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Is there a reason why Disney dislikes releasing Muppet DVD's?

Discussion in 'Muppet Merchandise' started by beaker, Dec 27, 2014.

  1. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Even if it wasn't a sequel, direct or otherwise, they'd still call it one. I'm pretty sure that Disney coerced them into making the film an actual sequel when the writers have been on record saying they wanted something more disjointed. The happy medium was lampshading the fact it was a sequel with barely any of it actually connecting to the first one.

    As for the DVD's, if that's truly what the public wants, the nostalgic T-shirt wearing, Robot Chicken and Family Guy cutscene, Sesame Street/Muppet Show confusing casuals want, I don't think the movie was in anyway an indication of the popularity of the franchise. If it's still a music rights thing, I don't see why Disney can't announce a list of the songs stopping them. At least then we can growl at the Monty Burns types that own them. Wouldn't be surprised if some likeness/celebrity rights issues are in the way as well. All I know is, nothing was stopping them with Star Wars characters before, and darn straight nothing's stopping them now.

    EDIT: I forgot to mention that Disney did indeed have plans to release Goof Troop, the rest of Talespin, and Ducktales the Movie to general retail after having these available for Movie club. They're clearly vanilla releases (I'd rather the term be sweet cream releases as vanilla is indeed a flavor), and well along the lines of the rest of the TDA "Oh Well it's something" DVD's. I'd love to hope this means that the rest of Darkwing Duck and Ducktales are in the pipeline.
    Duke Remington likes this.
  2. minor muppetz

    minor muppetz Well-Known Member

    Just a few days ago I saw the DuckTales movie and the rest of TailSpin at Target. So they are now retail releases (well, not sure about Goof Troop). I wonder if they're Target-retail exclusives or if they can be found at other stores.
    Duke Remington likes this.
  3. Duke Remington

    Duke Remington Well-Known Member

    They're general retail releases.
  4. Muppet Master

    Muppet Master Well-Known Member

    At least TMS got season set releases, even if they were not all the seasons. There was a time when three episodes on a VHS tape cost more than twenty bucks, but we get seasons on DVD with special features with the same amount. In my opinion, season two and three are much better than season four and five, so at least we have those available, better than nothing whatsoever.
    Drtooth likes this.
  5. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Nothing has spoiled us quite like season sets did for the horrible days of 19.99 for 2 episodes on a VHS. Ditto when DVD's first came out, and we only got the same thing only without the hassle of rewinding.

    Now, whenever some company releases a single disk with like 4 episodes on it, it's like really!?!
  6. Muppet Master

    Muppet Master Well-Known Member

    Those VHS tapes help us now since they have a lot of season 4 and season 5 episodes, and they are much cheaper online, so it helps us legally watch those ones, so it works in our favor. You can easily find those on ebay or amazon for less than ten dollars which is a good buy, or at least better than what they used to cost.
  7. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    The point of having DVD box sets is so you don't have to track down old VHS copies. Why spend well over 50 bucks to get a dead format to complete the episode collection when we were supposed to get them on DVD? I mean, none of that money goes to The Muppets or Disney or Henson. Might as well just watch the fuzzy youtube videos.
  8. Muppet Master

    Muppet Master Well-Known Member

    Someone bought them in the first place, and watching TMS on television is much better than watching it on a computer, I would buy one of them if I found one at a thrift store which always have those types of VHS tapes available all days.
  9. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    I just remembered another one.

    Back in the mid-2000s, a few of Sid & Marty Kroffts' shows saw DVD releases: H.R. PUFNSTUF, THE BUGALOOS, LIDSVILLE, the first season of SIGMUND AND THE SEA MONSTERS, and all three seasons of LAND OF THE LOST saw DVD releases. Then they just stopped. Years later, LAND OF THE LOST was re-released to coincide with the release of that terrible movie remake, then H.R. PUFNSTUF later saw a re-release too, as did Season One of SIGMUND AND THE SEA MONSTERS (though I never saw it in stores). Other than a compilation release within the last few years, we still have yet to see Season Two of SGMUND on DVD, along with THE LOST SAUCER, FAR OUT SPACE NUTS, D.C. FOLLIES, or any of those variety shows they did (save for PINK LADY & JEFF, for some reason).
  10. minor muppetz

    minor muppetz Well-Known Member

    It's a wonder (and perhaps a good thing) that it's not illegal to buy used merchandise, considering that the companies making them don't make money when people buy things that were already purchased.

    And Disney never made any money off those Best of the Muppet Show DVDs, as they were released before Disney got the Muppets and went out-of-print around that time (though Columbia's license to release Henson content expired at that time as well). Though I wonder if Disney got money from sales of any pre-2004 Muppet videos that were purchased after the sale/license expired. I'm pretty sure that retailers continued selling remaining stock, as opposed to selling unsold copies back to Columbia Home Video.
  11. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    If companies lobbied for that to happen, they'd be laughed out of the courtroom. Not to mention how up in arms consumers would be. If companies stop publishing something and don't sell them anymore, they've lost all the rights to make a profit. They feel they're beyond that, and trying to get back all the money they refused is petty.

    On the other hand, scalpers. From my experience there's a period from between the DVD's getting discontinued and getting in the hands of greedy scalpers when DVD's hit remarkably low prices online. But that's a very thin time line, otherwise said scalpers buy them all up then charge a fortune. That's why I hate when things go out of print. I fail to see why Sony doesn't rerelease the good Transformers movie again, since even used copies go for a fortune. Companies don't get this money, but it isn't exactly stealing. It's not wrong or illegal, just sucky. But the companies have nothing to gain by illegalizing these transactions. They've already made their money, the rights expired... what are they going to do? Unless of course there's an international thing going, but they only really try and stop that in Japan because American releases are far cheaper, even with shipping than their wacky expensive disks. A box set can set you back like a thousand American dollars. Eh, but they come with toys sometimes.

    As for Snowth's comment... I agree. Stop blaming Disney for doing stuff other companies have been doing for years. Rights are insane, crappy TV shows no one likes literally clog up store shelves, and most of everything can be seen legally or otherwise online. If you're lucky, a license can change hands and go somewhere more independent. Even that's not a guarantee. it was almost a decade between when Shout release only one set of Inspector Gadget and some weird indie company got the rights and released all of it, including the rare second season. Ditto Heathcliff and Mill Creek... and even then, they barely finished the first season. No season two announcement at all.
  12. jvcarroll

    jvcarroll Well-Known Member

    From my understanding in store management, when a product like a DVD is produced, the company sells the units to distributors. Individual stores order from these distributors - not the parent company. That means the parent company's deal is already inked and they've already been compensated. So if a video was produced and distributed in 2003 and the company was purchased in 2004, the new parent company would not share in the profits no matter how many copies the distributors, stores and other vendors continued to sell. It's basically back stock. It would be very rare if this worked any differently. At least, that's my experience. However, if they reissued this release, the new company would hold the rights to the product. Although, this is a little trickier with the Muppets because Sony, not Disney, owns the rights to MTM, MFS and I think KSY too. The packaging copyrights likely change to reflect Disney's ownership of the Muppet brand, but Sony owns the movie and the distribution rights. Hope this helped.
    Duke Remington likes this.
  13. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Just what I was thinking. So basically if a DVD sells really well, and they need to reorder another shipment, does it mean the companies make a profit from that reorder? Only thing I'd like to know. But I wouldn't be surprised if both crappy obscure shows or one season of 5 episodes before it was cancelled crapfest no one liked are the reason stores are stocking less TV show based DVD's, causing the entertainment companies to produce less.

    But yeah. If an entertainment company tried to stop the sale of used or hoarded videos that they can no longer profit from, that would be petty. Very very petty. Remember the stink that was raised when the new X-Box was reported to not play used or borrowed games?
    jvcarroll likes this.
  14. minor muppetz

    minor muppetz Well-Known Member

    Wait, so in regards to residuals/royalties, do those entitled get paid based on what units are sold to stores or from the copies actually sold in stores?
  15. jvcarroll

    jvcarroll Well-Known Member

    It is my understanding that royalties are usually granted by number of units that are sold to the distributors who have calculated public interest from store orders.

    Basically, stores are notified of upcoming stock. They order it through a distributor and the units are manufactured based on that. That's how it works with most products. Reorders are handled differently with different companies. However, that seems to be changing now that streaming is the new distribution plan.
  16. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    Pretty sure most people got sick of waiting for Season 4 and 5 and downloaded the torrents. Disney shot themselves in the foot.

    Unless it's been proven, as I've surmised that true Muppet collectors are very small and niche, no reason why Disney would have no reason to release more than they have done on the home market. I mean why not let a third party company release?

    Yeah it's cool Disney put all their energy into two films; that's pretty insane. But that seems to be about it. It's as if, when MMW came back with B.O. they weren't satisfied with they seemed to wash their hands.
  17. jvcarroll

    jvcarroll Well-Known Member

    Are we making this argument again? I thought most of us had already assumed that there must be some sort of hold up pertaining to the rights. I mean, if Disney would release the entirety of the Muppet movies on Blu-ray and the fact that they were the first company to ever push season sets of TMS, it's a safe assumption that they'd like to get it all out there.
    Duke Remington likes this.
  18. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    It's funny that their purposed botching of the foreign release stunted the movie's box office pull, and by all means Planes 2 made just around the same lousy box office here, but because it opened in more countries it made slightly more and it's considered a success that they're still ramming down throats. NO ONE likes Planes. Seriously. No one. Frozen made money and spoke to an audience. Planes didn't. I never see Planes merchandise move, even at deep discount clearance.

    But I doubt the lack of Seasons 4 and 5 have anything to do with MMW, because we would have had them by now before the movie premiered. The plan seems to have been to release it in 2009, then withhold it because it was the "Year of the Muppets" with nothing actually Muppety there, and they can't release it when the first movie came out because that would be "confusing" for some reason. If it was general ennui of the not Frozen numbers movie they picked a horrible time to release it (though movie goers went to see that awful Wizard of Oz film the year before no problem), I'd tend to agree, but they Wembled on these sets before the films were going to be a thing.
  19. Stulz

    Stulz Well-Known Member

    Or at least stuck with it through out the film. It's mentioned in the opening, and sorta brought up again with "Together again, agian." But it would have been better if they actually followed through and made fun of squeal tropes along the way. The closing number could have been a reprise of "Squeal" but joking about it becoming a trilogy. Inside movie jokes would have added a lot. It also would probably have helped word of mouth ticket sales as well.

    Did you hear the made fun of "___"?? I can't belaive they gor away with acamo from "___". You need to this because of "__". I need to see that again just for the "__". That's what drive ticket sales and repeat viewings.
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2015
    muppetlover123 likes this.
  20. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    I apologize, the question shouldn't be "Does Disney hate releasing Muppet dvds", but...going by this year's Toy Fair coverage and previous years retail seasons the question should be "Does Disney just hate Muppet merchandise in general?"

    Oof. Oh to take a time machine back to 1979-1989 or 2002-2004.
    dwayne1115 likes this.

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