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Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by RealWonderman, Aug 4, 2015.
Yeah, they're not too keen on Peter Lorre.
Half of them would probably draw a blank at his name.
Now I wonder if there should be more big "status quo changes" happening on the series and announced on Facebook. Things like Statler and Waldorf deciding to give up on watching the Muppets (or at least give up heckling), somebody from The Electric Mayhem leaving the band, The Swedish Chef deciding to give up cooking......
The one thing that bothers me is the fact that they went through a lot to get Kermit and Piggy together in the last two movies.
One of the major plot points in the Muppets was Kermit learning that he needed Piggy. In Most Wanted the plot point was that Piggy, and the rest of the Muppets need Kermit.
So to me it seems like a waste of time to have invested all that time in doing that if they where going to break up months later.
Maybe it's just me, but I thought that after Most Wanted Kermit and Piggy's relationship was stronger then it ever was. Or am I wrong in thinking that?
You aren't alone After years of the on and off again romance, I also felt that they were moving in the right direction and that they finally had resolved the "does he" or "doesn't he" need/want her angle. He does, she does.
For them to backpedal now, seems like they are going in the wrong direction. I don't want to be 80 when this is finally settled upon once and for all. Just like Mickey and Minnie Mouse, Donald and Daisy Duck, Kermit and Piggy are "the" established couple for the Muppets.
You'll never see a Fozzie/Piggy or Kermit/Janice pairing because even little kids know who goes with who.
I don't know of any other romantic pairing in the Muppets that is that strong and ingrained. If I'm wrong, please show me. You can't break up the only couple and just expect people to not remark on it.
Kermit + Piggy = Happiness. 4-ever.
I'm betting that this could be a set up for the tv series. And I think that's brilliant. Yes, it's sad that Kermit and Miss Piggy split up. But I feel it's probably just for now. Well, who knows.
Well some folks around here would debate that Floyd and Janice are a tight couple.
While that may be true, it is not an obvious pairing. They would not be considered the signature couple of the Muppets. Neither is Gonzo/Camilla.
Ask any child 4 and up who the boy/girl couple is. It's not going to be Piggy/Rowlf or Kermit/Camilla. The only obvious couple is Kermit/Piggy. They can introduce new characters until the cows come home, but that doesn't make Walter/Piggy an item.
Kermit + Piggy. How it should be. No matter what they try to change, throw a spin on it, whatever - in the end, it will always be Kermit/Piggy.
I'm fine with it because its just for the series!
Off topic and completely honest here, I never liked the "I've seen everything...BOOM." suicide joke. I love me some vintage cartoons, I find them the highest quality in animation history. But some of the things that passed at humor were very questionable. Stuff they would do in an adult cartoon today, but without the irony and the "jeez, that's horrible" subtext. And the worst part is, the suicide joke was the favorite punchline of late 50's Paramount cartoons. There's a LOT in the Horton Hears a Who movie I feel didn't work and was obviously just padding (even Chuck Jones had trouble, and animation was even reused). But considering the source material, the suicidal Lorre Fish is a might jarring (not that Seuss wouldn't have done edgy humor in a Snafu picture, but this is a kid's book). And the useless Katherine Hepburn impersonation of the bird gets very obnoxious after a while, ruhlly it does. But danged if it isn't some great looking Bob Clampett animation.
But my main point is, we always had at the moment pop culture jokes in these things. Any HB fan will know that the character voices are mostly impersonations. The key is quality. And even in the old days it was kinda hit or miss. There's a late 50's Bugs Bunny cartoon that was essentially just rattling off every popular TV show of the day, and it was kinda dodgy. Some of it worked, some of it didn't, but for the most part it was completely dated. And it's one of the rabbits weaker cartoons as a result.
Some stuff has always been around in every legacy character and genre of entertainment. And it wasn't always done perfectly well.
Btw, just to clarify, the name of the short we're talking about is Horton Hatches an Egg (1942). Horton Hears a Who was later.
Yeah I've always been kinda fascinated with how casually suicide was treated in 30s and 40s movies. There was this one actor who took his own life in 1937, and in at least two of his films he makes some now painfully ironic comment about suicide, once in a very funny monologue! Perhaps it was a Depression era thing. People laughed to keep from crying.
That is a very modern judgment. These cartoons shorts were meant to be viewed by everyone, not just kids. Plus little boys had toy guns that looked real (no neon Nerf colors) and they watched gangster and Western pictures. Plus that was Peter Lorre's joke, he said and did creepy things with a sick grin on his face. That's why audiences liked him. And bottom line, if you're going for a morbid joke like that, you really do have to go for it and not pull punches. This is what Jerry Seinfeld has been talking about lately, how political correctness can sabotage a joke.
(There are times when I probably prefer Chuck Jones' treatment of Seuss more than Seuss' actual books. Blasphemy I know, lol.)
Well back to the topic, that's why I said Jim got it right the majority of the time. Nothing is ever perfect, but some artists do have that special intuition. That is a rare thing.
This is excellent marketing for the new TV show. This story took the internet by storm, so it's clearly doing it's job.
Sure, but at what cost? I mean there are a lot of fans who know these are fictional characters but yet they still invested a lot of time and emotion into believing in there relationship. Besides all that the last two movies really made it seem like Kermit and Piggy where finally a couple and a happy one. To me it's just a waste of my emotions to think that there relationship was going great only to have all that taken away by a break up.
By all means I like dark humor, but only if it's done right. The "Seen it all" suicide joke doesn't work for me, not out of political correctness, but for the same reason internet memes have a short shelf life. You hear it enough times, and it goes from being unfunny to "Really?!? This again? Let it die already." It's the rough equivalent of someone still telling a Chuck Norris joke. It stopped being funny very quickly after it was introduced. The Horton Hatches the Egg cartoon, I admit, I do like, but watching it seems like some if it comes from a bizarro parallel 50's version of an early 00's humor. Repeating popular gags of the time that were done everywhere else with rapid fire pop culture jokes thrown in.
Plus, I don't find it even an iota as funny as Droopy having to shoot a gun with another gun saying, "it's the laaaaaaw of the West." Then again, I like Bob Clampett and all, but I'm much more into Tex Avery's stuff.
Oooo, that's interesting. So the meme phenomenon is older than we thought!
On Twitter, someone told me that it was just for the show. I don't know anymore. If this is a stunt for the show, then they can do better. That's just my two cents.
Really? People were actually wrapped up emotionally in Kermit and Piggy's relationship? I guess there are a lot of people out there that need to spend more time in the real world then.
Yes really! Sure there is a real world out there, with death, evil, and bad things in it. Maybe some people look at a frog and a pig relationship to get away from the real world. Honestly with all the evil and shootings and mass killings and just bad things going on in this "Real World" I want to live in a world of fictional Muppets. Because in that world a frog a bear a pig a dog, and a whatever can still make millions of people happy, and they can do it together.
Even now in TN. It's going nuts here!
That's how I feel. Just because something isn't "real" doesn't mean you can't be emotionally invested in it.
How many people believe Star Trek is real? Star Wars? Are you sure there is no "force" and it can't be with us?
When you grow up with something, it becomes part of you. I grew up with Muppets from the time I was able to sit in front of the TV and watch Sesame Street.
It's also the same with fanfiction. We all know we aren't writing cannon stories but does that make it any less real? If I write a story and I get emotionally involved in it and the responses to it does that make me living not in reality?
Perception is an individual thing. I would not go around telling anyone what they can and can not believe in. If the studios didn't expect people to have a reaction they wouldn't have tried this. They knew that people would take the "split" as real. That's why they did it.
Kermit & Piggy 4-ever!
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