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The Adults and Snuffy

Discussion in 'Classic Sesame Street' started by D'Snowth, Dec 30, 2012.

  1. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    Maybe it's just me, but doesn't it seem like in the old days when Snuffy was "invisible", that the adults seemed, at times, almost mean with Big Bird about him? I mean a lot of kids at that age (used to be 4 1/2 before he was 6) have imaginary friends, and some of those kids also insist that their imaginary friends are real... often times, parents, or other adults, will humor the kids and go along with them by acting like their imaginary friends do exist; yet, whenever Big Bird even mentioned Snuffy, all the adults would start moaning and groaning, every thing short of telling him to STFU already. Seriously, at times, they'd even flat out say, "I'm sick of hearing about this Mr. Snuffleupagus", not to mention in the 70s, there was a street segment where an AM newsreporter would print headlines on the spot about Big Bird's argument with the adults about Snuffy's existence, and even Caroll Spinney repeatedly mentions the episode where the adults tell him he needs to stop believing in Snuffy because he isn't real and how he and Jerry Nelson were in tears inside their costumes as they shot their goodbye scene.

    So basically, my question is why did the adults have to be so blunt and, at times, downright mean, about thinking Snuffy was Big Bird's imaginary friend? Sure, I'm sure adults some times get a little tired of kids and their imaginary friends, but I don't think, for the sake of the kid, they'd just come out and say, "I sure am sick of you talking about your IMAGINARY FRIEND all the time, why don't you stop believing in him/her when he isn't real? Oh, and by the way, there is no Santa Claus, there is no Easter Bunny, and you're actually adopted."
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  2. CaseytheMuppet

    CaseytheMuppet Well-Known Member

    That line had me in stitches. :laugh:
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  3. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    The problem is they were writing the storyline like a typical kid's show where characters tease each other over their quirks. But thankfully they realized that since this was an educational show they needed to put more thought into it. ;)
  4. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    Is it bad that that's actually what I was aiming for?
    CaseytheMuppet and CensoredAlso like this.
  5. fuzzygobo

    fuzzygobo Well-Known Member

    I found it disheartening too that the adults were too quick to dismiss Snuffy.

    Gordon's first line from the very first show: "You'll love Sesame Street, Sally. EVERYTHING happens here!" But apparently the idea of Big Bird's "imaginary" friend lay outside the realm of "everything".

    Could even the adults on Sesame Street be too jaded and cynical to accept even a figment of Big Bird's imagination? Say it ain't so, Joe!

    I remember the moment when Big Bird was convinced Snuffy wasn't real, because the adults kept telling him so, and Snuffy was insisting he was real- he was standing right there! Even some kids on the set were trying to tell Big Bird Snuffy was real- THEY could see him too! Oh, the trials of being a kid (PHEW!!!!).

    When the adults were in New Mexico and went out at night and took peyote (these scenes were obviously not shown!) I wonder what imaginary characters THEY came up with?! That might be worth a ponder...
    Jared DiCarlo likes this.
  6. Daffyfan4ever

    Daffyfan4ever Well-Known Member

    I haven't seen that one. I wish I could find it online somewhere. But I guess that's one of those things that's sort of long-lost. But for the most part I agree with you though. At least I saw the Headline Howie episode and where it got to the point where the whole thing got Big Bird very angry. It's true. It's one thing not to believe in Snuffy, but for the most part they could have been more understanding. I'm glad Gordon, Maria and Linda started to wear down in later years. I guess at that point they felt like they didn't want to do anything that would give Snuffy away as being real, so if they had people start to support Big Bird's belief, eventually it might have taken something away from the whole concept. Of course all that led to the real reason he was revealed later on. I guess kids were worried that adults would get angry rather than believe what they were trying to tell them. Alternatively, as mentioned before, people were tired of BB using Snuffy as a scapegoat when things go wrong. They would have rather just had Big Bird fess up rather than blame someone who in their eyes was imaginary. I guess you have to see both sides of this.

    I do laugh at the situation in general, because of how of all the adults that were on the street at the time, not one of them would have noticed a huge mammoth-like creature walking down the street, so I guess a lot of them were quite 'out of it.'

    Yeah. I'm in the middle of watching the New Mexico eps now, but I haven't gotten that far yet, but I'll think about that.

    Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?

    I think so, Daffyfan2003, but what kind of animal is a Snuffleupagus anyway?
  7. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    Yeah, that was a nice redeeming moment towards the end of Episode 1836 where Gordon and Susan are willing to return to the park while Big Bird is waiting for Snuffy, even though they're so tired, they fall asleep before Snuffy finishes the marathon.
  8. Daffyfan4ever

    Daffyfan4ever Well-Known Member

    Hmmmm. I never thought that had much to do with Gordon's belief in Snuffy, but I see what you mean. It's too bad they missed him at the end. (Of course that was at Snuffy's insistence that they don't wake them. Gosh. We need a Snuffy smilie.)
  9. minor muppetz

    minor muppetz Well-Known Member

    I recall reading that Uncle Wally initially believed Big Bird that Snuffy was real, and read a post from somebody who remembered seeing an episode where, after Big Bird made a big deal out of the adults not believing him , Maria decided to start believing him (while the others still didn't). I would have thought that that occurred in season 16, perhaps shortly after deciding to have the adults see him (considering the reason for having them finally meet Snuffy, I'd think they'd want Snuffy to become "real" sooner rather than later). So I was surprised to see the season 15 episode where Snuffy is sick and see that Maria already believed in Snuffy by then (and it looks like Linda had already believed in him by that season 15 episode as well). And I was more surprised to see Maria believe in Snuffy in episode 1836, which means that the episode where Maria decided to believe in Snuffy's existence came in season 14 (if not earlier).

    In episode 2096, it's clear that Gordon, Maria, and Linda all believe that Snuffy is real, yet the fact that Uncle Wally believed in Snuffleupaguses is never brought up. Maybe he never told the other adults (which would explain why Gordon didn't mention Wally among those who did believe). Then again, during the scene where the adults over whether "food" is a silly secret word, the only ones who think the word's not silly are the ones who did believe in Mr. Snuffleupagus, including Wally - though whether one thinks "food" is a silly secret word or not should not reflect whether one believes in Snuffy.

    Episode 1836 is an interesting one regarding the issue of whether Snuffy's real. Maria seems to believe, deciding to go past Big Bird's doors to see him and later agreeing to wait for him with Big Bird, only for Olivia to stop her both times. In that episode it seems like Olivia and Bob most strongly disbelieve (heck, in episode 2096 I feel like there's something sinister about Bob not believing in him). And while Gordon and Susan don't believe in him yet, they are reasonable with Big Bird when he wants to wait for Snuffy (and Gordon mentions a few times that Snuffy's not real).
  10. Daffyfan4ever

    Daffyfan4ever Well-Known Member

    Yeah. I've noticed Maria was one of the first ones to believe. I didn't know that it was Wally that sort of convinced her. I've noticed that in a lot of season 15 episodes, but Gordon was skeptical for a while. At least that's what it seemed like in 1836 (That was the marathon episode right? I'm not very good with episode numbers.). But I guess he was just concerned about Big Bird being in the park in the dark with a lark (skip that last part. I just didn't want to break my rhyming pattern. Lol.) so late at night. Whether Snuffy was real or imaginary wasn't the issue there.

    Yeah. I agree with you there. I know 2096 was the one where the adults saw Snuffy for the first time. The weird thing is in a later episode, Bob's brother visited and he knew all about the history of Snuffleupaguses and the Golden Cabbage and all that jazz. I guess he and his brother never had that discussion in the past.
  11. minor muppetz

    minor muppetz Well-Known Member

    I didn't say that Uncle Wally convinced her. Retreading my post, I can see the confusion: I said that I read that Uncle Wally always believed Big Bird, and then I mentioned I read some forum gossip that there was an episode where Maria decided to believe him. When I said "him" I was referring to Big Bird.

    A few additional things to bring up:
    • When Big bird first met Snuffy in episode 276 and told the adults, they didn't seem to be as annoyed. Of course, his was the first Big Bird told them about Snuffy.
    • A Walking Tour of Sesame Street has a clip where it seems the characters where teasing Big Bird about Snuffy as opposed to being annoyed about Snuffleupagus.
    • it seems the Muppets didn't acknowledge Snuffy much, but when they did, based mainly on what I've read in posts, the Muppets didn't seem to be annoyed at all (wel, Owcar did show annoyance in the book Big Bird Goes to the Carnival). When Big bird asked Forgetful Jones to watch for Snuffy, he didn't question Big Bird (and when Big Bird tried to get Forgetful to remember the meeting, he was impressed by what Big Bird remembered as opposed to thinking it was an imagination).
    • It seems like in order for the adults to believe, one of the main adults had to see him, and any other alibi was dismissed (though it seems Bob was willing to remember Forgetful if he could only remember). When Telly saw Snuffy, the adults thought he was imagining (it's a shame Telly didn't think about asking Fluffy if she saw Snuffy). I mean, what if Gordon saw Snuffy while the others didn't, would they not believe him? Olivia wasn't in the episode where he was seen, I wonder if they had trouble convincing her after all the other adults did.
    • After all the trouble Big Bird went to get the adults to see Snuffy, it's a wonder that they no longer had trouble getting to see him afterwards. I'd as if seeing a Snuffleupagus is only easy for those who believe/ have seen him without being convinced (Big Bird didn't know about his species when they met).
  12. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    As far as the Muppets go, I think most of them either believed Snuffy was real, or were convinced otherwise by the adults... there's a clip on YouTube, where, apparently, Fluffy had gone missing, and Snuffy found her, to Telly's delight, but Telly tells Snuffy that he isn't real, that he's imaginary, but Snuffy insists he's real, so Telly decides to go get the adults to show them he is real, and he was the one who found Fluffy... though, unfortunately, as Telly runs off to fetch them, Snuffy and Fluffy decide to play a game of hide-and-seek... so, naturally, when Telly returns with the adults, both Snuffy and Fluffy appear to be gone.
  13. Daffyfan4ever

    Daffyfan4ever Well-Known Member

    Yeah. I know what you mean and even when I wrote that I didn't think that sounded right. I do agree that it was strange that there was no mention of that in episode 2096 (aside from the fact the Uncle Wally was one of the few who didn't think Big Bird's plan was silly).

    Well Muppets did acknowledge Snuffy sometimes. I do recall someone mentioning Bert interacting with Snuffy on an album with the Snuffy's. I always thought if Bert believed in him, he could just tell the adults since he's always been the more serious of the group and not one to imagine things. Just something I thought about.

    Well, remember the episode where Olivia sang opera with Placido Flamingo? When they sang about Big Bird's situation about Snuffy, she didn't seem to have any doubts there. It would have been nice if those two had interacted. After all, they did have a nice duet of "One Little Star" in "Follow That Bird." Too bad they were in different places at different times when they just happened to be singing the exact same song. It would have been nice if they had done that together at some point.

    Well, I think Snuffy's shyness had a little to do with that. Since he met the adults, I guess he felt more comfortable sticking around rather than walking away when someone was coming. Just a theory.

    Yeah. I've seen that too so I know what you mean. Then in the episode where Snuffy got sick, Telly definitely expressed a belief in Snuffy there. I'm not sure that was before or after that episode you described.

    Also, wasn't Fluffy originally male? I know she's a female now, but in her early years on the show especially in episode 1933 (I think that's the right number), Oscar called Fluffy a 'he.' I know I'm getting a bit off topic with this, but I'm just sort of curious there.
  14. minor muppetz

    minor muppetz Well-Known Member

    There is a clip at sesamestreet.org where Olivia interacts with Snuffy and Alice. I think the clip is titled "Alice Explores Olivia".

    I don't know which episode came first, but Hulu lists the "Snuffy Finds Fluffy" clip as being from season 15, the same as the episode where Snuffy gets sick, so it's close to the episode.

    Honestly, I didn't know what gender Fluffy is. I always assumed Fluffy was male, but then upon writing in this thread I starts thinking that Fluffy was primarily a girls name so I assumed Fluffy was female.
  15. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    I was always under the common belief that Fluffy was female.
  16. mostlikemokey

    mostlikemokey Well-Known Member

    If they had kept Snuffy's eyes as they were in his debut episode, I would not have believed in him either. Except perhaps in my nightmares.
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  17. minor muppetz

    minor muppetz Well-Known Member

    Well, at least in Snuffy's debut episode, Big Bird never mentioned his eyes in his description of Snuffy.
  18. D'Snowth

    D'Snowth Well-Known Member

    IIRC, he did.
  19. Daffyfan4ever

    Daffyfan4ever Well-Known Member

    Yeah. I believe she is now. I think they changed the gender like they did with Azreal on 'The Smurfs.' I hear that he was originally a female in the comics. Then there's Hoparoo on 'the Flintstones.' He's generally a male, but Betty called him a female in one episode. Maybe they were considering making him a female but they sort of nixed that idea. Just a thought while we were on the subject. Anyway back to the subject of Snuffy....

    Thanks for pointing that out. After watching that, I guess I can see why Olivia moved. Lol. I also remember the perm she had in later years.
  20. minor muppetz

    minor muppetz Well-Known Member

    I thought he didn't, so I just watched the scene again, and your right. Still, the mention of green eyes seems the most believable in his description.

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