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Discussion in 'Feedback' started by theprawncracker, Sep 17, 2008.
Thanks Ed, that did help a bit.
EDIT: And I just got an email from Phil! Good stuff!
I'm glad this was bumped because i missed it first time around, lol. I was actually thinking lately the atmosphere here was getting better and its nice to see a lot more people visiting the forum, its really busy.
I agree on a couple of points tho -
- Something needs to be done to control the sheer amount of general threads coming up. It's overcrowding the Muppet content a bit when you view new posts. It was worse a few months back and is getting better. Yes when you have a general forum you expect general threads but maybe if it was tried to combine and group them as much as possible like the "im leaving" and "post count" threads have been.
- Articles & Reviews - what Phil was saying about streamlining and making the article submission process easier is most encouraging and welcomed. Lots of creative people here, be good to get them involved which was the whole thing which got MC started in the first place. I like Gregs newsflash posts but i'd like to see MC do more than just recycling the Muppet Newsflash, it'd be nice if there was some kind of editorial team to source reviews and articles from forum members, and spell check them for submission to Phil. I also think the main site needs to be updated a lot more - tends to be when something Muppety happens like a TV appearance people are pointed directly to the forum but there oughta be news of it or even possibly a review up or some clips (as the site has the Disney "nod" it seems) as soon as possible. I think that, and having more people submitting stuff would make the main site seem a lot more fresh and updated.
- I'd like to see the Muppetcast featured a bit more or at least promoted on the Muppet Central main site. Whether that be a banner, or possibly have Steve do a 15 or 30 minute monthly Muppetcast Mini-Episode that could be streamed off the MC home page, or rotated on MC Radio, and just rundown generally whats happenin in the world of Muppets/Henson, merchandsise releases etc. I think it would prove to be a good association like the Newsflash has been.
Some really good things have been in development for awhile. Stay tuned...
I love that idea of a stream on MC Radio! That's really awesome and would be a very awesome, quick thing to do.
I actually agree with everything there, Luke, well said!
And THAT is very, very good to hear, Phil! Thanks so much!
Yeah... Apologize for that little snafu with giving out contact info. Glad to see the place is running smoother now that something's been put in place to stop the constant spammer registrations we had since October 2008 started. Not sure what'll happen in November, but I have my hopes that people here will behave in a mostly Muppety manner.
*Fires at Prawny, Brittney at Luke and Greenwood at Snowths.
I've been back now for nearly a year, and here's my take on what the MC community has been like during this time...
It would seem to me that the community in on what some would call an emotional roller coaster, because it seems like there's periods where the entire community has its ups and high points, then there's periods where it's like the entire community is bitter and resentful.
Since my initial joining of this community in August of 2003, I didn't really start becoming an active part until about 2005 or so, but from my perspective, MC has virtually been THE place to be, not only as a Muppet fan, but for a cool little hangout from at least 2003 to about 2008... I think a lot of people would agree that 2008 is when things around here really started to go downhill, and it seems like since then, at times, the community has tried to pick itself up (this thread is a big example of that very thing), but then no sooner does that happen, and it's like the forum goes to pot again; I can't really give a solid opinion on what the community has been like from November 2008 to the summer of 2009, but since then, as I've said, there's been up and down periods. The biggest down period I can think of during this time was last September's little snafu over the sudden thread closure spree that annoyed a lot of people so much that people were PUBLICALLY pleading for a stop to the thread closures. Naturally, the holidays (October through February), things seemed a little more cheery around here, and for a while, it looked almost as if MC was getting back to normal (or as normal as normal can be around here), but it seems like since March or so, the community has really gone downhill again; the sad thing is, I've noticed a lot more people who used to be regulars and predominately active have been disappearing lately, and whenever I talk with them, they too cite the state of affairs with the community, and the "high school drama"-esque atmosphere as to what's driving them away from here. I partially agree with that, as I've said for years, cliques have always been a bit of a problem here at MC, but from my standpoint, I don't think cliques are really the main problem with the community at the moment, but rather, general hostility... almost as if the community itself has been split into two sides, like the Hatfields and the McCoys (or the Hatfulls and the Floyds if you live in Missouri).
I really don't know what ALL it's going to take to return MC back to "normal", I could see a few improvements that could be done, but I don't think any number of improvements would help restore order PERMANENTLY around here... in my opinion, I think after all is said and done, the MC community will now, and forever more be a roller coaster of ups and downs, but right now, it seems like it's 2008 all over again, and quite frankly, I think I too need a break from all the madness around here.
To be very honest, if you saw around 2000-2003 you definitely wouldn't think it started to go downhill in 2008, lol. Was like war at times, lol. I don't think it is that bad now, i do see the high school drama stuff though and i'm mixed about it. If its meant to be a non cliquey/eletist site then everybody is welcome and the problem with that is where early Muppet Central was petty much ALL a bit older, more serious Muppet "buffs", now its mainly a lot of much younger Muppet fans who come here for the games and the fan fic, kinda mixed in with a few of the original more hardcore fans. It's all cool, except each group obviously is here for different things, one who probabaly visits daily for fun stuff, and the other who stops by to find out Muppety news and knowledge, and if you come here expecting that and find tons of game threads it can get irrirating, and then you have the younger members falling out sometimes which is to be expected cos they are well ... younger. It's very hard to keep a happy balance here, lol. I think the way Muppet Central used to be, getting people involved and working on things for the site like reviews and stuff, if they are good quality (kinda like what Ryan has done with the Muppet Mindset) helps people mix together and gives them a common goal, plus we used to have a daily chat which encouraged people to interact on a more personal level than just forum posts.
You got me there Luke; and I'm sure there was probably a fair share of problems and issues that arose in the pre-vBulletin days, but again, I was just commentating on my personal experiences with the community over the years I've been here and been active.
Matter of fact, speaking of hostilities, I can see that the hostility around here as increased to some epic proportions in just these past few days.
I agree about the hostility Snowth. It saddens me.
I've always tried to be a friendly person since the day I first joined here and it was such a happy place to hang around and meet people. But I've noticed the slowly growing tensions and I've been attacked a little bit by some of it on occasion.
As much as I hate to I have to agree with Kevin's recommendation to put people you cannot harmonize with on the ignore list. Even though I hate to do it, for I really do like everybody here, I have started to follow this suggestion. It's better to not get involved than become caught up in a fight.
I tend not to keep people on ignore on a permanent basis. I really only do it temporarily because there were some major issues and I just got tired of dealing with it for awhile. I can see "cliques", though I try to interact with everyone. Sometimes, though, things just don't gel and I can't make it happen. I can count on one hand the number of people I can talk to privately. I don't even need a full hand. Others just seem to want to talk only if they want stuff. I get tired of being asked to contribute without getting much in return, particularly if it's something like story ideas or something and I'm not even credited. I want someone I can have an actual conversation with occasionally. My new work schedule means I can't hang here as often as I usually do when I'm unemployed, LOL, but when 90% of my private messages are requests, it gets depressing. I feel like Mokey in a sea of Begoonies (for those who don't get it, Begoony was a rabbit-like creature who kept demanding stuff from Mokey until she shrank to Doozer size because he wasn't giving anything back to her).
I'm totally surprised to hear that there are feelings like that...I've not noticed anything other than a member here or there who has to be right. Other than that, I'm kind of lost on what the big issue is, unless there's a board I'm not seeing...
If anybody could give me the heads-up as to what the major problem, I'd kind of like to know.
I agree with Luke. Problems here are not unlike many other forums, but Muppet fans are rather diverse.
I've personally had a lot of problems with several key religious members who can be overly forceful and condescending in voicing their opinions. For some reason their views are perceived as more “family friendly” than others when I feel that it’s far more toxic. That’s not to say religious folk in general, just a certain brand of it. There are repeat offenders here that have caused me to nearly leave, but then I think of what Kermit would do and pull back a little bit. Not every Christian is a Christian Supremacist just like not every secular person is a Toxic Atheist. This forum is always striving to find an appropriate balance and hateful behavior toward anyone will not be tolerated as long as I’m around. However, it does appear that some religious folk just stir the pot waiting for others to come around to their chosen view of the “right” way of thinking instead of a mutual agreement to disagree.
There’s also the death of the main website. Muppet Central is now Forum-Only with some archived bits on the main page and lots of links to buy things. I understand this is the way the site maintains itself, but it’s unfortunate that this once expansive place has been permanently pruned so deeply. It’s clear that through the silence and inaction that this is how MC’s leadership wants things so now it’s up to us to figure out what to do with what’s left of Muppet Central.
I really don’t think we’re cliquey at all here. Maybe I’m seen like one of those folk, but that’s not true. I’ve invested in other members and Muppet Central as a whole for a decade. I’m not cliquey, just rooted. That was one of the wonderful things about the MC of the past. All members contributed to the site and felt much more meaning and connection beyond the thread discussions. It’s more of a challenge now.
Personally, if I’m on anyone’s ignore list – so be it. I speak my mind and stick up for the little guy. That’s my nature and there’s no changing it. I’m certainly no saint and my passion can take over at times, but I also take the long term effort to bridge any gaps even if I’ve exacerbated them. I think the Muppets and Muppet Central should be accessible to everybody!
So my views - Calm down. Nobody's landed.
I think we're okay now. I go to the Holy Muppet Fan Trinity of the Muppet Mindset, Tough Pigs and the MuppetCast for content and mostly come here to post. Fansites have come and gone, but those three are going strong right now with wonderful people providing stellar content...and they all respond to the fans in a timely fashion.
Well, we have to keep in mind Phil and Cindy have lives, as well a family to take care of, but indeed, the main site hasn't seen a lot of action... I remember the frustration with some people who wanted to contribute product reviews and such, but it become so exclusive, that we ended up with the likes of the Mindset, which strives to showcase fan-driven reviews, articles, interviews, etc to make up for it. And I was always bothered by the ads on the forum... they actually don't even work (I try clicking on some, and nothing happens), and they make the forum look unprofessional, but that's just me.
Again, the way I see it, cliques aren't really a big problem presently, but there always have been random cliques here and there like for fanfiction, the dorms, even the likes of our shows like MopFam and T*K*O got a bit cliquish at times; but again it seems more like presently, it's not so much cliques as it is the community has sort of been divided into a Hatfields and McCoys-esque scenario, with both sides claiming to be the good guys and claiming the other side to be the bad guys. Anymore, it really is a matter of who do/can you trust when mingling around here - not to say that nobody here isn't trustworthy, but few have lost my trust over time.
See, that's where I get lost in all this...I've never noticed it. There was one brief moment in time where a member was banned, and only the people who knew of them were allowed to speak openly about it. I remember at that moment there were members coming out of the woodwork and posting that they felt excluded from the family, but other than that I've noticed nothing hostile.
I don't really notice that either, but I've never really done the fan fic, games or dorms. Maybe it's different over there.
I just don't see why we can't all get along equally, but I suppose that's the way of the world. Some feel more deserving of others or that giving equal footing to some translates into extra special treatment of some sort. Peoples is peoples...and frogs is peoples too!
Yeah, appreciated where you were coming from on that and its quite interesting how you view that period as a lot of it tended to pass me by during those later years as it was a pretty up and down period of my life so MC really took a backseat some of the time. As Jamie alluded to, and i kinda noticed from the mods postings ... must be a whole heap of craziness going down in those fan fics, dorms and games haha.
Actually it amazes me that the site attracts people in high school at all, usually really into hardcore Sesame fandom. Obviously Sesame Workshop are doing something right!
I think you nailed it there, i feel exactly the same. Can't believe MC is the one place or group of friends in my life, virtual or real, i've actually stayed around the longest all these years lol. I would dearly love to see the main MC site spring into life a bit when all the Disney stuff really gets going and also a bit more of a balance on the forum between actual Muppety discussion and all the games and randomness.
Nothing wrong with "cliques" or groups of fans, or old time friends being closer to each other if they share an interest in certain areas of the forum or just known each other longer as long as it isn't in a closed off way that stops others getting involved and i don't feel we do here.
I'm not in Fan Fiction as much as I used to be, but I hadn't ever noticed any cliques. I was thinking perhaps the issues pop up in Friends and Family, a place I avoid like the plague as it seems to be the most likely place for problems to arise. I actually don't see where these things happen.
Do people have an issue when certain users (including myself) try to defend performers? Perhaps my own comments haven't been as eloquently put as Jamie's in those places, but I've never meant to "attack" another user or be hateful toward them. I certainly hope this isn't an issue, as I feel it's (unfortunately) one of the main arguments a Muppet fan has to make.
Well, constructive criticism is never a bad thing, as long as it can be followed up with something positive. Criticism should NEVER be the end-all of a discussion of performance or otherwise.
We also made it a rule--written or unwritten--never to discuss a performer's personal life on these forums.
Same thing with each other: never let the negative accentuate where the positive should be used!
Separate names with a comma.