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Is there a pattern for a Kermit puppet?

Discussion in 'Puppet News' started by Muppet Loverr, Apr 15, 2009.

  1. Muppet Loverr

    Muppet Loverr Member

    Well I am 15, and I am in a Fashion Creation class, and since i am getting really well reading and making things from patterns (that are exact,with measurements) I would like to ask you guys to share your expertise on how to make a passible looking Kermit puppet. I can follow direction quite easily. Soo If anyone has certain Step-by-Step guide, or system they use to make this wonderful frog, it would be GREATLY APPRECIATED~!:):):)
  2. Nicky

    Nicky New Member

    If you mean full pattern as in to make a pro replica muppet worthy Kermit. There are none available.

    Those who have made their own replcas that look authentic have most likely made their own patterns through trial and error and most wont let others use their plans/patterns.

    Your best bet is (what you will hear a lot on these forums) is to buy a Kermit puppet (toy), and take it apart and look at the different segments.

    Or you could get the Glorified Sock Puppet pattern from www.projectpuppet.com and use that to start you off.

    Other than that you could just try yourself through a trial and error basis.

    Hope this is in some way helpfull? :)
  3. mrhogg

    mrhogg New Member

    Strictly speaking that's true, but someone took a Master Replica Kermit apart, and photographed the pieces, then sent them to the folks over at Swazzle. It's on Flickr.

    Finding the pattern is different from using the pattern, though; I think going with Project Puppet or something similar is a good idea, because in that case you're still making your own puppet, not a Kermit puppet (respecting intellectual property, and all that).
  4. Muppet Loverr

    Muppet Loverr Member

    Thank You Guys~! I will Look now!
  5. luther962

    luther962 New Member

    I have the MR Kermit replica, which in my book is as good as it gets. For our puppet ministry, I just buy cheap dolls (got Kermit for $9.00) on E-bay, do a little dissection and pull out the stuffing, new mouth boards and some foam to fill out the body and you have a decent puppet. I have done the same thing with a Zoe plush, and if I dare admit it on this forum, even to my Gonzo MR Photo Replica. I got him for under $90.00, and it costs almost $145.00 for a What Not from FAO. (it is actually very easy to modify Gonzo, it took me only about 4 hours from start to finish.) These are all officially licensed products, I just happen to modify them for my needs.
  6. HauntedPuppet

    HauntedPuppet New Member

    For whatever unknown reason, people whom build puppets are very secretive about every aspect of it unfortunately.

    You would think on a forum about puppet making people would be willing to help in this aspect because that is usually what forums are about (sharing experiences and information). But rather than that, most of what I have seen has been . . .

    "design your own"
    or
    . . . . no response at all

    There is stuff out there for free on the old Inter-webz but can be hard to find sometimes.

    I can understand some of the people whom do this for money keeping their stuff a secret or selling their patterns because that is either a whole or part of their income.

    So with all of that in mind it is almost going to be impossible to ask for help especially with a replica.

    One would not bother buying a replica just to make a replica . . . . it kinda defeats the purpose.

    Well you all know where Im going with this . . . . in puppet building secrecy prevails. Acclaim is given to those whom build good puppets and unfortunately some level of arrogance is shown to those whom "have to ask".

    Fortunately I am not one of those as anyone can see by my previous posts and I will try to help if I can. That said, if I find a kermie pattern that is descent I will be forwarding it onto you.

    Peace :)
  7. luther962

    luther962 New Member

    The best way I found to get a pattern for a Muppet, is to buy a plush and use it as is or using a photocopier, blow it up to the size I need and use that as a pattern. I make them for my own needs and don't sell them like Oliver's, but that is one way of doing it. I have made my own from Project Puppet and it turned out good, they have good patterns, also there is a wonderful series on puppet making on Youtube with Paul? His videos really helped me get started making puppets--I just wish I could remember his full name?
  8. Super Scooter

    Super Scooter New Member

    People who build puppets aren't all that secretive. And, honestly, sometimes you have to do it yourself. There's a million ways to make a puppet, and it really boils down to trial and error. But, again, the puppet builders on here have been very helpful. I've learned A LOT about building puppets from this site. How to make removable arm rods, eyelid mechanisms, a good mouthplate... a whole bunch of other stuff, too!

    I think the reason people could be "secretive" about a Kermit pattern is that... well, they could get into a heck of a lot of trouble providing one.
  9. HauntedPuppet

    HauntedPuppet New Member

    Lol

    Dont bother correcting someone in a condescending manner. Its not good cricket. Be constructive.

    The proof is in the threads themselves. Secrecy prevails and always has in puppet making. If one were to read the threads as I mentioned they are full of "design one yourself" or "trial and error is the way" etc etc.

    It does not have to be like that. If one were to make a good mouthplate and share that design then the people who modify that design may end up helping you back. The last mouthplate design thread I read consisted of an answer saying "design one yourself" . . . . The threads are full of this kind of thing and this is one thing that no one can refute because it is right there in plain text.

    How can one get into trouble making Kermit?
    Seriously . . .
    thousands of people are downloading movies and music every day . . . it is unlikely that one would get into "a lot of trouble" for providing a way of making a great replica.

    I think that the copyright people have much more to do than being concerned with someone making something from fabric unless they are mass producing it on a global scale.

    One wonders if anyone has even heard of anyone else ever being charged with a copyright infringement over a puppet . . . You hear about it with the other media I mentioned constantly.

    Oh BTW, quite relevant to our discussion is the smurf that is on projectpuppet.com . . . One may wonder why that has not gotten people into trouble, especially a commercial website.

    blah.
  10. Aw what the heck, I too wanna derail the thread for a bit.

    The secrecy is something I also find annoying, at times. I try to help anyone that asks me for my meagre skills and advice, I'm always open and happy to share how I make mine. There does seem to be this "you haven't earned the right to know my methods" from some. Like some rookie can't know all the ins and out, they have to put in the hours, succeed and fail before they can then step up. Like they think those not willing to put in the frustration and thinking first, aren't allowed to peek behind the wizard's curtain, I dunno. There just seems to be this "boys club" mentality you're not supposed to show in detail how you make them. Might only a problem with the more old fashioed types and it's changing with the new generatiion of puppet makers. I agree with HauntedPuppet about sharing ideas so these things can be built on and perpetually build on knowledge.
    Having said that though, of course there is a wealth of knowledge, tips and tricks on the boards already and for the most part people seem open about the basics. However there are some things you just couldn't possibly explain, and really do have to be learnt through trial and error. Making things from scratch will inevitably run into problem solving here or there.

    Sometimes when a newbie asks the questions that have been posted here before, the regulars just send them to the search function, which annoys me a little. Not so much lately but used to happen so often that the amount of times I've gone looking for a particular thread about something and see that said in all of them, frustrates me.
    There's also the problem of inexperienced people maybe not being sure themselves what they're asking or how to explain the problem. Something like a mouthplate is subjective and depends wholely on the design of the puppet.

    Without getting bogged down in yet another muppet replica "debate", I want to reiterate, there is nothing illegal with making one for yourself, just as there is nothing illegal with making a replica copy of anything in the world, for yourself.
    /end rant
  11. HauntedPuppet

    HauntedPuppet New Member

    Much better said than I could have, here here

    People make prints or paint paintings the same as the artists.
    People take designs from Victorias secret and similar copies end up in Kmart
    People make their own miniatures of stuff
    Pub Bands cover other famous bands songs
    Tattoo artists replicate famous art on skin AND make money from it.
    etc etc etc . . . . .

    Why not have a pattern to make a muppet? For anyone bothered to actually look at the copyright laws it actually breaks no laws just as none of the other examples do either.

    In fact is this not another form of "puppet secrecy" ?

    "oh no, we couldnt show you that, that would be breaking the law"
    Seems more like an excuse rather than a fact.

    Otherwise Ikea could not rip of famous furniture
    etc etc etc etc
  12. Super Scooter

    Super Scooter New Member

    Hey, no condensation (condestination?) meant. Just seemed you used da "whoms" alot, good suh. And, I don't mean to be rude, but it seems you may have mis-quoted me, Haunted Puppets. I didn't write the word "who" in bold. Now, that would have been compensating. :p

    My point was that some of the people on here who might have access to a Kermit pattern have also worked with the Muppets, and so they would get in trouble for sharing those designs.

    Correcting condescension completely coagulates competent companions.
  13. na3

    na3 New Member

    Absolute ********. (Forgive the bluntness) The only reason that I can see that people on Muppet Central are reluctant to give out info would because it can easily be misconstrued to be related to making copyrighted puppets that are heavily guarded by Disney. Invariably this site attracts more of that than on other non-specific puppetry sites.

    Compare to places like Puptcrit, Puppets and Stuff, and Puppet Hub, there are HEAPS of people sharing their info: P&S members are now doing live video tutorials weekly on a variety of building topics. Puptcrit is full of huge and long discussions that share tips and ideas.

    In fact 99% of puppeteers I've met or talked to are happy to share their knowledge, usually with no price tag attached. (To the general public maybe less willing to share without a fee) Compared to areas like magic, puppetry would have to be one of the most open industries about.

    (Now, if you're talking about ONLY doing research on the net, the reason there is a lack of info is because it takes a while to get the puppeteers used to the new technology)

    I have not once, ever, been affronted by an air of arrogance from a single puppeteer when I asked for assistance. (Maybe you're talking to the wrong people, maybe I'm talking to the right ones... who knows!)

    ... I also agree with Super Scooter. There's just too much about puppetry to define it to one single thing. There are myriads of ways to build things, and quite often experimentation is the best way to do things and to learn. (Speaking from a mostly self-taught background when it comes to puppets)

    It's not. It's just that you haven't seen some of the other discussions going on - leave this site for a while and visit another one. You might discover a different kind of conversational style.

    Hey ma, my friend's jumping off a cliff tomorrow - can I go do it too?

    Yes, because the law works on the basis of 'everyone else was doing it'.

    You're evidently not aware of the very prominent ebay seller who is unnamed in many threads on these forums. And why they go unnamed, and how they flaunt being sued by a certain company - successfully - for copyright infringement on puppets.

    Just because you don't hear about it doesn't make it MORE legal.

    ... Sorry to derail the thread, it's just I've spent years trying to crack into the Aussie theatre world on a professional level, and I can tell you the puppeteers are the most open bunch I've ever met - techies, actors, snobs the lot of them. Puppeteers are quite the opposite. (Er, generalisations aside. Most pros I've met who are actors and techies can be quite snobbish; likewise, most puppeteers are open and friendly)

    Not to mention the HUGE online presence predominantly from the US puppeteers.

    And I promise not to start anything else in replies regarding copyright. I know how you Muppet Centralers feel about it... ;)
  14. HauntedPuppet

    HauntedPuppet New Member

    On the whole I was not talking about any "copyrighted" puppets so this is irrelevant.

    I am not talking about other places, I am talking about here.

    That is quite often the case in other locations.

    LOL they can figure out blinking eyes and other forms of simple animatronics but cnnot work a computer . . . .

    Again I am not talking about me, I figure things out for myself. I am talking about the threads that anyone can read right here.

    THE THREADS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.

    OK there is a lot to puppetry in general but what about when a n00b asks a specific question about 1 thing which is the majority of the time. LOL.

    So you admit that one would see a different style of conversation if one were to go elsewhere?

    Again I am not talking about other places (many of which I am a member under various names) I was talking about here specifically. Why even have a section on puppetry and puppet making if no one is willing to come to the party?



    If you want.

    LoL . . . is this even relevant?

    I doubt it, at the most they may have received a letter.

    That is rather silly, I never made that statement. The example I made was how prevalent other things were and how flimsy the penalties for it are in most cases. The paragraph speaks for itself.

    Nice to know us Aussies are a good bunch.

    And now we come to the crux of it . . . . .
    Speaks for itself really.
  15. na3

    na3 New Member

    bah-leted!
  16. TheCreatureWork

    TheCreatureWork Active Member

    Why don't you guys/gals take this fight outside?...I have a headache. :)

    Some people are secretive and some aren't
    Some build replicas, some don't
    Some get sued, some don't
    I think this whole issue of a Kermit pattern vs. puppet building advice is totally unrelated.
  17. Buck-Beaver

    Buck-Beaver Well-Known Member

    Bickering on the boards is never fun, but in defense of Na3 I thought she made a good and fair rebuttal of HauntedPuppet's post.

    On the issue of builders not sharing information, I'm sorry but that is nonsense and a disrespectful accusation to make when many people have spent hundreds, if not thousands of hours helping people here for free over the years.

    I'm one of the more senior members who has often encouraged people to use the search function, because honestly virtually everything you could need to know about foam puppet construction has been discussed over the years and is posted (including how to make a Kermit, which comes up again, and again and again). There's not even a need to wait for responses...you can go find the information in a few minutes.

    For example, on the issue of making a Kermit, a quick search for "Kermit Puppet" turns up 44 old threads going back to 2003. You can drill that down further by searching for "Kermit Body Pattern" which turns up 10 threads.

    The real problem that I see is that a lot of the useful discussions and information here is very poorly organized. But there is a lot of great info here...including how to make a Kermit. You just have to be willing to do a little work to find it!
  18. Krazedmuppet

    Krazedmuppet Active Member

    Honestly I don't think its that they are being snobs here at MC (most MCrs are the nicest people Ive ever met), I think its just that most people who are on here who know the answer are not on here regular and check ALL threads (like at least 1-2 times a week) or the same question gets asked and if you would just search it, you might find it.The rest don't know the answer (or are not puppeteers themselves) I don't think anyone on here has a pattern for such things, and even if they did, they don't have it anymore. What happens to patterns? you cut them up and destroy them. When you use them to make something you throw them away (or keep them, but only you know how the mess goes together)
    And even if they are JUST being "snobs" about THEIR hard work and don't want any joe shmo to take it and get all the credit (you have to understand, that is NOT easy work, Pattern drafting is an art that takes LOTS of time) I really cant blame them. If you want it so bad, then learn how to do it. That simple. You think other people who have done it have pro training? no they used the same resources you have. If you don't want to put in all that hard work, then I guess you really didn't want it. Its not like the information is not out there, go to the library, use the internet, there are people who will HELP you, but don't expect them to do the work for you.
  19. Krazedmuppet

    Krazedmuppet Active Member

    He wasn't and you should take the same advice

    And I totally agree


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