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Respectful Politics Thread (Let's Just See)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jvcarroll, Apr 13, 2018.

  1. LittleJerry92

    LittleJerry92 Well-Known Member

    This is the issue with the left.

    Many of them see people of color as these damsels in distress who can’t defend themselves and feel the need to speak up for them.
  2. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    Except they are; just look at the comments:

    Maybe you need to quit turning a blind eye and pretending that such crap doesn't exist.
  3. MWoO

    MWoO Well-Known Member

    Wait, wait, wait... are you telling me that a YouTube video has negative comments on it??? Well now I have seen everything....

    I guess you and I have different definitions of what a protest actually is. 13 comments on a YouTube video, a handful of which are stupid trolls and likely teenagers being idiots. Not really a protest.... See, I think of a protest as a organized rally of a large number of people, perhaps organized under the banner of a special interest group, that actively opposes something. Also... I didn't see any comments about Trump mixed in there so I guess we are just running with the idea that a racist comment must be posted by someone ho is pro Trump. But at least you aren't assigning motive to people without cause... oh wait....

    You know what is funny... and I swear I am not making this up... I saw this commercial and didn't even think about the fact this was an inter racial couple. All I saw was a couple until you pointed it out. I dont mean that in a pompous "I don't see color way", just that it didn't even cross my mind to separate this couple from others in commercials.

    I don't turn a blind eye to the fact there are bad people in the world. I just don't think it's such a massive amount. I guess you wont rest until the entire world population is nothing but good and intelligent people. Gonna be a long wait, considering how many people are born each day.
  4. LittleJerry92

    LittleJerry92 Well-Known Member

    A fair reminder that this is a daily thing with the left.

  5. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    I think from their standpoint, it's not that she's "too radical," but rather she's too young and inexperienced (but hey, so was Obama when he was first elected).

    But they forgot one: they also selected a Holocaust denier.
  6. MWoO

    MWoO Well-Known Member

    1. the wrong doings of some do not undo the wrong dings of others. Cortez is a radical socialist regardless of the actions of republicans.

    2. She has zero experience with law. She was a bartender and allegedly has a degree in economics, though she seems to have no idea how basic economics works based on many statements she has made.

    3. Obama was not nearly as inexperienced as she is. He and his wife are lawyers. He was a senator. Regardless, the experience, or lack there of, of one person has nothing to do with the experience, of lack there of, of another. .

    4. No one "wants" people to be poor and sick. However, she believes that health care is a human right. It is not. It is a commodity. It takes time, money, effort, and investment to make medical advancements. A right is not a thing you are owed, it is a thing no one can take from you.

    But please, keep posting your memes.
    muppet maniac and Buff Beaker like this.
  7. MuppetsRule

    MuppetsRule Well-Known Member

    Spot on.

    Most of the Democratic candidates are extreme left. It's like they have their own little version of the right's tea party.

    The one Dem candidate that has me excited is Senator Amy Klochubar of Minnesota. She seems to be a fairly moderate politician that I'll be keeping an eye on. Unfortunately she probably has little chance as both parties seem to cater to their extreme bases but I think we need more people like her in office. If she could make it out of the Democratic primaries I think she'd have a very real shot as I think the American public is screaming for a moderate.
    Buff Beaker likes this.
  8. MuppetsRule

    MuppetsRule Well-Known Member

    OMG all one has to do is listen to AOC speak and they'd rrealize she is no way qualified to be president, let alone a senator. Her vs. Trump would be scary stupid. President Obama was very inexperienced but was probably one of the most intellectual presidents we have ever had. Not sure how you can even put her and President Obama in the same conversation.

    This is what happens when today's voters rely on 3 sentence memes to get their information rather than taking the time to do some reading or research.
    muppet maniac and Buff Beaker like this.
  9. MWoO

    MWoO Well-Known Member

    Just to clarify, this is why health care is not a right. Strap in kids, this is going to be a long one.

    First, let's look at the definition of a right, in this case used as a noun in the legal sense of the word:


    "1: qualities (such as adherence to duty or obedience to lawful authority) that together constitute the ideal of moral propriety or merit moral approval

    2: something to which one has a just claim: such as
    a: the power or privilege to which one is justly entitled
    "voting rights"
    "his right to decide"

    b(1): the interest that one has in a piece of property—often used in plural
    "mineral rights"
    (2)rights plural : the property interest possessed under law or custom and agreement in an intangible thing especially of a literary and artistic nature
    "film rights of the novel"

    3: something that one may properly claim as due
    "knowing the truth is her right""

    So, basically a right is something you are due. An inalienable right is something no one can take away, including the government, other people, even God. The very definition of inalienable is that nothing can take it from you and you can not give it away. An inalienable right is also what we are dealing with, as these are rights that people are arguably born with and these are the rights listed in the bill of rights.

    Before getting to the constitution, let's take a brief layover in the Declaration of Independence. In this document, the one that got this whole thing started, Jefferson wrote that people have 3 basic inalienable rights: life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. So, as people we automatically have the right not to be deprived of life (i.e. not murdered). We have the right to do what we want, with the understanding that we can not do something that tries to deny others their inalienable rights. We have the right to the pursuit of happiness. Note that word "pursuit". We do not have the right to happiness, but we have the right to try and obtain happiness and, again, do what we want. These 3 things are what the the Bill of Rights would later be based on.

    It should be noted, that the Bill of Rights is NOT a list of rights that the government gives to the people, it is a list of inalienable rights that the people already have and the government can not make laws against. It does not mean that people do not have more rights than those listed, but they certainly do not have less.

    Let's look at some of the right listed in the bill of right and how they relate to the three inalienable rights.

    Number 1! The right to free speech. This hearkens back to the right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness. We all have the right to speak as we please and do what we want. My speech can not, however, cause others to lose their life: i.e. I can not make a call to action that calls for the death of someone else. I can not make speech that actively calls for the taking away of someone's freedom, as in kidnapping them.

    Number 2! The right to bear arms. This is easy. It has to do with ones right to life and the preservation of it. I have the right to own a gun and protect myself, not only against others who would take my life, but against those that would try to take my rights a well.

    Number 5! Right to due process of law, freedom from self incrimination, and double jeopardy! Again, right to pursuit of happiness and liberty. You have to right not to live in fear that the government will try you for the same crime over and over until they convict. You also have the right to not act against your own interest by incriminating yourself.

    Number 9! People have other rights not listed! This is a big one, as it does state that the Bill of Rights is not the end all be all. It is simply a 10 ten list.

    Number 10! Powers reserved for the states! This was less of a right, and more so a guide that says the states have the right to self govern anything not specifically given to the federal government. Many people seem to forget that we are a government made up of 50 smaller governments. For those that have worked retail, the federal government is like the store manager. The states are like the department managers. The store manager sets their own rules and standards that go for all departments, but the department managers have the autonomy to run their areas as they see fit and can exceed the basic standards, but can not be short of them or make rules that contradict the store manager. If you do not like one department, you can transfer to another, but the basics will be the same. This all comes down to a right to pursuit of happiness. Not happy in New York. Try Alaska!

    So, we see that rights almost always go back to at least one of the 3 inalienable rights. So... why is health care not a right?

    Well, look at the rights listed. All of them state you are due the ability to do something or not be forced to do something. None of them guarantee you getting something though. A right to speech does not guarantee you the right to post articles in someone's news paper. You can start your own news paper, but an existing one can not be forced to publish your stuff if they do not want to. You have a right to speech, but not a right to someone else's stuff. I.E., you can not infringe on someone else's rights to enact your own.

    Health Care is generated by the work and effort of others. You have the right to life, but not the right to the fruits of someone else's labor. Companies have invested time and money into developing new technologies and medicine. They did so with the understanding that they could make money back from their efforts. We the people, do not have the right to their efforts. We do have the right to choose what steps we take in our own health care though. We have the right to go to whatever doctor we want, as long as we agree to their terms (ie.e pay them). We have the right to take any medicine we want, or not take it. We do not have the right to steal it or forced them to give it to us.

    This is why I have an issue with AOC. She seems to think people have the right to basic income without working, basic housing without payment, and basic health care without payment. No... those things are not rights. No one is due these things just by being born. If she just said she wanted to provide these things because she felt the government had a duty to do so I would at least respect her opinion, though still disagree with it. But no, she says these are rights. People have a right to the labor of others. So, that mean at some point the argument can be made that others have the right to my labor or work when they don't.

    Sorry I couldn't condense this into a meme....let's try this

    Buff Beaker likes this.
  10. Old Thunder

    Old Thunder Well-Known Member

  11. fuzzygobo

    fuzzygobo Well-Known Member

    Like everybody else, I don't want people to be sick or poor either.
    I would like everybody to have healthcare (affordable, not free) but there's the nagging question, how can we pay for this?
    I would love a new Lamborghini, but if I can't afford it I'll have to do without. But I don't have a right to a new car, and Lamborghini doesn't owe me one.

    I'm also a little confused where AOC stands. She wants to champion getting jobs for the downtrodden, but was so.happy when the Amazon deal in New York fell through. To her, Jeff Besos was a slime ball capitalist. But to the people in Long Island City, it meant 25,000 new jobs. No skin off her nose.
    Buff Beaker likes this.
  12. MWoO

    MWoO Well-Known Member

    The Amazon thing really confused me. She claimed that it was wrong that Amazon was being given tax breaks and that that money should have been spent on programs to help people... except we were not GIVING Amazon actual money, they were just GIVING US a little less.

    She basically cut off her nose to spite her face. Amazon would have paid billions in tax revenue. So because she wanted them to pay a little more, she lost the city billions and 25,000 jobs. Seems like a bad strat. It's like if a friend has a pizza and offers you a slice, but you say you won't take anything less than half and so they tell you to go screw and leave along with all their pizza.
    Buff Beaker likes this.
  13. fuzzygobo

    fuzzygobo Well-Known Member

    Governor Cuomo and Mayor DeBlazzio said pretty much the same thing. Amazon picked up their marbles and left. Now the two are begging Amazon to come back.

    Gentlemen, this is what the Mob calls a botched job. Heaven help you fools.
    Buff Beaker likes this.
  14. Buff Beaker

    Buff Beaker Well-Known Member

    Because Cortez is a moron. She does not belong in congress. I'm from NY by the way a majority of the state despise her and Governor Cuomo.
    muppet maniac likes this.
  15. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    So, this, evidently, is actual conservative logic (based on an actual conversation I had): the real reason why big businesses and the wealthy are presently thriving from Trump's tax breaks, while working class schmucks are struggling due to less work and smaller paychecks is because the working class is just really, really ignorant.

    Yeah, makes sense. I mean, it really is ignorant that many working class folk are working 3-5 jobs at the same time to make ends meet, while the white collar workers and such are getting off easy thanks to Trump's tax breaks.

    On an unrelated note: gas prices shot up twenty cents in the last couple of weeks!
  16. MWoO

    MWoO Well-Known Member

    So.... Just fyi, the percentage of people who work more than one job is lower than in years past. In 2010 it was 5%, though higher in years past, currently it is 4.9%. So.... you may personally work multiple jobs or know someone who does, but actually less people do now than before.
  17. MuppetsRule

    MuppetsRule Well-Known Member

    There you go again with like, actual facts
  18. MWoO

    MWoO Well-Known Member

    I know, I'm just awful.

    It seems so odd that some people can state verifiably false statements like its nothing when literally anything factual can be looked up in an instant. There are many reasons to not like Trump. There is no reason to make stuff up.
  19. MuppetsRule

    MuppetsRule Well-Known Member

    Yeah, that's what I don't get. There really are a million reasons to despise President Trump. A million FACTUAL reasons. Why does one have to resort to making up stuff? Although, to be fair to D'Snowth, I do believe his beliefs are based on real-life anecdotal evidence. But anecdotal evidence can not be applied to the whole and stated as fact. I don't know how many times you or I have refuted what he has stated as fact based on his experience as not being the case at all. One has to remember to take off the lenses of political bias through which they are viewing things.
  20. fuzzygobo

    fuzzygobo Well-Known Member

    Up here in the Northeast, gas prices have been dropping steadily since November, due to massive production of gasoline. For the first time in 70 years
    ( that's even older than me!) supply outstripped demand, and we are not dependent on Middle East countries for petroleum. I never thought I'd see that in my lifetime.
    Gas prices always rise and fall, most notably spiking around Memorial Day. Warmer weather, demand drives prices up. Economics 101. It's not like the CEO of Exxon/Mobil is wringing his hands going "Hahaha! I got that Snowthy now!! Wheeeeeeeee!!!!!"

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