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Muppets Are A Bad Influence

Discussion in 'Classic Muppets' started by Fozzie Bear, Jul 11, 2003.

  1. Fozzie Bear Moderator

    Well, we all DO love our Muppets. Whether we get lucky enough to catch a film of Sam and Friends in a museum, meet and greet them at bookstores, or see them on tv or in the movies, the Muppets have been known to entertain us and inspire us.

    But, they can be inspiring while at the same time being a bad influence. What I'm discussing is the whole deal that happened in the 80's.

    Everyone knows that I'm not a Muppet Babies fanatic, but I don't hate them. I like them when they can be considered a part of Piggy's Fantasy, which they WERE according to the film which debuted them, The Muppets Take Manhattan.

    Entertaining and cute, that's what the Muppet Babies were, and they spawned a whole other franchise for the Jim Henson Company...and, unfortunately, a million other industries.

    What I'm talking about here is the Looney Tunes Babies, Flintstones Kids, Yo Yogi, Tom and Jerry Kids, A Pup Named Scooby Doo, Sesame Babies, and so forth.

    It's amazing how one idea can just jump right out there and begin creating a plethora of similar ideas.

    It's all as scary as the millions of "Blair Witch" parodies that came out, except in this case nobody is crying into the camera and saying they're "sorry," and they should!

    So, my question is, of all the icky "baby" projects that came out, NOT including Muppet Babies but all those which came after Muppet Babies, did you like, dislike, or did you think the whole idea stunk altogether? Do you think the wave of baby projects would have happened anyhow?

    Honestly, I didn't like ANY of them. Fred Flintstone's dad sounded and looked like he looked before he was a kid, except he had a mustache. Scooby and (it seemed) Shaggy sounded the same as kids as they did when they got older. It all just gets to me, and I plain didn't like ANY of it.

    Also, what about Sesame Street Babies? Do you think they should off-shoot that into some pre-preschool program? Baby Big Bird running around after Baby Snuffy, Ernie and Bert in diapers, Baby Oscar. These characters came out as plush (except Snuffy) in the past, but what about a real show?

    What do you think? Am I just being a baby about this?

    FOZ
  2. Sweetums74 New Member

    None.

    The only reason is that the "babies" concept completely ignores the background history of the characters that was established in the original franchise.

    The creation of "baby" versions goes totally against the storyline/history of relationships that were created over time.

    To me this is like asking people to forget everything that they know and accept the new history explanation or to accept that there are 2 simultaneous existences of these characters.
  3. Fozzie Bear Moderator

    :eek:

    You're the very first person who ever agreed with me on this!!

    Wow. Someone agrees with me. Finally. That never happens...

    REPENT! THE END IS NEAR!!

    Seriously, though, that was always my argument, too. UNLESS the Muppet Babies franchise exists totally in Piggy's fantasies, they can't have existed that way.

    Fred, Wilma, Barney, and Betty all friends as babies throughout life isn't unheard of, but it just isn't plausible. That even goes against the stories laid out in the original series about how they all met!

    You're exactly right, tho. :)
  4. I never did understand why they went off with the "babies" thing. I mean we were shown "how the Muppets really got started (well, sort of approximately how it happened)" in TMM and then they tried to spring the notion of them having grown up in a nursery together. I don't like the thought. Plus I know someone whose mom wouldn't let them watch anything that had to do with Muppets because she thought the Muppet Babies were a bad influence for kids. So I never really thought much of them (except in MTM).

    --"Scary" Larry Wolf
  5. sarah_yzma Active Member

    I also think of it as something else.....kinda like MCC or MTI....they didn't happen, but they exist.....

    I think if the wouldn't have started the baby thing, it wouldn't have been long before some company did....just be glad it was the good ones that cashed in first
  6. Muppetsdownunder New Member

    I agree with everyone here!
  7. SpudMahna New Member

    Now that I think about it, this whole "baby" concept is starting to scare me.;)
  8. Fozzie Bear Moderator

    Here's a good question, folks: Is it easier for you to accept the notion of Muppet Babies if you relate them as a part of Miss Piggy's Fantasies?

    How can the correlation of that then be figured into the Muppet canon since they showed FILM FOOTAGE of themselves in the Muppets Family Christmas?
  9. SpudMahna New Member

    Oh my gosh, that is weird!:eek:
  10. OOK! New Member

    If you look at it like they do withthe Care Bear history then all possibilities are real and no form of history is the real one all are as valid as the others!
  11. Fozzie Bear Moderator

    Wow. That is a deep philosophy!!

    Oh, and welcome to MuppetCentral!! :)
  12. MustangRockstar New Member

    Of course it is always possible that the muppets were always actors and the muppet movie was their "movie" about making it big. If you want to make that argument than the muppets take manhattan could also be considered their "Story".

    I view the history of the muppets as i would view any comic character. Over time ideas have to be expanded or else the flavor goes stale. Without any kind of advancement the muppets story simply ended 20 years ago because they achieved their life long dreams of making it to hollywood.

    Maybe they grew up in the nursery. Maybe they left and found hollywood and as a result made movies about how they got their that werent true to the story. I don't think anyone nitpicked 8 Mile Apart because Eminem's girlfriend didnt look like Britney Murphy.

    The muppets like other great pop culture icons, never take themselves too seriously. They expand, do the unrealistic and live in a world that is ours and yet undeniably their own. The concept of the muppet babies gave depth to the muppets that honestly is probably unmatched. In reality what was scooter than other than just some orange muppet?

    The simpsons live everywhere and yet live nowhere as do many great character creations over the years. Rather than do what Star Trek fans did to their hobby by turning it into a science, we should embrace the story of the muppets as being unknown and filled with an infinite amount of possibilities. That is really the only way the muppets can survive into future generations. A theatre teacher once told me once that when one writes a play you must "leave as much open to the audience as possible, it's the only way they can relate and endear themselves to your story. If you give them everything inevitably the work loses some magic." It's the same idea here.

    Personally i say bring on the babies to DVD, it'll be a nice change of pace for the millenials who grew up on the show and are now reaching the age of starting their own famalies. I think our desire to disect the show highlights more of just how much imagination we lose as we age and how sometimes its just better to lose yourself in the fun of believing in magic rather than figuring out how it was done.
  13. OOK! New Member

    I really did start a very philosophical angle to this debate! Amen to that!
  14. Movies205 New Member

    Muppet Babies are part of the alternate universe I deem "What if?" and it very entertaining to see what if the muppets grew up together :) That all it is. Just like in the comic books when marvel relasing a mini-series saying the orgin of a certain character when it contradicts everything in the comics... It all part of the "What if" universe...
  15. OOK! New Member

    Seriously having to restrain from posting that annoying quote from the equally annoying movie Forrest Gump
  16. Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I couldn't agree more...

    However...



    I also couldn't agree more...



    What I'm sayin' is, Muppet Babies was a great show all its own. Maybe it's an extended version of Piggy's Fantasy. Who cares... it may even be an alternate dimention.

    I mean, sure we had crap like Yo Yogi, Sesame Babies, and the like, which made even less sense (why would Yogi Bear, who would have to be born prior to the 1940's, grow up in 1992? I have the same problems with Smallville)

    Of Course, other then the goofy writing of Pup named Scooby Doo, it did seem like a pretty sound alabi!

    But Let the Babies have their Bottle (or in this case DVD) and we shall soon see Fraggle Rock (the nonanimatedf one preferably) as well!
  17. MustangRockstar New Member

    Whats sad for all of us {myself included} is that we are essentially discussing a childrens show as if it were the lost play of Shakespeare.

    I think it's a testamant to how much the world vsn work you over that we even question one of the staples of our childhood rather than appreciate it for what it was. Creative, involving and generally good childs program.

    I don't think it tarnishes the muppets, but too many people forget they were once children too. Nevermind that none of them were born as adults {thank god for their mothers} and most likely they become muppet fans as kids. I dont think the majority of muppet fans were converts in their teens or later.
  18. Zack the Dog Active Member

    Here's my take, sure sometimes the story line is a little shaking then, but anyone can belive what they want which is the great thing, now

    I LOVED THE Tom and Jerry Kids theme song...but I hated the show...what did I do? I just watch the theme song and changed the channle after...LOL :sing: "It's the Tom and Jerry Kids! Gotta be there where all the act-ion....is...Oh sorry....

    I like A pup named Scooby Doo! theme song show and all! Daphie was kinda bratty and Fred was kind..somthing...but they were kids, scoob and shaggie were great! I maybe the only onr in the world but kinda like them more as kids!!!!no flames please!!!!


    Loonny Tunes Babies...Okay STOP right there!!! this show is terrible!!!! first off there's like two new characters that were NEVER herd of, the Pig and the yellow bird...NO NOT tweedy! the other one...I don't belive that Pigs name is petuna, and there's no Porky...the voices make me sick, and this show is really for the younger kids because there are no falling anvills and stuff. I know there were Looney Tunes babies before this show with the more classic charaters (Wlie, Road Runner) but we could do with or with out them, at least we could do with out the show!!The only thing that works in that show is Granny!

    Disney Babies...Shhhhhhhhh! they might make a show if they hear us! What's that??!? TOO LATE?!?! NOOOO!!!! Right now they are making toy robot versions of Mickey, Donald, Goofy ect...I don't understand?....

    Yo Yogi, It's nice to hear people remembering this show!! I actualy like it! it didn't make much sence from classic HB with Doggie Daddy beining grown up and Yogi, Huck, Snaggle Puss and others being younger, but I thought it was a cool show, i wish it would turn up on Boomarag!!!!

    Fintstone Kids: another show, I like but yet didn't like, I liked the theme song, but some of the characters got on my nevres, I still liked the show, but not very much...if that makes any sence....


    Gaget Boy...there is no need for it....per gabage.

    Sesame Street Babies...There is no need for it...Elmo still is a baby in my eyes....I like Stuffy just the way is...HUGE!!!!!;-)

    and Muppet Babies, as long as they aren't in the real Muppets way, there okay by me, but "i'd rather be watching the Muppet show", as I always said when I was younger.

    Zack)Rowlf the, "I'd rather be watching the Muppet Show" Dog.
  19. Fozzie Bear Moderator

    YOU have done your research, sir!! Good go.

    Now, let's discuss what happens when they make all these characters into OLD PEOPLE?!!

    That'll stink because :boo: :sleep: will be DEAD. It's okay, though; they fared okay as Marley & Marley.
  20. Mr.Penguin Member

    Actually Zack the dog, Petunia Pig was a Looney Tunes character.
    She was like Porky's girlfriend. She appeared in so little cartoons that
    nobody knows who she is. Petunia is like Horace Horsecollar(of Disney):
    They didn't get a starring role until no one recognized them.
    Whew....

    - :zany:
    Zoot Fan 1981 likes this.

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