1. Welcome to the Muppet Central Forum!
    You are viewing our forum as a guest. Join our free community to post topics and start private conversations. Please contact us if you need help with registration or your account login.

  2. Save Muppet Central Radio
    Within days Muppet Central Radio could be off the air. Show your support and save the station by listening via Radionomy's website and apps. We're also on iTunes and Apple TV. Learn More

Most evil Muppet movie villain?

Discussion in 'Classic Muppets' started by BobThePizzaBoy, Jan 18, 2012.

?

Who's the most evil Muppet movie villain?

  1. Doc Hopper

    16 vote(s)
    43.2%
  2. Nicky Holiday

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Ebeneezer Scrooge

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Long John Silver

    5 vote(s)
    13.5%
  5. K. Edgar Singer

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Rachel Bitterman

    10 vote(s)
    27.0%
  7. The Wicked Witch of the West

    1 vote(s)
    2.7%
  8. Tex Richman

    5 vote(s)
    13.5%

  1. BobThePizzaBoy

    BobThePizzaBoy Well-Known Member

    This was an interesting conversation that came up over on TV Tropes recently. Someone had given Tex Richman "Complete Monster" status. We came to the consensus that Richman wasn't a complete monster and just more a cartoony villain, and neither was Rachel Bitterman, also was labeled a "Complete Monster". So it got me thinking? Who do you consider the most evil Muppet movie villain? We're not talking who necessarily was the best villain but who was the one who was so heinously evil you love to hate them.

    I don't care what the folks at TV Tropes say, I've been saying it since the movie came out that Tex Richman is the Frollo of Muppet movie villains. Why? He's the only who who really truly is out to destroy the Muppets - by any means necessary and he's nasty about it. To me, Doc Hopper was a generally good person but he was just way too big for his breeches which ended up corrupting him. Richman has that same problem, but it goes to a whole other level of evil. The fact that he even tries to destroy the theater himself struck that for me. And just watch him in that scene when it's revealed the Muppets lost the theater and it belongs to him, it shows Chris Cooper is a great actor but you just want to jump into the screen and punch him in the face. I know some may disagree, and say what you will about his redemption of sorts, but Tex Richman is one of the many movie villains that really infuriated me as the movie went on.

    Feel free to point out your own reasoning in your opinions about Muppet movie villains.
     
    Muppet fan 123 likes this.
  2. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    Interesting question! Definitely not Nicky Holiday since he does have feelings for Piggy despite his sleaziness, lol.
     
  3. DramaQueenMokey

    DramaQueenMokey Well-Known Member

    I agree that Tex Richman is pretty darn evil, but I voted Long John Silver, as much as I love Tim Curry, the fact that he tied Kermit and Miss Piggy to a cliff and left them to die with the rope being on fire and all was this whole new level of evil. Also, having his buddies torture Gonzo and Rizzo like they did (though Gonzo liked it) was pretty up on that evil level too.
     
    Beakerfan and Muppet fan 123 like this.
  4. Muppet fan 123

    Muppet fan 123 Well-Known Member

    Rachel Bitterman, I can't even watch Joan Cusack now after watching that movie!
     
    DramaQueenMokey likes this.
  5. Bannanasketch

    Bannanasketch Active Member

    Well, Hopper did hire a professional frog killer to kill Kermit so he's got my vote.
     
  6. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    You know when I first saw the thread title on the forum index I thought it said "Most evil Muppet movie?" Lol. :scary:
     
  7. BobThePizzaBoy

    BobThePizzaBoy Well-Known Member

    That's exactly what I meant by him being "way too big for his breeches which ended up corrupting him". His goals were initially pretty rational even if he was a bit stuck-up about it, but his frustration with Kermit saying no to his offers really drove him to the crazy extent he's in at the end. But that's just my way of interpreting that character.
     
  8. Muppet fan 123

    Muppet fan 123 Well-Known Member

    Do you really count Scrooge as a villian?
    He's sorta evil but he's not really a villian.
     
    Vincent L likes this.
  9. DramaQueenMokey

    DramaQueenMokey Well-Known Member

    I agree and he does get reformed at the end, the other villains here don't.
     
  10. BobThePizzaBoy

    BobThePizzaBoy Well-Known Member

    I debated including him or not for that reason. In the end I decided to considering there's a whole song about how evil he is at the beginning of the movie, he could sort of slide. I don't expect any votes for him.
     
  11. BobThePizzaBoy

    BobThePizzaBoy Well-Known Member

    Not even her voicing Jessie? :halo:
     
  12. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    Well Scrooge is kind of an anti hero. Started out promising but then had a downfall due to weakness. I guess the "villain" in A Christmas Carol is the abstract concept of Greed.
     
    DramaQueenMokey likes this.
  13. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    He just used her. He has members of his own species to fool around with. Come on... like he totally wasn't with any of those girls that were swiping the baseball Diamond.

    But I'm going with Doc Hopper ONLY because he's the only villain that was seeing to kill one of the Muppets. Singer was similar in intent, but considering he's a government agent, even though what he was doing was for his own ego, he thought it was the right thing.

    Similarly, there's also (while it doesn't count here) Miss Finch. She wasn't evil, she wasn't out to destroy Big Bird... she felt that what she was doing to him, putting him up with a standard family of his own kind (more or less), was the right thing to do. While Singer's interest in discovering aliens was part ego (going back to the fact that no one ever took him seriously), it was also due to him thinking he was doing the right thing. I really want to see more Muppet movies where they have an antagonist rather than a villain.

    A villain is always evil. An antagonist doesn't have to be. Candice of Phineas and Ferb, Inspector Zenegata of Lupin III... not evil at all, but they cause some sort of aggression against their respective shows' protagonists.

    Scrooge is his own villain... his own worst enemy. Muppet or no Muppet, A Christmas Carol was all about what greed and the pursuit of wealth can do to even the nicest of people. Sure, he had some past emotional baggage too (that wasn't in this version of the story, or at least not stressed) as well... but his problems were mostly with the price of success. He then finds redemption in the end.
     
  14. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    He did use her, but he also didn't want Piggy to hate him. He's just one of those charming rascals that's never going to change.
     
  15. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    Yes, but did you see how SCARED Piggy was of him in the changing room scene? That alone made me really dislike him. He didn't know when to stop, at all.

    For me, it's always been Rachel Bitterman because she actually managed to make Kermit stop believing...none of the others really got under his skin the way that she did. Besides, when she tells Fozzie that he smells like a burnt couch, THAT'S evil.
     
    newsmanfan and DramaQueenMokey like this.
  16. muppetlover123

    muppetlover123 Well-Known Member

    had to go with tex richman
     
  17. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    Look I'm not saying I'd marry the guy, lol, I agree he's pretty frightening at times. I'm just saying I think this is pretty much the first time he's actually has feelings for someone but he's just too sleazy a guy to follow through.
     
  18. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    Oh no, yes, I agree with you that he has feeling for her! But that doesn't make him less evil as a villian in my opinion... The movie does a good job of pitting his way of reacting to being in love with here against Kermit's way of reacting to being in love with her.

    The Muppet villains have always illuminated an exaggerated aspect of the Muppets own personalities. Doc Hopper had a dream, Martin Price wanted to put on a show...etc...they just did it wrongly.
     
    DrDientes and heralde like this.
  19. Dominicboo1

    Dominicboo1 Well-Known Member

    Doc Hopper all the way he tried to kill Kermit out of his own greed!
     
  20. JJandJanice

    JJandJanice Well-Known Member

    See for me, I can't vote for Scrooge, Long John or the Wicked Witch of the West, simply because they're not "original" in the Muppet worlds. Sure if we were talking about Disney villains, the same arguement could be made, but Disney has a way of making those villains original, if that makes any sense, :confused:.

    K. Edgar Singer was much too silly to take as a serious "evil villain" even if was wanting to cause harm to Gonzo. Nicky Hoilday was a threat for sorts for Miss. Piggy, but not so much as the Muppets to a whole, since he just wanted to steal the Baseball diamond.

    So for me I'm thinking between Doc Hopper, Rachel Bittermen, or Tex Richman. All were acted and did what they did out of greed, so it's hard to really make a choice between those three. It's a hard choice, but I think I'm going with Doc Hopper, cause he did hire someone to cause harm to Kermit if he didn't agree to be his mascot. Yeah Tex Richman wanted to own the Muppets studio and name which makes him pretty bad, but he didn't set out to harm a Muppet or possibly kill one.
     

Share This Page