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Should the Muppets retire?

Discussion in 'Classic Muppets' started by Frogster, Jul 20, 2005.

  1. Frogster

    Frogster Well-Known Member

    In my opinion, yes. They're not what they used to be, and it just seems that they're getting worse as the years go by. Disney's milking them for what little fame they have left. Asking someone about what they think of the Muppets in our world today isn't like asking someone back in the late 70's. Their opinions of them are low, and consider them to be just for elementary viewing. I love the Muppets of the past. Why not just leave it at that?

    Take a look at MWoO. Despite good ratings for ABC, it was a horrible movie, about as good as Kermit's Swamp Years. The only difference is that I was taping it at the time, and I couldn't skip through it. Now, they're talking about Kermit visiting his 50 favorite places, a Kermit Roast, and a reality show. I mean, seriously. And for me personally, it's hard for me to watch the Muppets with my family any more... my dad, especially. He already thinks that I'm a little old to be watching them, and when something embarrassing like MWoO comes on, that just makes him more right... and I hate it when my dad's right.

    So Steve, Eric, and whoever else, stop embarrassing yourselves and just let your arms rest; retire, and sit back and watch the stuff from the good days. Heck, the first season of TMS is coming out next month, and Fraggle Rock's after that. You guys aren't that good, and some of you have ruined the personalities of my favorite characters. If you don't feel like retiring, however, watch- and by that, I mean pay attention- to the characters and format of The Muppet Show when (not if, when) all five seasons are released, if you haven't watched them now. You may be surprised at how good the Muppets really were, compared to how terrible you guys sometimes are.
  2. MWoO

    MWoO Well-Known Member

    do you even realize that Steve is PART of the original muppets? he was on at least 2 season of the Muppet show and was in 2 of the original muppet movies and a number of specials. He IS part of what made the muppets good and he still is part of what makes them good.

    You are basically of the school of thought that says if it is not the original performers, it isn't good. NOTHING will make people like you happy.
  3. That Announcer

    That Announcer Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure if I'd take it that far, but yes. Frogster, that could well be the most hair-brained statement I've heard in a while now. The Muppets have been lying dormant now since MTI, occasionally emitting a sputter or two. They are finally going to be up on their feet (or flippers as the case may be), entertaining the world and doing something, well, Muppetational.

    And what good reason is there for them to give it all up? The performers? Well, if that's the argument you're using, it would have made more sense to do that around MFS. Frank didn't want to be there and Jerry wasn't around as much as he had been previously, and suitable replacements hadn't been Peter, etc.) are charging ahead at full speed, ready to make people smile again.

    Disney is working wonders with the Muppets, thrusting them forth into the spotlight and telling them to start working magic again. Yes, the new productions may not be GMC caliber. Yes, MWoO had its shortcomings. But even if the productions do not 100% match up to Jim's stuff, they come very, very close.

    In short: There is no reason whatsoever for the Muppets to give up. None. They are doing everything that they should be, how they should be doing it. The Muppets are more of a creative force now than they have been in nearly ten years. New movies, DVDs, specials, productions, books, everything! And besides, where would the world be if there wasn't a little green frog there to entertain us?

    PS: If you want my personal opinion, the Brian-directed films were better than three of Jim's films (TMTM, TMM, Dark Crystal) and MWoO surpassed all three of the immediately previous Muppet productions by leaps and bounds. So there.
  4. minor muppetz

    minor muppetz Well-Known Member

    Actually, Steve Whitmire was in the last three seasons of The Muppet Show (or is that the last two and a half, considering that he started halfway through the third season?), and he was in all of the muppet movies, he just didn't have any specific characters in The Muppet Movie.
  5. That Announcer

    That Announcer Well-Known Member

    Yep, he doubled for Frank as Fozzie a few times in that movie. If Piggy's in the car talking, that's Steve "driving" as Fozzie.
  6. MWoO

    MWoO Well-Known Member

    Now that I did not know, but since he didn't actually have a speaking part you cant really count TMM.
  7. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    *coughs* Guys, um, in a different thread right now we are discussing letting people have their own opinions without leapign on them. Lay off a little..

    Moi, I think they should certainly not retire. They (to me)_ are only just coming back to their roots (judging from VMC). I mean, honestly, Frank's Piggy, Animal and Fozzie were worse in MFS than Eric's version in VMC.

    And, Luke, even if I did agree with you in principle, laying the blame on the perforers Frank and Steve is certainly not going to help. It is not the performers fault, it's the writers,producers, directors. It's not like in Jim and Frank's day. The performers don't make the movie no more, they perform in it. So please, try not to say nasty things about Eric and Steve.

    I'd say give the Muppets another chance. This year seems to be shaping up to be good one. Maybe the Muppts can bring their fans back...maybe not...let's wait and see...
  8. BEAR

    BEAR Well-Known Member

    Don't worry folks. We all know that the Muppet are never going to retire or go away as long as their are loyal fans like us that still believe in them. I also think that they have been doing more lately then they have in a long time. Don't let Frogster get to you. If he doesn't believe, so be it. I wouldn't call him a true fan if he is just going to give up. Right, Pepe?

    :rolleyes: I want the Muffens to do a reality show, okay..."A Date With Pepe!"
    Oh, brother..
  9. TogetherAgain

    TogetherAgain Well-Known Member

    Muppets? Retire? No thank you. I understand that not everyone thinks they're quite "up to par" anymore, but personally, I jump for joy when I see anything new Muppety. And I do mean that, I quite literally jump. Actually, I jump, clap, and make this funny little high-pitched squeal... but I digress.

    I still think the Muppets have that special magic about them, and I don't see them losing it any time soon. If anything, I see them getting more.

    Let me put it this way: With Muppets, the glass is not half empty, or half full. The glass is getting dumped over somebody's head.
  10. MrsPepper

    MrsPepper Well-Known Member

    It's funny, how everyone seems to think that the Muppets were perfect and elite at one specific point in time. Of course, since we all love the muppets so much we could easily have those blind spots. But seriously? The Muppet Show wasn't perfect. Neither were all of the movies. There are always areas where they could be improved. So before you guys wish everything was like the good old days, just realise. The Muppets from today aren't any worse, per se, just different.

    Noq, I am going to get a little choosy with my words and say this: Lay off the Muppet performers!! Darnit, they're just doing their jobs with the materiel they're given, and they're doing just great. It's what they do for a living, and I don't think they should be held up against the other performers and criticised, as those were different times, and people in general are all different and in turn perceive characters differently. When it comes down to it, they're paying their bills by doing this stuff. So leave them alone. People get old, people retire, and nothing is ever the same from one project to the other. So suck it up, release some pride, and judge the muppets (and the performers) fairly, on the work they are doing, and not by comparing them to an unfair, elite standard.
  11. minor muppetz

    minor muppetz Well-Known Member

    There was once an interview with Jim henson where he said that as long as the fans want them, the Muppets would be around, and if people got tired of them, he would have retired them. I am not sure if the Jim Henson Company (or Disney) thinks the same way as Jim Henson did, but with fans like us, i don't think the muppets will retire anytime soon.
  12. unclematt

    unclematt Well-Known Member

    Frogster, I know many people have told you how they feel but I just need to get this off my chest. I hope seriously that Steve or Eric or any of the Muppeteers for that matter do not read this thread. I seriously think an apology is due. That was very disrespectful.
  13. BEAR

    BEAR Well-Known Member

    Hear hear!!
  14. balana

    balana Well-Known Member

    When someone creates something as new and innovative as Jim did with the Muppets, it would be hard for anybody to be able to match the level of creativity. The post Jim Henson muppets are indeed different from when he was involved, but that's to be expected. (To be fair, it wasn't just him that brought them all to life, and I'm not sure how much input other people had in their creation, but the Muppets always have been and always will be considered the creation of Jim Henson.)

    I thought MCC and MTI still carried the spirit of the Muppets, but MTI came out in 1996. As has been pointed out, they've done very little worthwhile in the past 10 years or so. I wasn't all that impressed with MWoO myself, but they're definitely headed in the right direction. I think they showed with MCC and MTI that even without Jim, the magic of the Muppets can still be captured. It's mostly just a matter of finding it and tapping into it again.
  15. minor muppetz

    minor muppetz Well-Known Member

    I think that most of the muppets that were created for the jim henson hour are a bit different. They were very cool-looking. It's a shame they weren't used more since then.
  16. ryhoyarbie

    ryhoyarbie Well-Known Member

    Muppets retire?..........I don't know, maybe, maybe not. I didn't enjoy the Muppet wizard of Oz movie and thought it was horrible. I think, given the right writers, the Muppets can make magic again. I liked them in the christmas movie back in 2002 and it seemed like the characters were back to who they were. Then the Oz movie premired and it seemed like the muppets went south again.

    Like I said before, given good writers, the Muppets could be good as gold as they were back in the 70s and 80s.

  17. That Announcer

    That Announcer Well-Known Member

    Well, as I've said before, the Muppets are more active now than they've been in about 15 years (a recalculated figure) and if this keeps up, we're in for a lot of good times.

    PS: You want my personal opinion? With the possible exception of Labyrinth and GMC, The Muppets stank in the '80s and ruled the world in the '70s.
  18. dpurves

    dpurves Well-Known Member

    No way should the Muppets retire. Ever. I haven't necessarily enjoyed all of their recent efforts, and I'm one of those people who longs for "the good old days" which will never come back, but I still want my Muppets.

    Really, as much as we may complain about voices, personalities, scripts, etc., do any of us really want to go the rest of our lives and never see these characters again in anything new? I sure don't.
  19. ryhoyarbie

    ryhoyarbie Well-Known Member

    They're active yes, but that doesn't mean they're that good, at least not yet anyway. The Muppets, the performers, and everybody else who is involved with the Muppets have a very long way to go before the Muppets are back up in par with how they were 20 or 30 years ago. I can look at any episode of the Muppet show and say "that's the Muppets, and that's how they should be." I can look at them now with their current Oz movie and say "they're no where near what they were when they had the Muppet Show."

    Just a matter of opinion. But of course, if we all had the same opinion, life would be boring!

  20. minor muppetz

    minor muppetz Well-Known Member

    Should the Muppets retire? to quote a certain sesame street song, "The Word Is No!" :grouchy:

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