Respectful Politics Thread (Let's Just See)

jvcarroll

jvcarroll

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MuppetsRule said:
Saw this interesting tweet yesterday and thought it would be of interest here (probably not to those that push forward the narrative that the police have declared open season on unarmed black men).

So far in 2018 there have been 22 "unarmed" people killed by police, many of which had physical altercations with officers. Of the 22, 12 were white, 8 black, 1 hispanic. The data holds for previous years as well, with 2017 having 68 deaths, 30 of which were white, 20 black, 13 hispanic. This isn't data compiled by a pro police group; it's from the Washington Post. While each is undoubtedly a tragedy for their families, they are hardly indicative of an epidemic. But you'd never know it by the disproportionate media coverage some of those deaths receive. Anecdotes aren't facts, but they are magically news when they fit the narrative. Magically not when they don't.
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I must also state that racism isn't merely a partisan issue. It's been made into one. Also, racist cops (and those of all professions) can easily be democrats. You'd be surprised by the number of progressive Texans I've known that, in the 2008 cycle, casually repeated that voting for Barack Obama was okay because he was an "Oreo." Needless to say, I responded with harsh words (as you know I can). I recommend a book I'm reading. The Soul of America by Pulizer Prize winning historian, Jon Meacham. It appropriately starts with the racist environment of the Trump campaign, yet compares it to the racist Dixiecrats (democrats) of years past. He totally stole their playbook!!! It's a powerful book with great perspective. I think you'd like it. I'm finding it to be essential reading as an American.
 
MuppetsRule

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jvcarroll said:
The fact is, considering the percentage of black population in America - they are disproportionately targeted by officers than any other race. Trying to prove otherwise perpetuates the inherent bias that African Americans have faced since their ancestors arrived here in slave ships and were considered 3/5ths of a human. Freedom for them, from equal employment to equal justice under the law, is an ongoing struggle. Another fact that revealed in the last election cycle (something that Trump did not invent, yet continues to harness) is that racism never went away. It just learned to whisper. Racists come in all shapes. One of those is cops and our justice system. Not all cops are bad. Most of them live dangerous, low paid, thankless lives of public service. They also have much control over the lives of others that's been largely unchecked. BLM and other movements are now in the process of exposing that and trying to change it. My feeling is that if you were a person of color, you'd stop tying to prove this point. You'd know the fear of being stopped by a peace officer. And that is what they're supposed to be. Peace officers. That also comes with a heavy price. This VERY MUCH is an epidemic. Not every infraction ends in death either. Many people of color are locked away for the majority of their lives due to systemic racism that weighs harder on them than white people.
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I'm not going to sit here and deny that racism exists or that blacks are more likely to have interactions with the police and therefore more likely to be shot by the police for any number of reasons, including poverty and institutional racism. You have very many valid points, including that the % of black men shot is disproportionately higher than their population. But the % of crime committed by blacks is also disproportionately higher. A higher crime rate is going to lead to a higher interaction rate which will lead to a higher rate of violent confrontations.

When was the last time you saw a story about a positive interaction between a police officer and a black person? Next to never. When was the last time you saw a story about an unarmed white man shot by the police on the news? Even less. The fact remains that the news stories are disproportionately weighted towards an unarmed black man vs. an unarmed white man. Even though the numbers are greater for white men vs. black men, the news stories are WAY higher for coverage of black men being shot. The news coverage is feeding us the narrative of there being an open season on black men by the police. And some here take it as fact and label all police officers as racist pigs. Racist police officers targeting unarmed black men is not an EPIDEMIC. Institutional racism is. Poverty is. But racist cops declaring open season on black men is not, as some here would like you to believe with their hyperbole.
 
jvcarroll

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MuppetsRule said:
I'm not going to sit here and deny that racism exists or that blacks are more likely to have interactions with the police and therefore more likely to be shot by the police for any number of reasons, including poverty and institutional racism. You have very many valid points, including that the % of black men shot is disproportionately higher than their population. But the % of crime committed by blacks is also disproportionately higher. A higher crime rate is going to lead to a higher interaction rate which will lead to a higher rate of violent confrontations.

When was the last time you saw a story about a positive interaction between a police officer and a black person? Next to never. When was the last time you saw a story about an unarmed white man shot by the police on the news? Even less. The fact remains that the news stories are disproportionately weighted towards an unarmed black man vs. an unarmed white man. Even though the numbers are greater for white men vs. black men, the news stories are WAY higher for coverage of black men being shot. The news coverage is feeding us the narrative of there being an open season on black men by the police. And some here take it as fact and label all police officers as racist pigs. Racist police officers targeting unarmed black men is not an EPIDEMIC. Institutional racism is. Poverty is. But racist cops declaring open season on black men is not, as some here would like you to believe with their hyperbole.
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This is a much better conversation, and one we should be having. I've seen plenty of those positive stories about black Americans having good interactions with police officers. The term "declaring open season" is, of course, hyperbole used by certain progressives that I would stay away from. Yuppers, there's proof I said that about progressive people!!! I know you've been waiting for this moment. Also, you're right to bring up poverty. !he rate of crime is high among those living in poverty and many of those held back by prejudice and institutional racism live in poverty. Also, black Americans face higher sentences for the same crimes committed by white people. The fact is, among the average American: an unkempt young black man wearing a hoodie is largely seen as a threat (that's been perpetuated by mainstream conservative media) while an unkempt young white guy wearing a hoodie is largely seen as a college student.
 
jvcarroll

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The truth here is that this isn't new. It's happened under every president. It is, however, shameful.
 
CensoredAlso

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Think this has come up before but in my experience, atheists’ understanding of the Bible is on par with evangelicals. No that is not a compliment. :wink:

And actually (and thankfully), lately there’s been a much needed push back against the so called New Atheism. Pointing out that while Hitchens, Dawkins, and the like were competent scientists, that in no way equipped them to be experts in religion, philosophy, or even just basic human psychology. And again, they bare a striking resemblance to evangelicals in their fervor. A rather inappropriate attitude toward something they claim to not believe in. They don’t so much not believe in God, as they are furious at God the way a disillusioned teenager would be at a parent.

No, this isn’t to pick on atheists. Just to point out we’re not all that different. :smile:
 
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MuppetsRule

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