Puppet Making

[superglue]

My husband and I live in Southeast VA, and we're very involved in the puppet ministry at our church. We're considering starting our own puppet-making business, not only because of our passion for puppets, but also because we're finding it very difficult to purchase quality puppets at reasonable prices (especially for churches). I made my first Pannabecker puppet last year, and I love it! Has anyone started a business such as this, and does anyone have any suggestions?? I just joined the forum yesterday...

 

[Iokitek]

Yeah let's talk ministry's. Here's my two cents that I've been keeping to myself for way too long already.

To be honest I see alot of puppetbuilders out there who build puppets for ministry's. Too many actually. My personal aversion for ministry activities put aside, I would reccommend not starting up a business like this unless you feel that you can really compete with others.

But it seems abit skewed to me actually to make money and trying to compete in spreading Gods word instead of working together on it. And why not just build puppets for people in general and for general uses instead of trying to get your church community to buy them? (in the name of God even?) I mean what's the deal here? Can't you put on a show for children without having to mention God all the time? Don't get me wrong. I am a religious person myself. But to me these seem like sects who are trying to manipulate little children by using puppets. The whole idea makes me feel sick to my stomach. Especially because I've been there. I know those kinds of people and so I can see their true nature.

I'm also surprised at how easily some of these people rip each other off by selling their own sommunity members poor quality puppets for high prices. If I would ever do something like this I would make sure that I do fair business. If I truly believe in God then I should also be a righteous person when dealing with others. And actually I feel that religious activities should be non-profit. So I would never start up a business solely aimed at ministries or whatever.

Besides, most Bible puppets are caucasians. Think about it. it doesn't make any sense. Jesus was black! And not just Jesus.

That's all I have to say about it.

 

[Buck-Beaver]

First of all, welcome to the forum.

Second of all, what I'm about to say may come off as harsh - and it's meant to - but it's largely the truth and will do you a lot of good to hear now before you get started and invest a lot of time and possibly money.

Not to dismiss your idea out of hand - but there is a message like this posted on a puppetry message board at least once per week. Just Google the term "Christian Ministry Puppet" and you can find links to hundreds, if not thousands of ministry puppets, many of which sell for under for well under $100.

Your competition won't be limited to Christian Puppetry companies either. Commercial toy makers like Manhattan Toy and Folkmanis offer puppets that are really good - and better than post Ministry puppets - for as little as $20 US.

I don't know the extent of your experience as a puppet builder, but it's good you've started with David's kits because they're the best around. It also means you can't use his patterns as per the agreement you entered in to by purchasing his kits.

Most of the builders that I know who are really good have been at it for 5, 10, 15 years. Everyone has to start somewhere, but making puppets for your church or a local Christian group is one thing but to have a successful business selling puppets - especially quality ones - is an entirely different animal.

How many years have you been building puppets? Because if it's less than three - unless you have a lot of experience in a related field - you're probably not ready to start a company doing this. Because if you do you're doing a disservice to your customers because you'll be simultaneously providing an inferior product (yours) while denying them a superior one (the puppets already on the market).

Almost anyone can buy a pattern, make a few lousy puppets and sell them on ebay, but they won't necessarily have much luck or even break. To really succeed you'll have to focus on four things:

1. Have a vision
2. Build a better (not necessarily cheaper) puppet
3. Think (and design) different
4. Focus on quality, not price​

1. Have a vision

Ask yourself what's your vision? What's your goal? Why do you want to do this? Making cheap puppets for ministry is fine and noble but people already to that. How about making better puppets? Empowering Christian puppeteers by raising the standards of the market and encouraging them to do something new and different? That's a vision worth pursuing.


2. Build a Better Puppet

Let's say you have lots of experience and are confident, really confident that you can make a superior puppet. Run to your local bookstore and pick up a copy of "Rules For Revolutionaries" by Guy Kawasaski. Guy was one of the guys behind the launch of the original Mac and he knows a thing or two about producing superior products. It's a great book for anyone selling anything.

The sad truth as Io pointed out is that 90% of what's produced for the Christian Puppetry Ministry is absolute and complete crap. I'm not going to name names, but most (not all) of these companies produce 3rd rate Muppet look-a-likes that only sell because the standards of the Christian puppetry market are unbelievably low and most buyers in that market don't know the difference. Whether they realize it or not - and many of them do - they're essentially profiting from their buyer's ignorance which strikes me as fairly unChristian.

And therein lies the potential for what I've always thought would be a killer business if you could pull it off. Figure out how to smash the mold these companies use and sell really original, really high quality puppets at good prices (not the lowest) and you'll clean up. The Christian Puppetry market is begging for someone really smart and talented to come in and take over.


3. Think (and design) Different

A good business model to study would be Steve Axtell's (note I said to study Steve's business, not rip him off). Steve's company Axtell Expressions produces Ventriloquist dummies that are nothing like the conventional dolls that have dominated the vent market since the 1800s. He's probably the #1 company for these in the world because he produces a product that's nothing like anyone else's.

Steve Axtell is probably one of the savviest guys, business-wise, in the puppet building business. He's constantly innovating and designing new products. If some hack decides to rip off one of Steve's products this year he'll be back with something better next year (and probably send lawyers after the person who infringed on his work).

You can check out Steve's site at www.axtell.com

Being different is why this site is called MuppetCentral.com and not Kukla-Fran-Ollie.com. Burr Tillstrom was a great puppeteer and I love his 1950s TV series Kukla Fran and Ollie (ask your parents or Grandparents) but Jim Henson was revolutionary. He took the existing mold for puppetry, smashed it and made something newer, better and different.

Not many people can be as innovative as Jim Henson, but the world would be a better place if we all tried to be. There's a great book on the best seller lists right now that explores this idea - Jim Collin's "Good to Great". Pick it up if you can.


4. Focus on quality, not price

Don't compete on price, compete on quality. Businesses that compete on price always, always fail. I'm serious and I know firsthand of what I speak; bad (low) pricing did in my old puppet building business and it happens in every industry. Offering the lowest price only works if you have massive economies of scale. What's that? Think of it this way, Wal-Mart has massive economies of scale and you don't.

Rick Lyon - another of my favourite builders - has a great website at www.lyonpuppets.com. He also sells puppets for film and television that often cost around $5,000 US. He does this while competing against builders that produce puppets that look somewhat similar (believe me, they only look similar) and cost about 1/50th of what his do. How does he do that? By offering a vastly superior product - check out this page where he explains the difference between his work and the competition's. He charges more and justifies it. Clients like Nickelodeon, Avenue Q and Comedy Central seem to agree.

I'll say it again - price fairly and competitively but don't compete based on having the lowest price. It's a loser's game. There's always another guy (or couple) who can do the same thing only cheaper. Do something different, do it better and you'll succeed.

Good luck and please post here often!

 

[biblebetty]

Good Advice

Hi,
what was said up above is good advice, I'm a Christian and have been involved with secular and christian puppetry for 20 yrs. Needless to say the person who was criticizing christians and the way they treated each other wasn't involve with puppetry for very long. I found that the puppetry world was very difficut to get into, to learn to use puppets proporly or to learn to make puppets and to try to get information from puppeteer was like pulling teeth. It came to the point of being no help at all, no one wanted to talk about how to make puppets or even how to use puppets and have good performances. It was a very long road. I'm sorry you could not find low priced puppets. There are many low priced puppets that are well made. But you have to look for them and it takes some research. I'm also a puppet builder and sometimes it was cheaper to buy a puppet than it is to build one. I usuallly build puppets for special events and for scripts that requirer a special kind of puppet that is not on the market. I also think that before you criticize a group or organization you better make sure the organization you represent doesn't have a problem. I love the puppet world and most people are very friendly, kind and are very helpful, but yrs ago this was not the case.
Oh, and by the way Christianty is a relationship not a religion and Jesus was Jew not black read you bible!
Bible Betty

 

[superglue]

Thanks BibleBetty & Buck Beaver

Thanks for the responses. BibleBetty and Buck Beaver - you all have obviously been around a while, and your responses were very valuable. This is truly something we just started thinking about, and by no means are we ready to jump into it just yet.

I've found that the puppets that I have been involved in purchasing through our children's ministry over the last couple years have not been very "hardy." They come apart easily, and some are VERY difficult to manipulate. They're definitely from reputable companies, no doubt. Pannabecker puppets are AWESOME... and I know I can't sell those. If I could just get my church to pay for the supplies (and if I could become independently wealth ), I would make them nothing but his puppets. And since Armslength doesn't currently sell puppets, well, we can't BUY his puppets.

Our idea in starting our own business was certainly NOT to capitalize on our church's needs or any other ministry's needs, but to make a quality, easy-to-manipulate puppet that doesn't cost a ton. I've been to many, many, many websites... maybe I'm not finding the right ones... but many of the puppets are, well, very unattractive... some kinda scarey! The puppets from The Puppet Shoppe (www.thepuppetshoppe.com) are very attractive, in my opinion, but because we've never used one of their puppets, I have no idea how easy or hard to manipulate they are.

The reason I posted my question was to get opinions on the subject... and I did, which I am thankful for.

Now, a few thoughts on puppets in the ministry:

The purpose to use puppets (or drama or video or dance or whatever) in ministry is to not only show that worshiping God can be done in many ways, but also to appeal to different groups of people of all ages and share the good news of salvation through Christ. Salvation through Christ isn't religion, by the way, and being religious doesn't mean you're a Christian. The GREATEST news you can share with anyone, young or old, is how Christ loves you and how he did for your sins. Through Christ ONLY can you get your "pass" into heaven.

Oh... by the way, Happy Easter! Christ is Risen! Alleluia!

 

[superglue]

Lyon Puppets

Thanks for the link, Buck Beaver. I LOVE those puppets. Are they easy to manipulate???

 

[biblebetty]

have you tried?

I couldn't agree with you more. Have you tried "Puppet productions or One way street" I know their puppets are a lot of money but they have sales at the end of the year and the prices are really good. I'm trying to find a card for another puppet company that is based in Arizona, but I found their puppets in Florida when I was on vacation. they make very good puppets and the appreance of the puppets are wonderful. oh if i could just find that card?!. what kind of puppets do you build? can I see them?

Bible Betty

 

[ravagefrackle]

First of all, welcome to the forum,
Do something different, do it better and you'll succeed.

Good luck and please post here often!

BUCK , i think that was beutifal, well said, a great post!!!!!!!! ,

 

[ravagefrackle]

I've found that the puppets that I have been involved in purchasing through our children's ministry over the last couple years have not been very "hardy." They come apart easily, and some are VERY difficult to manipulate. They're definitely from reputable companies, no doubt. Pannabecker puppets are AWESOME... and I know I can't sell those. If I could just get my church to pay for the supplies (and if I could become independently wealth ), I would make them nothing but his puppets. And since Armslength doesn't currently sell puppets, well, we can't BUY his puppets.

well this will be a issue you will encounter no matter were you buy your puppets,

thier are many reasons for this here a just a few

1) most likely you are dealing with ameteur puppeteers, who just by nature of thier inexpierence will be hard on puppets

2) no matter what mass produced company you buy from they are not building with durability in mind, but price concerns, also they are using materials that are easier to comeby, the foam (if any ) will be a more readily availible sort , and the fabrics will not nessarily be the greatest.

3)these company are not really building with the performer in mind, they are produced in bulk by people over seas for the most part (im not saying that they all are im sure some are done here in the USA as well, or where ever you happen to be on the planet )very rarely is the original designer a puppeteer , and even in cases where th designer is a builder, or puppeteer , sacrifices are made to make the puppet easy to produce and cost effective

4)flesh tone puppets will always get dirtier quicker, its not like you can just toss a puppet in the wash and hope it will come out ok,

5) even the pro companies have to replace thier puppets, the Muppets, Barney ,the cast of Ave Q, all get replaced as the puppets wear out, it is the nature of the beast ,

 

[Iokitek]

I deleted my message. it's nothing but trouble. and I have decided to not hanga round here too much anymore. Unless when I have some questions