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Kermit at the MTV Video Music Awards

Discussion in 'Muppet Appearances' started by theprawncracker, Sep 13, 2009.

  1. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    I'm really not digging this Shmermit the Forg. This is a characature of Jim's Kermit, but without wit or fluidity. Fail. Bring Steve back. If we can't have Steve for some reason then they need to find a better fit than this. I'd say the most depressing thing about it is the way Artie's hand fills Kermit's head. It's just wrong. :sympathy:
  2. dwayne1115

    dwayne1115 Well-Known Member

    I'm going to the shack We have questions and by frog we need Answers.

    Who in there right mind are they really trying to fool? They had the chance to tell us all weekend what is going on with Steve and Kermit and yet all we get are updates about stuff we almost new where coming out. I'm getting a little annoyed with changing Kermit for whatever reason. We are grown fans what ever the news is good or bad about Steve we can take it and we will have to.
    Letters to Santa better be a good DVD cause I'm really getting mad.
  3. Daffyfan2003

    Daffyfan2003 Well-Known Member

    I checked out the clip. I don't think Artie or whoever it was did that bad a job as Kermit. It's just the fact that Steve is missing that's problematic.
  4. Frogster

    Frogster Active Member

    This is getting to be some bad news. My friends in college could do a better performance. It's like Artie's hand is too small inside Kermit, and Lady Gaga doesn't really seem like she wanted to go on about Piggy's texts. Plus it's so fake. I thought I hated when Kermit did the whole 'dodging Piggy' thing before. But you guys are right, it's Steve's character now, and he should be the only one performing him. It's embarrassing that we're at this point in the Muppets' history.
  5. Reevz1977

    Reevz1977 Well-Known Member

    Why does he sound like I do when I'm gargling water? ? ? I hope there's a genuine reason behind these attrocious appearances otherwise I'm just gonna assume somebody is trying to sabotage the Muppets from the inside! I'd rather not see Kermit at all than see this pale imitation of our beloved frog!
  6. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Ehhh... I still say the entire Muppet Oz thing was worse than this. You could hire a bum off the street to perform a hollowed out Kermit doll and call it an official performance, and it still wouldn't have been as bad as that train wreck.

    I agree right there. I'm sure Artie has a lot of talent, and I'm hoping he gets his own character that he can create the personality of when Muppet projects are on solid footing. But I don't think he's quite there with Kermit, and I don't know if he'll ever be. Unless he's better in private, and he just chokes and gets nervous during public performances like this one. I could see him getting better down the line (a lot of first time performers do)... but right now, does he really have the experience to perform him regularly, and for very official big performances? I don't think he's quite there....
  7. Daffyfan2003

    Daffyfan2003 Well-Known Member

    Well, like I said, this Kermit performance was sort of an improvement over the last one, so he can improve within time. It's just not the time yet. Like other people have said, if Steve is still around, he should be the only Kermit. But if his health is failing or something like that, I guess he wouldn't have a choice but to give the frog to someone else. I just don't know what more to say.
  8. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Again, I don't want us to get into wildly speculating why he wasn't able to perform Kermit these last 2 times. We're going to get into crazier and crazier theories, and someone's gonna say something so wildly untrue that it will cause a panic. I don't want to keep saying "Steve is having health issues" since that will soon turn into wild rumors about how sick he is, and what he has.
  9. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    Kermit Dud

    I agree we shouldn't speculate about Steve. In the end the performers are all freelancers. Scheduling isn't always an easy task. I just hope somebody gives us news soon!

    I encourage fans to go to Muppets.com and look at the job Steve does with Kermit. 19 years as the frog has resulted in this finely polished presence that the fill-in Kermit doesn't have.

    The MTV Kermit nervously clucked and clumsily set up unplanned jokes for GaGa to deliver. All the Muppets, even Kermit, is supposed to upstage anyone in the room - not fall flat like he did. This fill-in performer isn't anywhere near Kermit-ready. It's an impersonation, not a living, breathing performance like Steve's. It makes me sad because I don't think this is a case of evolution as much as it is an awkward fit. Steve took a while to adjust the voice and demeanor, but his frog always had spark. This understudy Kermit doesn't. There's no IT factor to it.
  10. SarahOnBway

    SarahOnBway Member

    You said it here exactly. I thought the voice was a significant improvement last night (though no Kermit), and the puppetry was better, but that's EXACTLY what was missing. On AGT too--there was no battle to upstage anyone. Piggy took center focus and Kermit was just... there. On the side.
  11. majortom1981

    majortom1981 New Member

    wow

    You guys are awfully harsh. How in the world can you really judge the guy doing Kermit right now from these short showings?

    Like some of you said. Steve has been doing it for 19 years. Give artie a chance.

    I cant belive some of you are saying no muppets at all if steve doesn't do it. Do you hear what you guys are saying?

    Also at d23 they said there are other things that cant be announced for all we know steve could be filming Kermit stuff and cant attend these appearances. I think we should cut artie a little slack.

    OF course somebody just starting out as kermit will not be as good as somebody who has spent 19 years doing being kermits puppeteer.
  12. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    hey... I just don't want rumors to get so far out of hand that we think that he's dying. That's a dangerous mindset. Especially when the answer could just be something simplistic.
  13. Reevz1977

    Reevz1977 Well-Known Member

    What I personally don't understand is, if Steve is busy with other projects, where is the harm in keeping Kermit from our screens? Other Muppets have appeared on shows on their own without Kermit, why sour the Muppets with lacklustre performances such as these. For Muppet fans its just plain irritating and from a brand point of view, almost devaluing the Muppets to a degree. There needs to be a contingency plan, we all know that, and without Steve, Kermit could have died with Jim but this is a completely different kettle of fish. It's almost like Disney have little regard for the Muppets and the Muppet fanbase.
  14. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    Not a good flipper forward

    I guess many of us just don't think we should be seeing a replacement Kermit at all. Steve's Kermit is Kermit.

    Everyone here is grading the performance and not the person. We all like Artie.

    For the Muppets to work the persona must be cultivated as an extension of the individual performer rather than the key characters being tossed around to different people. That's what keeps the Muppets from being the hollow icon we saw in Kermit last night on MTV and on AGT last week. Every Muppet-grade puppeteer is able to get something better than that across no matter how brief the appearance.

    I believe the Muppets should always continue no matter what the bumps along the way. This is certainly one of them. I didn't believe in this Kermit. To me it looked like a puppet and not a character. :sympathy:
  15. dwmckim

    dwmckim Well-Known Member

    I'm sorry but i though the VMA appearance was worse than AGT. People were talking about how Kermit seemed mumbley and i didn't think it was that bad - but at VMA's it totally sounded like the performer had gumballs in his mouth - it was really kind of distracting because the unintentional end result was that it came across as if Kermit had engaged in WAY too much bubbley enroute in the limo.

    When it comes right down to it, by and large fans want their performers to succeed. I want to root for Artie and i'm sure the various feedbacks on his performances must be a bit heartbreaking to read. I accept the concept of understudies more than other people here and if this is on-the-job training experience with Steve's support and guidance, i can live with that the same way i have zero issues with and am largely in favor of Matt Vogel's playing Big Bird 1/3-1/2 of the time these days (or the same way i felt about Eric and David's having been groomed to take over Frank's characters). The raw potential is there - but right now that's ALL i'm seeing...raw potential.

    The two things we saw were good Kermit performances; not bad but not nearly what they should be when you're having someone play The Lead Muppet Character at two highly watched events (even if the performances were short). Steve is top-notch. We're going to notice a difference in overall quality even if a longtime very skilled Muppeteer was subbing. I can understand not having a "first tier" Muppeteer take over because you need to have Kermit "free" to interact with the other top gun Muppeteer's characters if this change lasts for awhile. But why did they skip over the numerous amount of way more skilled and nuanced Muppeteers on the second and third tiers and pluck someone straight out of the bottom tier? It shows bigtime that it's someone who doesn't have the needed experience doing this. It makes the Muppets as a property look bad.

    The fact that none of us even knows why this is happening makes it worse - we're too preoccupied with wondering what happened to Steve and if all this is going on with his blessing or not that we can't even bring ourselves to enjoy Artie's interpretation even if it was a lot better. At least when John Tartaglia subbed for Ernie on Play With Me Sesame, that was (a) a very low visibility project - you had to have an upstart minor cable channel to see it (b) that was taped well enough in advance before airing so that by the time it did air and we saw a change, we already saw that Steve was still busy and doing lots of stuff in the meantime so there wasn't any worry or concern like this is all now basically happening in "real time".

    We really do need answers. Like i say, Artie could do another appearance as Kermit and manage to totally knock it right out of the park and be absolutely brilliant but until we know what the deal is, it's hard to be all that appreciative (but speaking of appreciation, i do feel obliged to add my disclaimer that despite the hits he's taking...from myself included...i do appreciate the fact that he is doing it - again Artie's not the "bad guy" in this and he's doing a very thankless task by filling those flippers. I just wish that his performances were just better than merely "adequate" and leave me thinking "wrong choice; wrong time". I want to see him - or whoever else may perform Kermit - really succeed. But right now all i'm seeing is "servicable" performances, nothing "great", "impressive" or anywhere near "Steve-worthy". There's a reason we fans sometimes call him "Stevie Wonder" ya know!)
  16. ohtherain

    ohtherain New Member

    Artie you did fine, considering that this is only your second appearance as the frog. I'm just asking for an explanation. Dave, Bill, Eric, and David Rudman were all at the D23 expo, presumably Steve too (but he didn't do any interviewing or meet and greet as Kermit or Rizzo or someone else) so it was possible that he was tracked. If all four guys were there, and Eric was at AGT, then the Steve issue is something above a "Save the Muppets" sort of thing. Something is happening with Steve and I hope that we know soon.
  17. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I think that's exactly, exactly nail on the head stuff right there... it's not so much just that we have an alternate Kermit that's bothersome... it's that we have an alternate Kermit with no reasons why... and again, we'll wind up speculating ourselves into Boobery Telly-esque worrywarts until we find a real answer. Even if his performance was 100% channeling Jim Henson, we'd still be wondering if something was happening. personally, I wanna say Steve's busy... but I don't know with what. Can't be Sesame Street if Eric and David are there. Heck, first time I saw a skit with Eric performing Grover, I was more worried something happened with Frank Oz than the fact he sounded off. But we all know it was because of his film career now, so... I'm guessing we'll find out the answer, and it may be something ridiculously simple.

    That said, I hope whatever the next muppet performance is they either have Steve back as Kermit, or just have non-Steve characters... besides... Much as I love the frog, if you want to go out there and sell the Muppets back to the public, you don't just give them the same Kermit and Piggy stuff.... I wanna see Fozzie, the Electric Mayhem (or any member thereof), Gonzo, Pepe, Scooter... heck, recast Luncheon Counter Monster. Even Fleet Scibbler would be a welcome change.
  18. dwmckim

    dwmckim Well-Known Member

    Now you KNOW i would be all over a Fleet comeback! (Besides of course his latest little cameo you-know-where and if you don't i'm not spoilering it for you) - i just posted a wild totally out-there so-crazy-it-just-might-work theory on what's going on with Steve in the Steve Whitmire petition thread - and if that happened, wouldn't be just be the bee's knees to have Fleet rush up onstage and cover the whole scandal when that "reveal" climaxes?
  19. rtgentry

    rtgentry Member

    I think artie sounded fine. i didnt see the video, just heard the audio. But it sounded good. he sounded and talked like kermit
  20. TML

    TML Active Member

    I have two thoughts on this, if anyone cares.

    1: It was obvious he was trying to keep Kermit moving when he wasn't being talked to to seem "alive", but he looked like a chicken pecking. These weird jerky forward head moves. Seemed awkward.

    2: Some of you have posted that he shouldn't be there or with Lady GaGa or what ever, like she's not good enough. Right now, like it or not, she is so HOT in the pop culture scene, so it was actually great exposure for Kermit. Made him seem cool to a whole other generation that thinks Muppets are stuffed animals with some dude's arm up their _ _ _. Just kids stuff. And need I remind you of the Elton John Muppet appearance. She isn't much different than he was in his younger wild costume years.

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