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Ninja Turtles

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by beaker, Aug 22, 2002.

  1. gymkatarules

    gymkatarules New Member

    I still have to disagree with everyone (everyone who disagrees with me, that is) about the best Turtles film. It's the second one. And it's not because it has Vanilla Ice in it, thank you. I would explain why, but I've been staring at this computer screen for too long and I think I mentioned in some other thread before. Anyway, Secret of the Ooze forever, man.

    -Chris
  2. grail

    grail New Member

    there is one reason that i disagree about which one is better...Casey Jones. i really like Elias Koteas in pretty much everything i can remember seeing him in (even TMNT 3), and i really liked the way he pulled the character off. i remember he was cool in the cartoon, then the movie hit, and...that mask. i badly want a copy of that mask. TMNT2 was overall a better movie, but when you compare Keno(sp?) to Casey, it just dosn't stack up...

    besides, ever since "Surf Ninjas" Ernie Reyes Jr. has lost favor with me...
  3. gymkatarules

    gymkatarules New Member

    Haha. Yeah, Ernie isn't the best actor ever, but is Casey Jones' character in the first one really all that interesting or even necessary? Besides, he didn't have the good lines (paraphrasing):

    Keno: "Hey, ladies...how about a little ride on my motorcycle?"
    Girl: "In your dreams."
    Keno: "All right...but when I do, I'll dream of something a little thinner." *rides off*

    Hahaha. Can't beat it.

    -Chris
  4. grail

    grail New Member

    okay, i give...you have a definate point there.

    though Casey still had the mask working for him...and the bit with him and Raph in the park was classic.

    "A Jose Conseco bat? Tell me, you didn't pay money for this?"
  5. Buck-Beaver

    Buck-Beaver Well-Known Member

    My thoughts and rebuttals:

    >> I dont know about cool... www.ninjaturtles.com is far from
    >> keeping things in line with the coolness. If ya go to the site,
    >> the actual news stuff hasnt been updated for 5 years,

    I haven't looked at it for a while but while I do remember it's badly designed, there IS alot of stuff on it, mostly in the form of semi-regular updates from Kevin Eastman. News of the John Woo deal and the new series did actually break there first (and so it should!).

    They also have stuff I had never seen before like the 1st Mirage comic (which is hard to find even as a reprint sometimes) online for free and alot of info on the past stuff. There isn't tons of news because, well, there hasn't been tons to report for quite awhile. I'll agree it's probably not a fanboy's dream, but it is still a TMNT site worth checking out.

    >> I still have to disagree with everyone (everyone who
    >> disagrees with me, that is) about the best Turtles film. It's the
    >> second one. And it's not because it has Vanilla Ice in it, thank
    >> you.

    I said Vanilla Ice was one of the PROBLEMS!! :p

    >> i really like Elias Koteas in pretty much everything i can
    >> remember seeing him in (even TMNT 3), and i really liked the
    >> way he pulled the character off.

    Elias is such a good actor I think he can bring anything to life. That exchange with Ralph in the park is one of my favorite scenes too.

    BTW - anyone ever notice how the action in the Turtles flicks (especially the first one) resembles the action in Jackie Chan's movies? They're all produced by the same people, Golden Harvest.
  6. Buck-Beaver

    Buck-Beaver Well-Known Member

    In addition to Kevin Clash, there are tons of Muppet folk throughout the TMNT movies. A few puppeteers that come to mind are:

    Leif Tilden (Dinosaurs) performed Leonard's body in the 1st movie.

    Rob Mills (Ludo in Labyrinth, Junior Gorg on Fraggle Rock & Robbie on the last season of "Dinosaurs") puppeteered Donatello in TMNT.

    Rick Lyon (puppeteer on "Sesame" and many other Henson projects for years) puppeteered Tokka in TMNT II and puppeteered Donatello in TMNT III.

    Gord Robertson (another fabulous but lesser known Muppet puppeteer) puppeteered Rohzor in TMNT II and Michelangelo in the 3rd movie.

    Mak Wilson, who works on most of the creature shop's projects, was the Chief Puppeteer on the first two movies and performed Turtles in both (I can't recall which ones).

    Also, few people realize one of Brian Henson's first directing gigs was as 2nd Unit Director (as well as a puppeteer) on the 1st Turtles movie.

    There are lots more examples, but I can't think of them right now.
  7. gymkatarules

    gymkatarules New Member

    I said the reason I like Turtles II isn't Vanilla Ice, like some people. Though he doesn't hurt, really. I mean, it didn't look quite so dumb at the time. Macy Gray in Spider Man will look a lot more out of place in ten years. Ah, never mind.

    -Chris
  8. Cantus Rock

    Cantus Rock New Member

    *Shamless Plug Ahead*


    I have every episode of the original series in good condition (194 episodes, 13 VHS tapes). Anyone interested, check out my site, email me, etc. :)

    Sorry about that, but I had to do it. I'm a huge turtles fan also.

    -Matt
  9. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    Well, on the subject of not a lot of news to update on ninjatrutles.com...oh boy. Never in th elast five years has there been *so* much news to report! Check out the new Muppet figure cover toyfare. VERY nice 2 page special on the upcoming TMNT animated fox show and figures. I for one cant wait for that.

    As for TMNT 2...here's a breakdown why TMNT is better, and why they got worse and worse til that Next Mutation straight to video movie.

    *The original was filmed in the Fall of 1989, that oh so epic year.
    It had JHC and creature shop ALL over it. It had the dark edgy tone of the *original* Mirage comics, not the of the time Archie comics and cartoon.

    *TMNT 2, well I guess congree or the MPAA didnt like all the swearing, violence, and dark edgy mood of the first. So TMNT 2 got so dumbed down, theyre now using balogna and salami as weapons. And Vanilla Ice...c'mon, that was on par with Hulk Hogan ruining MFS.

    *I wont even comment on TMNT 3. I was shocked how bad that was. If it had just stayed in modern NYC it would have been at leats a little better.

    *TMNT: The Next Mutation...actually better than TMNT 3, and had a return to puppetry. Somehwere between TMNT 2 and 3 as far as coolness.
  10. gymkatarules

    gymkatarules New Member

    "Combat cold cuts!" Haha! I don't know. I just think the second one isn't funny cause it's goofy, it's funny cause it's funny. Plain and simple.

    I sure don't blame them for putting Vanilla Ice in it. He was hip (for a few moments), so why not? I have the Ninja Rap on my computer and it rocks.

    "Go ninja go ninja go! I made another funny!"

    -Chris
  11. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    I actually like the rap during the credits of the first TMNT better. Plus I dont think JHC was as involved if at all with the second as they were wiht the original.

    Btw, as far as big genre trilogies go...its usually the third ones I love. Muppets Take Manhattan and Jedi blow the other respective film sin those trilogies away in my mind. The third is usually the most epic, thought for TMNT its TMNT one and back to the future its the second one I like.
  12. gymkatarules

    gymkatarules New Member

    Woah woah woah you think The Muppets Take Manhattan is the best one? Holy cow. Back to the Future II? Return of the Jedi? Beaker has truly flipped his wig this time.

    -Chris
  13. gymkatarules

    gymkatarules New Member

    To be continued on a new thread momentarily...

    -Chris
  14. Buck-Beaver

    Buck-Beaver Well-Known Member

    Actually, The Next Mutation was never supposed to be a movie and wasn't a straight-to-video release, it was the pilot for the live action TMNT series "The Next Mutation." I'll stop talking about that series right now before I start *****' swearing (oops, too late!).

    Actually, considering the budget they probably had to work with, the turtles suits were OK.

    I think the 1st and 2nd movies are so different in style and tone and that opinion is split, not so much because one was better than the others, but because one or the other apeals to you more based on your preferences.

    ...and I liked the 3rd movie! It wasn't the best, but it didn't completely suck either!
  15. Buck-Beaver

    Buck-Beaver Well-Known Member

    I think the extent of JHC's involvement was basically through the Creature Shop, providing puppeteers and the animatronics. Jim was quoted at the time of TMNT's release (right before his death) as saying he was not comfortable with the Ninja Turtles because of the amount of violence.

    They actually didn't want to take TMNT II but the the producers were offering mega $$ and the turtle craze was in full swing. The Creature Shop apparently had very little work at the time and needed the money - remember that it was the work on the "TMNT" movies that really put the Creature Shop on the FX map with the Henson Performance Control System, etc.
  16. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    I will blindly back up all my arguments here;)

    >>>remember that it was the work on the "TMNT" movies that really put the Creature Shop on the FX map with the Henson Performance Control System, etc<<<

    Regarding any position JHC may have had that TMNT was too violent...Im not sure what is officially said...being that TMNT the first one is close to the original book, and not the crappy archie stuff or cartoon. And JHC is all about edgy, look at Dark Crystal.
    And, if youll recall TMNT is featured prominently on the JH the Works cover of the book, and as ya said it put em on the map(Creature Shop wise in the effects community) They went from way cool animatronics and puppetry to all suits. blah.

    >>>Actually, The Next Mutation was never supposed to be a movie and wasn't a straight-to-video release, it was the pilot for the live action TMNT series "The Next Mutation." I'll stop talking about that series right now before<<<

    Well I dont remember it on tv, I just remember a vdieo film package called "TMNT The Next Mutation" that packaged it as the newest TMNT full length feature. I mean if JHC can weasel people into thinking KSY is actually a movie...besides I thought "TMNT 4" was better than the third one.

    >>>Woah woah woah you think The Muppets Take Manhattan is the best one? Holy cow. Back to the Future II? Return of the Jedi? Beaker has truly flipped his wig this time<<<

    Youre kidding right? Have you flipped your wig?(whatever that means) Lets look at all three trilogies mentioned. BAck to the Future 3 was one of the worst sequels Ive ever seen next to Never Ending Story 2 & 3. Back to the Future 2 came out in 1989 and has to be one of my top 50 genre films. How can ya beat Jaws 19? Jedi....the most epic of the three Star Wars films...Star Wars one looks very 70's, such is why the later added cgi effects dont work. I didnt care much for GMC or Empire, so middle films usually dont do much for me. Same goes for Episode Two.
    And MTM...a sweet concerto, I mean that ending alone with all 3 of the time properties. And the feel of it. TMM was cool, but scenes of KErmit being tortured, or GMC...I dont know.
    Jedi and MTM came out right at the beginning of the early mid 80's(or late early 80's) right when the 80's really took off.
    I'll address 'trilogies' in the other thread.
  17. Buck-Beaver

    Buck-Beaver Well-Known Member

    >> Regarding any position JHC may have had that TMNT was too
    >> violent...Im not sure what is officially said...being that TMNT
    >> the first one is close to the original book, and not the crappy
    >> archie stuff or cartoon. And JHC is all about edgy, look at Dark
    >> Crystal.

    Well, I believe the issue wasn't the Turtles "darkness" or "edginess" the issue was the martial arts violence and Jim Henson was quoted a few times I believe saying he was not completely comfortable with it. Although Dark Crystal and Labyrinth were dark films, they were necessarily violent.

    The Shop, although they don't hide the fact they did the TMNT films did want to disassociate themselves from the movies after the first one, but took the sequel because the shop was hard up for work at that point. They opted out of the third one.

    >> Well I dont remember it on tv, I just remember a vdieo film
    >> package called "TMNT The Next Mutation" that packaged it as
    >> the newest TMNT full length feature.

    Yeah, I think I've seen that at Blockbuster but it was the TV series pilot - the show died a quick death which is probably why you never heard about it or saw it.

    There was a TMNT 4 in development for awhile after the 3rd one came out but by then Turtlemania was dying out and the Power Rangers were just around the corner...

    >> Back to the Future 2 came out in 1989 and has to be one of
    >> my top 50 genre films.

    Alot of the films you mention Beaker do have a bum wrap from genre fans and I think BTTF II is very underrated, but I am sorry the first one is a perfect film.

    Oddly enough, the original screenplay was a mess. You can find it online at some of the screenplay sites.
  18. fluffmuppet

    fluffmuppet Member

    Actually they crashed at the John Woo TMNT 4 movie project!!! Grrr!

    But they are having a TMNT cartoon in Febuary 2003!! I wanna tape every episode! Weee!

    Here's a page that shows the character designs:
    http://www.toonzone.net

    :D

    I'm so happy! I love the second movie, too, and I love Donatello! Look at my website, I made a Donatello puppet! *lol*

    *goes and watches her -Behind the Shells- video*

    ::gets fwapped::
  19. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    fluffmuppet and all other turtle fans rejoice!!!

    I went to my local TRU last night, and was pleased to get a Fox Box! My mom had said they had previewed last Sunday on Fox the new shows(grr I missed it) but a new happy meal like thing called the 'fox Box' shows off all the new shows with a cd-rom, mini TMNT comic(actually color unlike most TMNT comics!) stickers, etc. Remember Muscle? Theyre back! Ultraman is back, along with lots of other cool Japanese imports...

    It pains me to read the John Woo cgi project has been sidelines...
    but starting next February, the new TMNT cartoon airs, which will be the return of the Turtles!

    So Transformers Armada, TMNT....does it get any better than this?
  20. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    Just look through the Fox Box promo cd-rom. Sadly the TMNT clip is just actual turtles on a manhole in NYC...so no footage yet of it.
    They must be keeping it a surprise.

    Ultimate Muscle looks entertaining, if not with a very mid 80's look ala fist of the North Star. Remember M.U.S.C.L.E. men, thos elittle pvcs? This is the cartoon of it, and its very Smackdown ish. Theres even an nWo parody group in it.
    Sadly the rest is Pokemon and Power Ranger sludge.

    Just found a site that works(the above toonzone link doesnt seem to work on my computer)
    http://www.medaforce.com/modules.php?name=News&new_topic=30

    Here are the individual jpg links:

    new TMNT logo:
    http://news.toonzone.net/images/2002-08/turtles.jpg

    leo: http://news.toonzone.net/images/2002-08/leonardo.jpg
    mike: http://news.toonzone.net/images/2002-08/michaelangelo.jpg
    don: http://news.toonzone.net/images/2002-08/don.jpg
    raph: http://news.toonzone.net/images/2002-08/raphael.jpg

    Not bad...this is the first art Ive seen of them, thankfully a heavy anime style and original TMNT comic look has been added.
    Definately soom great stuff to look forward to in 2003!


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