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Steve Whitmire has left the Muppets, Matt Vogel to continue as Kermit

Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by GonzoMan, Jul 10, 2017.

  1. xSunnyEclipse

    xSunnyEclipse Well-Known Member

    Okay I'm sorry, here's where all my useless knowledge comes into play.

    As my two favorite characters, I've pretty much studied and researched their relationship through the years and here's what I gathered:

    The Muppet Show:

    Season 1 - 3: Kermit didn't care/accepted Piggy's feelings for him.
    Season 4 - 5: Kermit started caring about Piggy and even got jealous when she was drooling over Christopher Reeve.

    The Muppet Movies:

    They seem to focus more on the romance between the two than Kermit just ignoring Piggy. Throughout the movies, Kermit will start showing interest towards Piggy. But in my opinion, the 2011 movie and Muppets Most Wanted finally showed him developing feelings for Piggy and into the 2015 show with him being in love with Piggy. It's that kind of character development that I look for.

    And in interviews for Muppets Most Wanted and the 2011 movie, Kermit started accepting and knowledging they were a couple.

    Honestly to me, breaking them up was a great idea for the TV Show because they could show more character development and spice things up. Still having them broken up now and doing a 180 with bickering and stuff is like..all that character development was flushed down the drain.

    I can completely understand why people didn't care about their relationship, but being my favorites I did and still do XD Would I want them getting back together now? No not really, especially since Matt just became Kermit. I want him to work on character relationships and chemistry with all of The Muppets first.

    And I don't know why I don't think Piggy is better or funnier being single. The Hollywood Bowl interviews show that she's just mean to Kermit, rather than trying to be friends with him. I'd rather them have good chemistry and friendship than making fun of each other.
    MikaelaMuppet likes this.
  2. Pig's Laundry

    Pig's Laundry Well-Known Member

    I definitely agree that them being so hostile towards each other is very out of character and should definitely be fixed. It's not particularly funny or comfortable to watch. But I think that has a lot to do with how inconsistent Miss Piggy has been for a while. All the movies (aside from maybe Muppets From Space) and The Muppet Show they really did feel like a team. And, I think MFS was kind of the beginning of the problem, and that could be because Frank Oz wasn't able to be on set for most of the filming and make creative decisions. Some days Miss Piggy can be fine, while other days she's a complete narcissistic nightmare. I mean, she was always a narcissist, but it's pretty much taken up her whole character in the last decade and a half.
  3. ErinAardvark

    ErinAardvark Well-Known Member

    I still think it has to do with the writing in that regard.
    MikaelaMuppet and xSunnyEclipse like this.
  4. jobi71

    jobi71 Well-Known Member

    Well, then you have never met me. Oh wait I am actually wrong about 76% of the time. Wait that was also wrong it is actually 88% of the time. In conclusion do not take stock market tips from me.
  5. jobi71

    jobi71 Well-Known Member

    I am guessing Miss Piggy is the toughest of the Muppets to write for. It's the right blend of diva/insecurity that needs to be traversed. I may be paraphrasing or mis-remembering but Frank Oz at one point said she was not a very good singer or actress etc. When I watched the season 2 DVD with Milton Berle as a guest it was the first time I saw her version of The Entertainer. She sang. She danced. She took over the piano from Rowlf. She put her heart and soul in that number. She, like Kermit, has a need - not a desire - to entertain. That's why, I think, they are an interesting couple. They have quite different personalities, but they have the same goal. Again I may be paraphrasing but Dave Goelz speaking about Beauregard said he had trouble getting a hook on the character because he didn't have a strong want. Rowlf, one of the older Muppets was one of the few who had confidence in his performance. Kermit was apologetic, Piggy was insecure, Fozzie wanted to be liked more than laughter, Scooter was star struck, Gonzo was out to shake up the art world, Statler and Waldorf were two old codgers who had a deep history and clear love of theater (why would they always come there - and don't say I guess we'll never know), The Electric Mayhem may have some "outside" influence, but they were a good band who just could not get their act together, The Sweedish Chef - oblivious, Bunsen and Beaker? - a romance yet to be discovered, Sam the Eagle? - an eternal optimist who is thwarted at all his cultural ideas. Walter, Bean and Robin? Naive youngins who believe in the dream. Rizzo? - tough guy with a big heart. Luncheon Counter Monster? - a monster who liked to eat items - edible or not - at a lunch counter. So, in short - TOO LATE - the other characters have a more defined arc. They can, as many long running shows do, move back and forth on that arc without ending it. Piggy, Kermit and Gonzo I think are tough to keep on track.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
    MikaelaMuppet and xSunnyEclipse like this.
  6. Censored

    Censored Well-Known Member

    I think there is some remembering of Kermit's and Miss Piggy's relationship through rose colored glasses. The conflict was always there. Miss Piggy is a complex character with a wide range of moods. Sure, they had tender moments, but she also karate chopped him many times.
    MikaelaMuppet and xSunnyEclipse like this.
  7. Censored

    Censored Well-Known Member

    Here is the classic stuff that made them funny:
    MikaelaMuppet and xSunnyEclipse like this.
  8. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    Kermit and Piggy have pretty much always been one of those "will they or won't they" couples, and I think those tend to be the best couples in fiction, because when you lack the commitment from one or both of the parties, then that's where the conflict lies, and conflict is what makes the material interesting. If the couples do, in fact, end up getting together . . . well, here, I think this particular strip from my favorite webcomic sums it up well:

  9. LittleJerry92

    LittleJerry92 Well-Known Member

    I think Kermit and Piggy's relationship was meant to be a joke. Disney took advantage of the storyline for it though.
    MikaelaMuppet and xSunnyEclipse like this.
  10. Censored

    Censored Well-Known Member

    No, the pre-Disney Muppet movies added some depth to their relationship too. But, that's ok. A movie has to have a little more to it. That doesn't mean the relationship can't be a joke in other settings. The good thing about fictional characters is that you can modify them as needed for plot devices and they're not locked into rigid continuity. To do otherwise is creatively stifling.
  11. Censored

    Censored Well-Known Member

    We also shouldn't forget that the main idea behind the Muppets was to make us laugh and keep us entertained. It's supposed to be fun.
    LittleJerry92 and MikaelaMuppet like this.
  12. xSunnyEclipse

    xSunnyEclipse Well-Known Member

    I think that's what made me so interested in their dynamic...because they were a fun and realistic couple at the same time. I liked both sides of the relationship..the non-serious and the serious.

    And what someone said before, they basically had the same desire and goals, and that's something that keeps them connected. Piggy always seems to come back and stay either for Kermit or won't admit she's staying for him.

    They obviously still care about each other, but I feel like wasting all that great character development from the 2015 show and not have them working out their relationship is a cop-out to me.

    At Morning with the Muppets when Kermit confirmed that the breakup was the same as it was before the 2015 show, it made me scratch my head. I really wanted an explanation as to what happened and why they stayed broken up. I mean, I guess now it's okay to keep them apart since there's no new show or movie.

    But being a huge fan of both of them, it makes me frustrated when the writing messes them up sometimes...especially on Piggy's part. I don't know what her deal was in the Hollywood Bowl interviews. That could just me being really picky, but that's what I get for being so passionate about a frog and pig lol.
    MikaelaMuppet likes this.
  13. monkeyjb1988

    monkeyjb1988 Active Member

    Yeah. They do good, but Jim Henson had a better replacement than Mel Blanc.

    Both good points. I don't care either way if Miss Piggy and Kermit get back together, but at least let them be civil to each other.
    MikaelaMuppet likes this.
  14. Censored

    Censored Well-Known Member

    I guess I used to watch a different Muppet Show where Kermit used to insult Miss Piggy and she karate chopped him all the time.
    Randall Flagg and MikaelaMuppet like this.
  15. Daffyfan4ever

    Daffyfan4ever Well-Known Member

    Yeah. It would be good to know what happened on the plane trip to Thailand, but again the real life Muppets are never consistent with shows/movies, so while the break-up may have been real whatever happened on the show or what would have happened had the show run longer might have been a different story. You never know.

    Yeah. I see what you mean. At least on the 2015 show they stayed friends, but the way Piggy has been acting in the live interviews it really seems like she's unhappy about doing the interviews with him. Plus the Piggy we all know wouldn't have insulted his eyes and his collar like she did there. :(
    xSunnyEclipse likes this.
  16. Whataday

    Whataday Well-Known Member

    Does anyone else think Matt's Kermit so far sounds like Richard Hunt doing an impression of Jim's Kermit? I keep hearing traces of Scooter. He could do with sounding a bit more rubbery but so far I think he's done pretty well. He's certainly been thrown in at the deep end doing a huge live concert.
  17. Randall Flagg

    Randall Flagg Well-Known Member

    Yeah, I used to watch that one, too. That's what made it entertaining-- Kermit's dismissive/insulting attitude towards Piggy, followed by Piggy hitting him so hard he went flying across the stage. Civility among puppets isn't really entertaining.
    Censored likes this.
  18. LittleJerry92

    LittleJerry92 Well-Known Member

    To an extent, I can hear it a little.
  19. Censored

    Censored Well-Known Member

    I thought the Muppets were supposed to have an edge to them.
  20. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    But not to the point that it would be too inappropriate or off-color for family audiences.
    scooterfan360 likes this.

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