Puppety Opinion Please

[Buck-Beaver]

If I may toss my two cents in here.... I don't mind when people ask me questions about something I know, or do. My biggest problem is when they don't have the gumption to do a little research on their own, first.

I think that's it exactly. I was at a seminar this week where someone commented that if you want to find a mentor or get advice from someone you have to be respectful and not be a "time sucker" or expect them to do all of your work work for you.

 

[Buck-Beaver]

I do have one issue though with buck's comments- Who decides what quality makes a puppet "PROFESSIONAL." I would call many of the puppets for sale professional. I would certainly call puppet-planets professional. Certainly more professional than puppets from one way street- not to say that OWS are not to be considered professional.

Well, I have to think back because this thread is over a year and a half old, but more than likely I put "professional" in quotation marks because just as you say it's highly subjective.

Buying a puppet is like buying a car. Of course a puppet that costs $100 probably won't be quite as nice as one that costs $5,000. That's pretty indisputable (Rick Lyon explains some of the differences that price can make here).

To put it another way, a Honda Civic isn't as well built as Porsche, but that doesn't mean the Civic isn't a nice car that will do what you need it to.

There are lots of very talented builders - Pauly and Michelle among them - who produce great work and price it low to keep it affordable for their customers. There's a big market for that. If anything Pauly and Michelle's work is probably underpriced and not representative of the kind of puppets I'm talking about.

The cheaper puppets I usually knock are the kinds put out by companies like Kids on the Block and to a lesser extent OWS - relatively expensive puppets that are extremely derivative and poor quality. It may not even be fair to lump OWS in that category because I've heard they've made some big leaps in terms of quality in recent years, but the puppets I've seen in person were not very good. I won't even get started on the horrible expensive puppets KotB forces it's groups to buy from them.

To me, a really good high quality puppet - I don't want to say "professional" because it's such a loaded word - is one that's light, doesn't look derivative, can be manipulated properly in a life-like manner and is built to last out of durable, flexible and high quality materials. But you know what? Half of the puppets I have don't meet that criteria because they had to be built quickly or made on the cheap and that's OK too.

In the end whatever works, works.

 

[PaulyPuppets]

Here, here. Thanks, Buck. .....Pauly
www.puppetsnstuff.com

 

[Show and Tell]

I believe that patterns cannot be patented; patents are only issued for original inventions. Patterns are covered by copyright. You can double check this with the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office. They have a web site at http://www.uspto.gov

I think to register a business name in most U.S. states you simply file a DBA or "Doing Business As" through your city or county.

I reopened this thread in a failed attemp to find a info on registering my new business.LOL kinda funny how it seemed for a moment this old thread almost opened a can of worms. Thanks for the answer Buck. I'll check into that link.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I'm not addressing anyone in particular, but on the topic of so-called "trade secrets."

I'm Vice-President of the Mid-South Cartoonists Association (part of the Southeastern Chapter of the National Cartoonists Society), and my own character (you all know him, Muley) is also a puppet (and mascot costume). This isn't necessarily about puppetry, but ties-in.

Even though I've had the cartoon character for 25 years this year, I'm still learning more and more about comic stripping. There's more to the process than just reading about it in books or online, or practicing it. It's about learning from people who DO it. My pal, Greg Cravens ("The Buckets" syndicated cartoonist) has offered to sit down with me (yet again) and help me learn what he can teach me what he knows to better my own art, but also to help further the art of cartooning--the sole purpose of the Mid-South Cartoonists Association!

Regardless what I can read about the technique or business of the career of comic strips, I'll learn more from someone who is actually DOING that. And in turn, what I learn I can teach someone who is less knowledgeable about the topic than I.

And it all kind of ties-in to puppetry, performance and building. Everyone is so keen on their own 'trade secrets' that they are afraid to pass it on. Okay, so you taught yourself something. Well, someone else knows that same technique too--and probably before you did. At the same time, there's someone else who is trying to learn it. To say that someone hasn't gumption to research it and try to learn said 'trade secret' is hypocritical at best, especially when they live so far away and won't ever even be near enough to warrnt the title of 'the competition!'

I don't know everything, and I'm not an encyclopedia of information about puppetry, but I know what I know and that's all available to whoever is willing to listen and learn. For me personally, the promotion of the art of cartooning and the art of puppetry and the continuation of either depends on me as someone who KNOWS about the topic to teach someone who NEEDS to know so they can become professional enough to BE an artist in that field. Otherwise, you have a bunch of amateurs running around trying to figure it out and with more amateurs than those in the know we stand a possibility of discrediting our own professionalism by 1) folks seeing the amateur art first and then considering that everyone performs that same way and, 2) letting an artform die by not promoting and teaching it when we can.

After all, if everyone kept tight-lipped about 'trade secrets' then we wouldn't have universities or educators, and the books and websites we suggest that someone hasn't had 'gumption' to research first wouldn't ever have existed if those authors were tight-lipped to begin with, would we?

On a semi-hypocritical note of what all I just said: My characters in particular (Muley and friends) have patterns designated specifically for my own design, and those patterns would never be shared because of they are particularly distinct; however, I have a basic people-pattern (and even use the Blue Boy Pattern off AOL with some alterations--that's how I built my Mahna-Mahna puppet) which I'll share upon request via mail (as long as SASE is included).

So, in summary: There are no 'trade secrets,' especially not within these forums because someone before you already figured out what you know, and though you may have struggled to figure it out we as professionals should educate others on how it's done as appreciation for having been given that knowledge.

I'm an open book and when I can I'm willing to offer up whatever information someone might need. Unfortunately, I don't have as much time these days to pay much attention to the boards. I just hope others will follow my lead and educate those with a passion for learning and plan on using what they learn.

Those without passion, then I just don't have the time. You can tell the difference.

 

[Show and Tell]

I don't believe anyone here is having to reinvent the wheel or anything. The fact is, anyone that really has a genuine desire to learn this art is going to take the time to do some simple research to look up that information that has already been discovered. As has already been stated, I think you've really gotta be some jerk to just withhold simple things like where to buy materials or links to patterns or helps that have already been made public information on the net. But in the same respect I think it rather lazy of someone with any desire to become a puppeteer, puppet builder or rock collector to not even bother trying to locate this info unless they have no knowledge that this info exists. Many times new people come into this forum as I did myself requesting information on how to get started. I am extremely greatful for all the help I have recieved here. I've learned incredibly valuable info has shaped the direction of my career in life. That being said, I have had to invest much of my time researching old threads much of my money buying materials tools of the trade and books, videos, news letters and going to performances where I could take what I have learned here and see it work to gain a better understanding.

All I'm saying is public info should be freely distributed since as Fozzie said it was given to you. But don't just hand them everything. There is something very inspiring about the research as well.

Now on the other hand, inventions of your own I can understand not wanting them just given out. But PLEASE!!! Don't just let that invention die with you. Give it to someone. Even if it never becomes common knowledge still give it to someone. Someone who will use it and keep it alive. Archive it or something.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Now on the other hand, inventions of your own I can understand not wanting them just given out. But PLEASE!!! Don't just let that invention die with you. Give it to someone. Even if it never becomes common knowledge still give it to someone. Someone who will use it and keep it alive. Archive it or something.

That's why I have 2 Muley apprentices...one is my best-friend Lin (Vice-President of Mule Operations), and a girl who is just starting out--I'm teaching her the 'threads' of puppet building (various simple puppets), and then one day she'll be helping me with Muley and Friends.

The patterns for Muley are all on file, so if something happened to me, it's all available to whoever comes afterwards to continue the character, and on the cartoon, puppet, and suit levels I have someone designated. These patterns won't be made public, obviously since they're basically trademarked, but they are available to those who will need it.

I do have links and patterns available to those who need them, though, as mentioned above and I'll pass them all around the table for some sampling--so break out the spoons! heh heh...

 

[King Jim]

Ditto!

 

[scarylarrywolf]

Personally, I think it is ridiculous to keep any info one has learned to oneself -- I wonder how amazing it would be if everyone shared all their building secrets, how quickly we could all advance to the next step. It's a socialist idea I suppose, but I'm willing to share any and all of my secrets with others so they can build up from that point, and then share the info they gather the next time around.

This parallels my belief that copyrights are a hinderance to artistic excellence. They can be useful for somethings, such as ensuring that a song doesn't get used for opposite purposes than for which it was written -- that would destroy the original artist's intent. However, I would strongly advocate free usage of songs or any visual works which, when incorporated into a film, correspond beautifully with the message of that film and essentially combine forces to spread the original message more powerfully. As someone who does produce some music and visual art, I honestly think it would be greedy of me to hold them back from accomplishing those purposes, and they would bring me more joy than the creating of them to see them being used by other people to spread the same messages. So the same goes for puppet building info. I think that is one of the ultimate joys of creating -- building off each other.

 

[Iokitek]

That's great when it's your hobby. But when you're a professional alot of legal issues come into play. If I would copy your puppets for instance and present them as my own you would probably be really ****** and you'd wish you could undertake legal actions. Escpeically if I become wealthy with it while you don't make a dime.

I understand completely that some people don't want to share their secrets. But as Buck said some things are not even secrets at all. They are public knowledge. Everyone who for instance refuses to tell other people where to buy antron fleece is a fruitcake in my opinion. They are obviously not professionals then or else they would've easily been able to distinguish a trade secret from public knowledge.

On related note: I notice alot of puppet builders are not exactly happy people. I'm guessing this has to do with the stress of trying to build up a business.