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Something I noticed about Dave Goelz's Characters

Discussion in 'Fraggle Rock' started by LincolnHeights, Mar 31, 2007.

  1. LincolnHeights

    LincolnHeights New Member

    I have noticed that on Fraggle Rock, Dave Goelz's charachters were seldomly seen at the same time. Now I know that it's hard for charachters to appear in the same take when they have the same performer. But a lot of times with other charachters they will appear in the same scene, even if one of them remains silent while the other talks. But I can think of a few times when one of Dave's charachters was mysteriously written out, when another one of them played a major role. For example, in the episode Uncle Matt Comes Home, that I recently saw on Youtube, Boober is seen at the beggining of the show when everyone is getting ready for Uncle Matt to come home. Boober even mentions that he's looking forward to seeing him again. But ironically, Boober never did get to see him. Boober mysteriously dissapeared with no explination shortly before Uncle Matt arrived, and wasn't seen again for the rest of the episode. Boober also dissapeared from the scene early on the second time Uncle Matt came to visit (and decided to move back to Fraggle Rock) in the episode titled "Uncle Matt's Discovery" Another example is in Capture the Moon, when The World's Oldest Fraggle was seen quite a bit during the episode, and Boober did not appear at all.
    Also in "River of Life" Uncle Matt was there at the begginiing, when he had the idea of hauling water in Buckets from Water Wheel cavern, to the Fraggle Pond. Uncle Matt seemed to dissapear as soon as Boober got involved heavily in the storyline. In Doozer is as Doozer does which focused primarily on Wrench Doozer, another Goelz charachter, the Fraggles are only seen briefly, but it's only Gobo, Wembley, Red, and Mokey. One more example I can think of right off hand is Gunge the Great and Glorious, when Wrench Doozer was never seen when Phillo was on.

    Now with all this info in mind. I notice a trend with Dave's charachters. Do you think that Dave didn't like other people performing his charachters or something like that? Because just about every other performer on FR had their charachters together more often than Dave's were. Please let me know your thoughts on this. :concern::cool::confused:
    GopherCoffee likes this.
  2. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Actually yeah I had noticed that too, another one is "Capture the Moon." I guess it could have been a preference on his part. Also it was different with some of the other characters, like you HAD to have Gobo and the Trashheap in the same scenes, there was no way of getting around it.
    GopherCoffee likes this.
  3. LincolnHeights

    LincolnHeights New Member

    I know what you mean. They could have avoided having Gobo go to the Trasheap altogether. But that would have ruined a lot of awsome storylines. Also I saw Wembley and Flange together on the episode "Doozer Contest" he was the judge of the contest Flange and Modem were having. Gobo and Pa Gorg a few times. I thought it was hilarous in Wembley and the Gorgs when Gobo stabs Pa in the nose with his sword. :smirk:
    GopherCoffee likes this.
  4. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Yeah it's amazing what they did with the Fraggles and the Gorgs. Most of the time they didn't filmed their scenes together. The Fraggles performed their scenes separately against a blue screen. But you don't even think about it while you're watching the show.

    Yeah I also find it hilariously ironic whenever Gobo and Pa Gorg have an altercation. lol
    GopherCoffee likes this.
  5. LincolnHeights

    LincolnHeights New Member

    This may be a tad off topic. But did you notice how in the episode "Gone but not Forgotten" Gobo has The World's Oldest Fraggle have a talk with Wembley after his friend Mudwell dies? That seemed like the type of situation for the Trashheap and not the World's Oldest Fraggle. I dno. It just seemed rather out of place to me.
    GopherCoffee likes this.
  6. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    I haven't seen that one yet, though I really want to. I know roughly what it's about, but what happens in the scene?
    GopherCoffee likes this.
  7. LincolnHeights

    LincolnHeights New Member

    Well I remember Gobo drags the World's Oldest Fraggle out to where Wembley is moping. He actually has him in his arms and he's carrying him. And he drops him on the ground, and says "Allright, if ANYONE can make Wembley feel better it's YOU" But I remember the World's Oldest Fraggle, didn't really help matters much, and he just rambled on a little bit, and sort of went off topic. I think it would have been much better if they went to see the Trasheap for advice in that one. Like they normally did at times like that. I don't know though, Mabye the set with the Trasheap wasn't available at the time. So they had to fill in the gap with the World's Oldest Fraggle. Food for thought.
    GopherCoffee likes this.
  8. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Hmm yeah good point. I guess they might have wanted some humor in the episode since it's a rather sad one overall. Plus, ugh this sounds terrible, Gobo probably figured The World's Oldest knew a lot about death.

    However, in retrospect the Trashheap would probably have been the better choice. She's sort of other worldly and doesn't need to worry about death as much, she likely knows it's not the end. But on the other hand, it's good for Wembley that he discovered it on his own.
    GopherCoffee likes this.
  9. LincolnHeights

    LincolnHeights New Member

    You know, I just watched Manny's Land of Carpets on Youtube. And I noticed another time Dave Goelz avoided having his charachters together. Both Boober and Large Marvin were seen in that episode quite a bit, but they were always in opposite sides, so you never got to see both of them on camera. I wonder if Dave Goelz was possesive over his charachters? LOL
    GopherCoffee likes this.
  10. Ilikemuppets

    Ilikemuppets New Member

    I've noticed this a few time myself, too! that's a good question and I wonder why? But in the "Fraggle Wars" episode The Worlds Oldest Fraggle and boober are seen in the same seen and both have speech in it, too.
    GopherCoffee likes this.
  11. LincolnHeights

    LincolnHeights New Member

    I remember that one, and your'e right! I guess there were exceptions to the rule. I think in the entire run of Fraggle Rock, Iv'e only seen Boober and Uncle Matt together twice. Briefly in "Uncle Matt's Discovery" Boober was only in the very beggining of that one, I remember he made Uncle Matt a cake, that was starting to turn moldy. And I remember seeing the 2 of them onscreen together a few times in "Space Frog Follies". Also, hear's another strange but True fact about Dave's charachters. Do you remember in Boober and the Glob, how Wrench Doozer was on of the doozer's who was swallowed by the Glob, but he didn't say one word during that entire episode. Most likely due to Boober's major role in that one. Who else can think of some more times when Dave's charachters were seen onscreen together on FR?
    GopherCoffee likes this.
  12. G-MAN

    G-MAN Active Member

    In Inspector Red both Uncle Matt and Boober were suspects in the kidnapping of the Fraggle Horn and the two of them plus The World's Oldest Fraggle were together on screen when Red revealed the truth
    GopherCoffee likes this.
  13. That has nothing to do with a Muppeteer's "preference" over characters appearing on screen---it is all up to the writers as to who appears in a scene.
  14. JJandJanice

    JJandJanice Well-Known Member

    You know after reading this thread the only time ever I can think of Goelz's characters actually talking to one another is from "Muppets From Space" with Bunsen Honeydew and Gonzo. There probably is more times though, just nothing off the top off my head.
  15. SillyRed

    SillyRed Member

    That's Weird.
  16. Collgoff

    Collgoff Well-Known Member

    Something I notice about Dave Gloez's Charatchters

    There is on thing I want to know!;)
    How come Boober and Traveling Matt never speak to eatch other?:confused:
    I mean Gobo has talk to Uncle and Boober, so dose Red, Mokey,and Wembley they have speak to them too.:coy:
  17. Slackbot

    Slackbot Well-Known Member

    I think it's simply a logistical issue. You can't operate two characters, one on each hand, if you want them to be doing anything more complex than singing in the background, and when you look at such scenes it's easy to pick out which characters are being operated by the same puppeteer. If you have two characters by the same puppeteer in the same scene, then the puppeteer has to provide both voices while another person operates one of the two. I watch for this, and it's usually very obvious which character is operated by the "ghost puppeteer." His lip-synch will be imperfect and the general body language will be off.

    The one big exception to this is Sidebottom, and they got around this in most scenes by filming one character alone, then green-screening the other in. That was just Goelz by himself. Can you imagine how hugely complicated that would be if you had to choreograph a scene like that with multiple puppeteers? Better just to avoid that nightmare by avoiding having characters with the same puppeteer together too often.
    GopherCoffee likes this.
  18. Collgoff

    Collgoff Well-Known Member

    Something I notices about Dave Golze's Charachters

    Okay I understand what you told me!

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