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Kermit in the earlier years.

Discussion in 'Classic Muppets' started by golden teeth, Aug 16, 2006.

  1. golden teeth

    golden teeth New Member

    Is it just me, or did it seem like Kermit was kind of a jerk. On Sesame Street he seemed nice, just to get frustrated from annoying situations, but on The Muppet Show, he was so rude to all of his "friends" like always threatening to fire Fozzie or a variety of things. Now it seems like hes gone through another transformation and is just nice to everybody. Did anyone else notice his character inconsistencies.
     
  2. mikebennidict

    mikebennidict New Member

    I thought he was always reasonable. but inspite the fact I wached TMS regualerly it's hard for me to member a whole lot.
     
  3. I don't think he was ever really a jerk. Kermit though was very sarcastic. I think he was very high strung all the time because he tried so hard to hold the show together and so he would flip out when things weren't exactly going according to plan. Which on the muppet show, was quite frequently. It must have been hard for him to hold the show together. It really isn't easy being green. :)
     
  4. Ruahnna

    Ruahnna Well-Known Member

    I don't think that Kermit acted like a jerk, exactly, but he is the only "sane" person in an insane environment. In other words, he's the rational man reacting to an irrational situation, which is probably why it is so funny to us to see someone's bizarre behavior yank Kermit's chain and send him into arm-waving hysteria. (Always a favorite of mine.) His humor is dry, certainly, and sometimes acerbic. Yes, there are times when he is snarky to Fozzie, and rude to Gonzo and sometimes downright unspeakable to Piggy, but in the context of the weird machinations that they typically put him through--insecurity, insanity, unwelcome frog-smooching--his outbursts make a sort of cosmic sense. We wait, knowing that sooner or later, Kermiti s going to pop his cork and pitch a fit on someone. That's why we wait, isn't it? To see what happens when he does.

    I think, also, that you will notice that Kermit is ALWAYS kinds to children. He is only abrupt or cranky with his peers--muppets or humans who are on the same general maturity level (I said GENERAL, folks!) as him. That means that while he is gentle with children, he doesn't condescend to his equals. I think, in an odd sort of way, that shows a certain type of respect for his friends, that he feels that they can handle his understandable irritation.
    Just my thoughts....
     
  5. golden teeth

    golden teeth New Member

    well, i would think they reason hes all nice now is because of Steve Whittemire's vision of him, however Steve was there for the last 2 seasons of the Muppet show with Jim playig Kermit.
     
  6. Leyla

    Leyla Member

    This is an interesting topic. I don't think I would really put this change on Steve. Nope. When I think about it, I agree with myself and don't. I agree with Ruahnna here and I'd like to suggest that perhaps the reason Kermit seems nicer, not that he was ever deliberately mean (in my opinion) without at least a little bit of cause, well, perhaps it has to do with the movies.

    Just about all of the recent, post- Jim Henson years movies have been centered around the Muppets making movies... telling other people's stories and not really their own. I think if you ask around, a lot of MC'ers are wistful for the days when they were telling their very own stories, but I digress.

    Movies are going to be different from the shows anyway, because in a movie, you aren't seeing the day to day hassles of keeping their mad little family afloat, you're seeing a specific set of events pertaining, more or less, to the plot. A movie is more focused on its central theme than a show is, and as such, we lose a lot of those lovely, meandering little character moments that a lot of us, (well, I suppose I can only really speak for myself here) really enjoy.

    To further the effect of not seeing as much of Kermit's day to day character, he hasn't been playing himself lately, he's been, well, acting. The exception to this, and here I leap over Muppets From Space because, though he was playing (or being) himself, he wasn't really central in it at all, the exception is It's a Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie (oy, what a title!). Kermit was central again, and playing (or being) himself... and what did we see? A stressed out, occasionally arm-wavingly hysterical frog who snapped at his close friends when it all got to be too much for him. He was still Kermit however, still loving, still kind, still well-meaning to the very core of his being... just worn out from the day to day burden of being everyone's fearless leader.

    I do realise of course, that there are many deliberate parallels with IAVMMC and It's a Wonderful Life, rather than a truly original story but it was still the Muppets being themselves again, in a situation that they've surely found themselves in more than once. (Go read Lisa's Summer in the Theater!)

    Back to the point:

    Is Kermit a jerk? Well, he's certainly got his moment of crankiness, grumpiness, sarcasm and stress, but don't we all? If I snap at a family member when I'm frustrated over something, does that mean I love them less? That I'm a jerk... all the time? As part of my personality? I don't think so, and I don't think so for Kermit. Does anyone doubt that he genuinely cares about each and every one of his friends? Or that he would do anything, anything at all possible, whatever it cost him, to take care of them? Kermit has his moments... but perhaps it's better to assess his character based on all of his moments, not simply the ones where he's holding a show together with spit and wishes. Let's not forget that he's working for all their dreams... and goodness knows they don't make it easy sometimes!

    What he needs to do, I suppose, is learn to rely a bit more on that mixed-up, but lovingly devoted family he surrounded himself with, so that he doesn't feel like he has to bear that burden alone. And he should relax enough to let Piggy love him the way she wants to, and deep inside, he wants her to... but again I digress into an area I'm extremely biased in! ;)

    <slinks off back into the fanfic section, where she belongs>
     
  7. KermieBaby47

    KermieBaby47 Well-Known Member

    Very well said, everybody.

    I especially loved SteveJ's lyrics and Yoda quotes, hilarious man.

    I love Kermit, I always will, no matter what his actions and mannerisms.
     
  8. Leyla

    Leyla Member

    <grins> You mean about Kermit needing to rely more on his family? Oh, oh, I see, the Piggy thing. <shrug> I made it nearly all the way through a lengthy post without turning ushy gushy... My fanfiction friends will tell you that is nigh miraculous! ;)

    There's a reason I try to stay out of these discussions, interesting as they are. <loves waxing philosophical about the frog... and the pig>
     
  9. Ruahnna

    Ruahnna Well-Known Member

    Have to put in a vote here for ushy-gushyness also. Married men live longer than unmarried men, whether those unmarried men are in a "committed relationship" or not. In other words, having someone who has signed on to put up with you, warts and all (sorry, couldn't help myself), makes for happier, healthier living. Geez--I sound like Sam the Eagle. Anyway, if you want to know about ushy-gushyness, sneak over to the fan-fiction section (you don't even have to sign in) and read a coupla stories. You'll catch on. (And, as one of my unmarried friends says, taking notes is okay, too!)
     
  10. Ruahnna

    Ruahnna Well-Known Member

    Ah, the sweet smell of denial in the air....
     
  11. Giar Fraggle

    Giar Fraggle Member

    Hey. It's not Steve's fault. He's a great guy in his own right, so we shouldn't be blaming him for anything anyway. And I don't think he wasn't well-versed in Jim's Kermit--remember, Steve was there from The Muppet Movie on. He had plenty of time to learn Jim's Kermit. And although he probably does put his own minor spin on the character now, it's simply inevitable, but he does try to keep his Kermit as similar to Jim's as possible, and I think he does a great job at it.

    Aside from that, I think if any of us were running a weekly variety show populated by a comedic failure, an insane performance artist, a gaggle of monsters and crazy creatures, and a pig who's madly in love with you, we'd be a little high-strung too.
     


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