knew that their “faith-based values” excluded gays, but few knew how far it went. CFA’s tax filings can easily be found on Politico or in any simple Google search. Those are not and never have been contested by the company. They’ve proudly admitted to it. Here is one of their public filings. You can search for the rest.
I agree that Christians should represent what they support rather than what they’re against. The CFA nutters are poor representations of true Christian values.They perfectly illustrate the point when personal views grow into intolerance. There is a difference.
A Christian can be morally against something without having to rub it in the faces of those whom they oppose or support the legislative subjugation of their rights based on Biblical principles.
I agree that more money should go into charities and to helping the poor. That’s where the focus should be. Funny enough, many of the same extreme right wing Christians pushing for anti-gay legislation are also pushing against government programs that help the poor. I’d love to hear them change their tune on the issue of poverty.
We all should be able to get along. To live and thrive regardless of our religion or who we love. Marriage Equality supporters agree with that. The actions of CFA and the faith-based companies they support do not. They do not want me in their world. That is wrong and it hurts. It hurts real people like me. I see no Christ in CFA's supposedly Christian point of view.
How exactly will Christians be oppressed when gays gain the right to marry? Seriously. That’s the point. Everybody's family should be as sacred as the Christian family.
And this is why Jamie should be president some day.
I might be out of the closet, but I'm afraid that my skeletons have their own skeletons in their respective closets. Like some of my Republican voting record. Eeek!
For anyone who still believes that Chick-Fil-A supports free speech, I give you this non-gay-rights related article. I'm an artist, so this is incredibly important to me.
I've lived in the bible belt all my life. No, this reaction was not shocking in the least.
Depressing, not shocking (though some are supportive of the free speech thing rather than the actual speech part).
I'd agree if it were biblical.
I saw one of those funny Willy Wonka pic/memes on FB, where he asks if all the supporters buying chicken gave the food to the poor....
Totally agree. If we are saved we should act like it.
My brother and I laughed so hard we cried.
And some of those very same people they support, or rather support them are so close to biblical villains that it's almost a riot. Especially greedy man child Grover Norquest. He's the kind of rich guy that can't get a Camel through the head of a needle or whatever that said. Where's the help the poor from those who claim religion? Instead, we give money to those who have it and can create jobs on their own, and who won't even do that with the endless government cheese the right wants to give them. How come THAT'S the part where Conservatism drops Christianity? Oh, footnote that's being argued by religious scholars, THAT'S important.
Better question. How come Britney Spears and Liza Minelli's minute long marriages didn't? How come Las Vegas drive through weddings didn't? That's the great thing about Gay marriage. If the mumbo jumbo about being sacred had any actual meaning, straight couples already took all the sacred meaning out of it.
I found this beautifully written article both interesting and touching. It really hits the nail on the head of what I've been trying to say too and draws some of the same analogies. Transcribed here:
CFA: Stuck in the Craw
This post is all I have to say about the Chick-Fil-A controversy. It sums up various posts on the issue and various points made by my friends and I. From now own, rather than spend time debating this issue person by person, I’m going to point people here.
My hope here is to find common ground with those who have disagreed with me on the issue, and maybe to persuade. It’s not to ridicule or to best.
So, in the interest of common ground, let’s start here: I acknowledge the absurdity of all this debate.
It’s definitely strange to have days-long Facebook debates flare up everywhere over a chicken sandwich. The anger, sarcasm, and hurt feelings on display seem strange or even laughable because most people have seen Chick-Fil-A as just a restaurant with a funny ad campaign. I’ll get into some of the whys and wherefores of that later. But, for now, let’s just say that, yes. It can seem ridiculous to get all worked up over fast-food chicken.
Let’s also agree that this isn’t about curtailing anyone’s rights under First Amendment. The Constitution is a legal document. This is not a legal argument. No one is arguing that Chik-fil-A CEO Dan Cathy should be put in prison, or silenced, or censored by the government. This has nothing to do with government censorship or government abridgment of Freedom of Speech. So don’t worry: the ability of this millionaire to legally spend his millions as he sees fit is not in jeopardy. You need not defend it.
Now, let’s get to the nitty-gritty of things. Please read carefully. These things have been said before, but not by me, and not all in one place. Please read with an open mind. If you can’t read with an open mind, please leave, take a minute, come back, and try again. If you can’t do that, then please don’t bother. Please read all of the words here, rather than just reading half of the argument and assuming you know what I’m saying. Read these words as they are written. Again, if you don’t want to read my words, then don’t continue.
So here goes:
1. This isn’t simply about marriage. Shocker, right? It’s extremely frustrating that same-sex marriage is the great continental divide. People are judged according to how they stand on this issue, as if no other issue matters. Did you know that a person can be for same-sex marriage and still be homophobic? Did you know that a person can be against same-sex marriage and be gay? We all get categorized very quickly based on the marriage issue and maybe that’s not fair. But here’s what you should know:
In 29 states in America today, my partner of 18 years, Cody, or I could be fired for being gay. Period. No questions asked. One of those states is Louisiana, our home state. We live in self-imposed exile from beloved homeland, family, and friends, in part, because of this legal restriction on our ability to live our lives together.
In 75 countries in the world, being gay is illegal. In many, the penalty is life in prison. These are countries we can’t openly visit. In 9 countries, being gay is punishable by death. In many others, violence against gays is tacitly accepted by the authorities. These are countries where we would be killed. Killed.
Two organizations that work very hard to maintain this status quo and roll back any protections that we may have are the Family Research Council and the Marriage & Family Foundation. For example, the Family Research council leadership has officially stated that same-gender-loving behavior should be criminalized in this country. They draw their pay, in part, from the donations of companies like Chick-Fil-A. Both groups have also done “missionary” work abroad that served to strengthen and promote criminalization of same-sex relations.
Chick-Fil-A has given roughly $5M to these organizations to support their work.
Chick-Fil-A’s money comes from the profits they make when you purchase their products.
2. This isn’t about mutual tolerance because there’s nothing mutual about it. If we agree to disagree on this issue, you walk away a full member of this society and I don’t. There is no “live and let live” on this issue because Dan Cathy is spending millions to very specifically NOT let me live. I’m not trying to do that to him.
Asking for “mutual tolerance” on this like running up to a bully beating a kid to death on the playground and scolding them both for not getting along. I’m not trying to dissolve Mr. Cathy’s marriage or make his sex illegal. I’m not trying to make him a second-class citizen, or get him killed. He’s doing that to me, folks; I’m just fighting back.
All your life, you’re told to stand up to bullies, but when WE do it, we’re told WE are the ones being intolerant? Well, okay. Yes. I refuse to tolerate getting my *** kicked. “Guilty as charged.”
But what are you guilty of? When you see a bully beating up a smaller kid and you don’t take a side, then you ARE taking a side. You’re siding with the bully. And when you cheer him on, you’re revealing something about your own character that really is a shame.
3. This isn’t about Jesus. I have a lot of Christian friends. Most of them are of the liberal variety, it’s true, but even this concept seems lost on some of you. Most of them are pro-LGBT rights. Pro-gay and Pro-Christ are NOT mutually exclusive. They never have been, in the history of Christianity, though it’s been difficult at times. It’s not impossible to be both.
If someone is telling you it is, then maybe you should wonder why they’d do that. I see divorced Christians, remarried Christians, drug addict Christians. I see people with WWJD bracelets bumping and grinding on TV and raking in millions to do it. I see greedy, rapacious, vengeful people who are Christians. And these people are accepted in the Church, and the Church does very little to combat them. Sometimes it seems like being gay is the ONLY thing certain modern Christian movements won’t allow. Why’s that, I wonder?
Jesus had almost nothing to say about sexual behavior of any kind. He was too busy teaching more important things. Empathy is at the heart of his teachings. “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” Remember that? It’s in red. So let’s examine that:
4. If things were reversed, I’d stand up for you.
Please think about this: How would you feel if KFC came out tomorrow and said they were spending money against equality for Asian Americans, or African Americans, or religious people? Really. Think about it. What would you do? How would you feel? How would you feel if, after their announcement, there was a big increase in KFC sales and I was all over Facebook supporting KFC. Please stop reading right now and imagine this. I’m serious.
You can stop now because it’s ludicrous. It would never happen.Oh, I don’t mean the part about KFC being against some group. That COULD happen. I mean the part about me supporting them. Let me tell you something, and you can **** well believe it: I’d sign on for the boycott IMMEDIATELY.Why? Well, because I believe in equality for all people, that’s why. But also, personally, from the bottom of my heart: because you are my friend, and I don’t willingly support people who harm you for just being you. How could I? How could I, really? But, more importantly for our purposes, how could you?Seriously, how could you? What has Chick-Fil-A ever done for you? Sold you some fatty chicken at a ridiculous mark-up? Made you chuckle at semi-literate cartoon cows? You mean more to me than KFC possibly could. If I, in turn, don’t mean more to you than a chicken sandwich from Chik-Fil-A–if my life, my quality of life, and my dignity are such afterthoughts to you that you’d not only refuse the boycott, but go out of your way to support someone who was hurting me? if I let this stand, if I don’t stand up to the bullies and if I let my friends egg the bullies on, what does that make me?Well, it makes me a Chikin.Yeah, so suddenly it is cause for anger, ridiculous or not.But I’m not going to stop being Facebook friends with anyone over this issue.Instead, I will remain. And, when you see my face with my partner’s in my profile, maybe you will examine not simply what your opinions are about gay people, or gay marriage, or the first amendment, even; maybe you’ll examine not merely your opinions but your values. What is friendship to you? What is loyalty? How important are human life and dignity to you? Are they more important than fitting in with your social group? Are they more important than loyalty to a corporate brand, or a political party, or some misguided church teaching?That’s why we’re so angry. This is personal for us. There are times in your life when you have the opportunity to stand up for your friends. When you let that opportunity pass, your friends notice. It doesn’t mean we can’t be friends, but it diminishes you, and it diminishes the friendship. That’s how it is, no matter what the issue or what the venue.So stand up. Stand up for us. Do the right thing. You don’t have to agree with us on everything, but repudiate Chick-Fil-A. Unlike them on Facebook. Withdraw your support for them. Join us in the boycott. If you can’t do that, then please ask yourself whether I’m your friend. In fact, ask yourself whether anyone is.This is all I have to say. If you’d like to debate the issue further, I’ll do it, but I’m not going to go around and around on the same points. If you’re just going to repeat yourself, save us both some time. If you haven’t taken the time to actually read this carefully and actually consider carefully what I’ve said, then I see no reason to waste further words.The ball is in your court. Again, I urge you to do the right thing.- Wayne Self, Playwright
Separate names with a comma.