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Talk about nitpicky!

Discussion in 'Classic Muppets' started by Drtooth, Oct 26, 2011.

  1. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Really... you know how we have people complaining about Kermit living in a mansion and Fozzie's Fart Shoes?

    Well, seems Latin America has us all beat in the game of supreme silliness...

    In an effort to rebrand the Muppets with an international consistency, Mexican Kermit the Frog changes his name from La Rana Rene to Kermit La Rene...

    And people are just as "OH COME ON!" ticked off about it as immature teenage anime fans.

    If this wasn't a pet peeve of mine, I'd end the thread right here... but after years of seeing childish complaints by kids spoiled enough to see the uncut stuff, complaints about name changes drive me up the wall. To me, this is no different as people complaining that Zoro from One Piece got the name change "Zolo," even though that was a move to protect themselves from a litigious company that owns the copyright of the character that's one "R" away from that spelling. Not to mention Japanese R/L confusion. Seriously... how would they have lived with Battle of the Planets, where Jinpei Keyop spoke like Klunk from Dasdardly and Muttley and had a comic relief robot that wasn't there?
    Duke Remington likes this.
  2. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Well I mean, how would we feel if they changed a character name we grew up with, just to supposedly "fix" an "inconsistency?"
  3. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Like how Princess Toadstool is called "Peach?"

    Well, like a mature rational adult, I'd say... "Huh?" say, these things happen, and not be bothered by it. Every video game company retconned their characters to have their original Japanese names in the past 10 or so years, and no one really flinched. Sure, I never liked the name Peach, but by that same tone, I never cared for the American localized name "Bowser" for King Koopa. Robotnik is Robotnik if he's American cartoon illustrations like AOSTH and SATAM, but it's Eggman if he has his Sonic Adventure and beyond look for me. Plus, in the cases of these characters, the localization and original name have mixed beautifully... Princess Peach Toadstool, King Bowser Koopa, Robotnik being Eggman's real name and Eggman being the nickname... Name changes and localization ALWAYS tends to flip flop. Especially if an anime is dubbed by another company... They had to change Lupin III to Edgar in France due to Maurice LaBlanc's estate... well... sucking and not having a sense of humor.

    That said, if Mexico had its OWN version of Kermit (like the US had cartoons based on the video games or Italian Disney comics have special versions of Donald Duck) then I'd sorta see a problem... but I've never been big on localization name changes. That's STILL a change.
    Duke Remington likes this.
  4. dwmckim

    dwmckim Well-Known Member

    Even MORE controversial than the name change is K & P going down at the end of the video.
  5. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    I do get what you're saying and there are times when it's nice to have a character's name changed back to what it should be, regarding its origins.

    I just don't love companies taking it upon themselves to change something about a character just because they've decided it makes more sense. It reminds me too much of George Lucas' heavy handedness. ;)
  6. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    How is that different from companies in other countries taking it upon themselves to change something about the character's name to give it the illusion that they created it? :crazy:

    There's something to be said about brand conformity and uniformity going against some country changing the name of something and claiming it as their own. This is no different than an anime or TV series in general getting a new dub or switching dub companies.

    I'd like to point out the famous and completely incorrect internet Meme based on the Dragonball quote "IT'S OVER 9000!!!" For years, the US and Canada have dubbed that scene so that 9000 fits in the mouth flaps. However, the REAL line is "It's over 8,000." Which, while that does sound nitpicky, it cauyses some factual error that I completely forgot the details of... something about if it really was over 9000, he could have beaten Vegeta easier... I forget... someone pointed that out somewhere... but as this video will show, The US and Canadian dubs are the ONLY ones to screw up that line

    Then came DB Kai, and a more accurate to the Japanese script American Dub. Though, to keep the internet meme's fame, they compromised... the television broadcast said the 9000 line, while the DVD's used the right one.

    It's just the perils of dubbing. Name changes, localization, screwing up lines... other than Samurai Pizza Cats, I'm not a fan of that.
  7. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Well if it was done at the beginning that would be fine. But I guess it's the interfereing with people's nostalgia and memories that rubs me the wrong way.

    But ultimately I guess it depends on the situation and your own preferences. :)
  8. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I've stopped caring about OTHER people's nostalgia when it became evident that when they slightly change something about a franchise they flip the heck out, but they cheer when they see Optimus Prime sniffing coke in a terrible internet cartoon. "Don't you dare change someone's voice because they died or retired, but isn't that internet fanart He-man slash porn AMAZING?!"

    Plus, I also noticed that half the time the stuff they don't want altered ARE alterations. Batman TAS diehards refuse to give any OTHER animated form of Batman the time of day, and that was his third or fourth appearance in a cartoon show (if you count Filmation's 1960's and 70's shows separate... and Superfriends is added to the equation)... We remember Porky Pig being voiced by Mel Blanc, yet we don't remember the voice originated from Joe Dougherty (who HAD the stutter for realz). The Turtles NEVER said Cowabunga in the comics (though, I'd like to point out that fans of the original comic kept calling Eastman and Laird sell outs BECAUSE of the cartoon series). Most Muppet fans grew up with Sesame Street, the Show and the movies, and it took tribute documentaries and the internet age to see Sam and Friends and the commercials.

    I really wouldn't put changing a name back to the true name for brand conformity in the same league of George Lucas screwing his movies up because HE thinks they look better that way. It's not even changing the characters to something else one way or another. That I'd understand. I understand people like sarcastic Rob Paulsen Raphael, even though that was the only time the character was like that (confused the heck out of me when I first saw the movie)... but Kermit's still Kermit if his name is Kermit or Tonto el Sapo or Cheezewazzle MacGoo the Frimfram.

    I would also like to point out, It's only about 4 countries that even changed his name and according to that list, certain dubs called him Kermit anyway to begin with. On the other hand I don't see SW getting pressured by Disney to have Plaza Sesamo redub every Kermit skit to keep consistent.
    Duke Remington likes this.
  9. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    In my experience it usually isn't a slight change, lol. ;)
  10. Frogpuppeteer

    Frogpuppeteer Well-Known Member

    gotta agree with DRTOOTH on this one..ive grown to not really feel bad for people who complain about nostalgia being ruined, most of the time because that very nostalgia is made up of made up memories from whatever show or game people fondly love details here or there that didnt really happen but they swear to death happened.

    now as for Kermits name change i dont mind it, what some people many not know is that Kermit has been know as La Rana Rene and Kermit, in Puerto Rico sometimes referred as both withen the same sesame street episode...in one Movie he is Kermit in another its Rene, so its very confusing..i grew up mostly here so to me he has always been Kermit. if kermit's name was always rene then fine i could see the issue at hand but there is nothing wrong with him officially being Kermit in all languages.
    Duke Remington likes this.
  11. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    That happens sometimes, but just as often fans do know what they're talking about. And changes made to characters very often aren't slight and they aren't true to the characters. Fans have seen this time and again and they aren't overreacting. They simply recognize when something's been tampered with.

    Thanks for pointing that out. Just shows how complicated these things can be because everyone has their own experiences.
  12. TSSD

    TSSD Well-Known Member

    DrTooth, look at it like this. What if they changed Kermit's name here to Rana René? You wouldn't complain at all?
  13. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I'd just be confused is all. I wouldn't get the change, but as long as the charactrer is the same, I have no beef. Of course, that change would be different because, as I stated, giving him a Spanish name in Spanish speaking countries gives them the illusion that they own and created the character. Now, I know Sesame Street does that purposely with international Sesame Street shows... but then of course it works on 3-5 year olds whom Sesame Street is intended. Name changes make little sense to me anyway, because if we're getting something dubbed, we ALL know where it came from. This isn't new over here. Speed Racer, Tobor the 8th Man (which had a new American animated opening sequence)... all of those shows had to hide their Japanese origin. 4Kids built their anime line up hiding the fact Japanese cartoons are from Japan. According to the voice actor who I once had a conversation with on another board, they want to keep things culturally ambiguous. Sometimes it really does work. I didn't know Funky Cops was a French show for the longest time and I was in college when that thing aired.

    But the thing is, as Frogpuppetter said, they actually DO refer to him as both on occurrence from dub to dub. Some countries have better consistency of dub than others. Certain countries have had the same Kermit dubbing voice for everything from Sesame Street to movies... some vary from Sesame Street to Movie... some from movie to movie.

    My beef is, as I said, the same beef I have with immature anime fans that have been spoiled by being able to see uncut versions. I gotta stop acting like I did actually see Voltron and Robotech, sure... but I know people who did, and they didn't whine about the changes. They knew not of the original version. But the thing works BOTH ways. Sailor moon fans... really... I went to a panel for that and all these 20 somethings were BOO-ing DIC and Boo-ing the name changes when they gave them that exposure in the first place. Had it not been for DIC's perfect for the prudish American television market dub, half of them wouldn't even be into anime in the first place, let alone have heard of Sailor Moon. I like the true names as they capture the true artists vision as the next guy, but if they have to give them American sounding names to make them relate to 5 year olds that shouldn't be watching anyway, that happens. They do WORSE things in these dubs, and I've seen all of them. New anime fans would have been through the deepest pit in Hades if they had to put up with Harmony Gold. Goku would have been named Zero, if they had their way.

    The bottom line is, some countries change names, some don't. As I showed you, Kermit's Kermit in every country but 4, and those were because of Sesame Street localizations. If Disney decided Mickey should be uniformly Mickey when every country that didn't call him Mickey before knows his name is Mickey anyway, that's their decision. The point is people are complaining about changes to changes...

    "I'm in DESPAIR!! The international claiming and renaming of an intellectual property left me in despair!!!"

    (My sister's the only reason I'd make that joke"
  14. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    And if people started constantly correcting you if you ever said "Kermit" again? That wouldn't bother you? I am a bit skeptical. ;) (Not in a mean way, just saying. :) )
  15. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I'd call him whatever I'd like and if someone corrected me, I wouldn't be bothered... in the same fashion that if I draw King Koopa from the cartoon show and someone calls him Bowser, I don't correct them. Sometimes I tend to use both a localized and international name. But I never call Donald Duck Paperino (Italian name), even though I refer to his Italian alter Ego avenger as BOTh Paperinik and Duck Avenger, depending on who I'm talking to...

    Of course, the matter isn't someone hypothetically changing his true name to a localized version, but a localized version having to give a character the true name for brand uniformity.

    And something tells me that was planned all along with this movie...

    Not one of the Posters gives them an international name, especially Spain which has been calling them Los Telenucos (or something to that extent) for years. All it equals is brand uniformity when it comes to merchandise and dubbing issues. I understand everyone's childhood or nostalgia is so important to the individual, but there are WORSE travesties when it comes to that sort of thing. When they change the character completely to fit some lame kiddy movie stereotype, and go over the heads of the creators to do it. We know the dog I'm referring to. I was also NOT fond of New George of the Jungle, and not only did that keep the character names, it even fixed and old problem with the theme song being written before the show was okayed by the network and added a Fella character in... when they changed EVERYTHING about the show other than the Jungle setting.

    I will say this, I was confused by the fact Greedy Smurf was NEVER the baker or chef, and was actually an amalgam of those 3 characters for the cartoon show. But only at first, much to the matter of my first exposure to Scrooge McDuck was Ducktales and not realizing the Beagle Boys didn't have individual personalities like in Ducktales. Then I just categorized them as comic/cartoon differences in both aspects.

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