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The Bible and Love and Christians

Discussion in 'Friends and Family' started by TheMonsterAteMe, Nov 25, 2010.

  1. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    That's all well and good, but his main point is we should all band together and just demand the US get the heck out of the Middle East. There's too many unsolvable problems with that place, and if it's oil or just some idiotic ploy to reassert our dominance in the world, it's not worth it. Honestly, we're not even getting those. Our world standing has never been weaker and oil's never been higher.

    We're seeing SOME parties co-operating with the Occupy Wall Street group. I mean, they ARE angry about the same thing, but they just want polar opposites for solutions. And it's that kind of disorganization that the people they're going after want. We're getting to the point where a certain news network actually went on rants vilifying the poor and canonizing the rich. Oh NOES! We can afford fridges to put our crappy food in. Why does anyone listen to that?

    As for the wars.. NO ONE likes them, and they only pretended to like it because of the almost McCarthy era like witch hunt they had for anyone who didn't agree with their politics. Now it turns out no one likes the war... the difference is that the person in charge isn't a media sweetheart to the loudest, nastiest voices. The only people still on board are fringe kookoo groups and war profiteers. And I suspect the wealthy that love to see the poor get killed while they're in their hot tubs eating caviar.

    I've said it before... we shoulda just let Russia have Afghanistan.
  2. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    The idea that the Nazis were just misunderstood is always going to get opposition from me.
    frogboy4 likes this.
  3. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    Never thought I'd see a defense of Nazism and Fascism here on a Muppet forum:)

    The Nazis stole their symbol from Tibet, stole the Aryan master race trope from Blavatsky who in turn reappropriated it from ancient Hindu lore("Aryan" is a mis-appropriation of Hindu concepts, nothing to do with whitey)

    I just can't defend any system that commits mass murder. Be it Sudan and China murdering 400,000+ in Darfur. Be it the communists mass murder in Russia, China, Southeast Asia, etc. Or even America/EU and its endless slaughter of innocent Muslims(even if 9/11 was done by some evil Muslims, doesnt give the US the right to invade country after country)

    But Im trying to say that yes, we should be tolerant of all people...just, the GOP tripled their budget to 1.5 million dollars to uphold Defense of Marriage Act.

    Though I am curious, what basic tenets of Nazism or Fascism(and in a way, I guess Japan could fit under there as well as Italy) are misunderstood or worth looking into?
    what part of the love-kindness-friendship for humanity spectrum does it fall into?

    Hey, I even take some issue with Buddhism...particularly pre China tibet where the rulers were doing some pretty terrible things. But to me Nazism. Communism, Capitalism...any governing system that creates an industry of mass murder I can't support. to me Obama bush Laden is just a figurehead, puppets dangled in front of people to exact extreme emotions and polarization. And we all know the tricks these tricksters behind the mass media have worked wonders in getting everyone to fight(as we'll see next year again with the 2012 presidential race)

    Jamie has a point tho...if say, a group is committed to wiping you out(westboro, aryan nations, Islamic jihadists, etc) how can one support that?
    frogboy4 likes this.
  4. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    I agree. The US's proxy war not only created everything we now know about modern radical militant Islam, but it lead to Russia murdering over a million Afghan civilians. Had Russia simply ruled from afar, things wouldnt have been so bad. But the US wanted one last chance to bleed Russia dry. And now its America being bled dry through wars, bailouts, falling dollar, etc
  5. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    Tolerant of people's right to free speech. That doesn't mean we should be tolerant of an inherently racist and destructive ideology.
    frogboy4 likes this.
  6. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    That's what I meant:) It's like holocaust denial stuff...that stuff makes me sick, but I also dont like how Europe throws holocaust deniers in jail.
  7. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    Yeah I know :), it's a real delicate balance that I think we lose sight of at times.
  8. BornToWemble

    BornToWemble Member

    I disagree, if you want tolerance you need to be tolerant. I honestly cannot believe I'm getting 'opposition' for being accepting of people and not lumping them all into one box. When I think of the spirit of Jim Henson I think of someone who wanted people to all be excepting of each other no matter what.
  9. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    Your statement is 100% ludicrous. I don't know where to start, so I'm going to leave crazy town for one of the other forum members to respond. :skeptical:

    Nonetheless, I still stand by my statement that not tolerating intolerance is not intolerance. :)
  10. BornToWemble

    BornToWemble Member

    People who stick to that view and seem to refuse to believe a person could be anything else tend to not know much about the ideology other than what was in propaganda. I don't know why you're bringing up holocaust denial because I don't know anyone who denies it nor did i bring it up? I just don't think combating bigotry with bigotry is kind of silly and hypocritical.

    Also I haven't really defended any ideology in my eyes, but rather treating people like people. Because a lot of people's first reaction to some is just plain wrong. A person isn't just their ideology

    I don't believe that for a second. I think Russia would have done that no matter what happened. It happened to family of mine last time someone just let Russia have something.
  11. BornToWemble

    BornToWemble Member

    And I stand by my statement that it is. It's hypocritical to want tolerance yet not be able to tolerate others. Especially since you're assuming an entire group is intolerant because of what little knowledge you have about them.
  12. frogboy4

    frogboy4 Inactive Member

    I usually support clever contrarians, but not when they behave as you have since arriving here. I have no tolerance for the intellectual dishonesty you continue to express by mis-characterizing the words of everyone in this thread. You haven't really been listening to anybody since arriving at this forum. You seem intent on picking fights with this community by loading-up bizarre arguments, stuffing misleading words in the mouths of others and criticizing a group that you’ve only just joined. Maybe you should consider taking some of your own advice, or at least settle in first before becoming so abrasive.

    I wonder how long it will be before a moderator steps in. I just hope they don't take down this thread. It's been heated at times, but it's also been a healthy discussion to this point.
  13. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Back to the topic...

    I'm SOOO glad the Log Cabin Republicans are actually GROWING a pear against their party nominees. Herman Cain wants to repeal the repeal of DADT (for the same pandering to the religious right they always have to pull), and supposedly gave the "it's a choice" myth and asked if someone can disprove him with science.

    To which the Log Cabins decried that there IS a lot of scientific proof. Seriously. First the fact that their party was withholding the repeal of DADT, now calling out one of the party front runners.

    I mean, I'll never like that party, but once they drop the "we're not bigots, and to prove it, let's do something bigoted to appeal to bigots." act I might respect them again.

  14. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    I know this isn't very scientific of me to say, but I really think if homosexuality was purely a choice, and people could just switch back and forth, a lot more people would have done it by now. I don't feel like my attraction to men is something I'm choosing to feel, anymore than I'm choosing to feel hungry, you know?
  15. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Exactly. If it was a choice, people wouldn't purposely choose to do something so vilified, and they could switch back and fourth whenever they pleased.

    But the main thing is, even amongst conservatives, they're starting to get sick of these wedge issues that do nothing but scare votes into people. I remember hearing a lot of people voted for Bush, not because they liked the wars or his policies, but the fact that they were afraid a Democrat would stand up for gay rights.

    Again, THIS is the separation between Church and State I want to see. People voting for the good of the country and not people voting for fears of something that's highly debated amongst religious scholars anyway.

    Still, you have these dumb wars that are costing us billions, bankrupting us, making us look like school yard bullies in the world order, killing civilians, killing our own men... same ol' same ol, yadda yadda... but the ONE thing they refuse is to let gays fight so rich upperclass twits who benefit financially due to stock ownership don't have to.
  16. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    Weeelll I disagree that people wouldn't purposely choose to do a vilified thing. People do that all the time in fact, hehe.
  17. Bannanasketch

    Bannanasketch Active Member

    Excuse me, I'm jumping in. I noticed a conversation started about Herman Cain's view on homosexuality. I know you're getting this information from his appearance on The View, but if you look at the whole interview, he goes on to say he would base his decisions on the constitution. Not on his personal beliefs. That's the President's job. I support Herman Cain.
  18. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    That's not the point.

    I'm saying these religious based wedge issues are counter productive to the country, and finally the gay Repbulican community is growing a pair and telling them to avoid that sort of garbage and get back to the real issues.

    Repealing the repeal of DADT will do nothing but say, "HEY! Vote for me because I don't like gays." That doesn't put food on anyone's plate, that doesn't solve anything, that's just another pointless wedge.

    Personally, I hate all of them on all sides and there's no one that will appeal to me at all, mainstream or indie... though Herman's one of the ones I am the least horrified by.
  19. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    I like him over Obama. Obama is too waffly(and I usually love waffles)
    And I do like pizza...even if Cain was behind a failed pizza chain.

    Anyways, I want to say we've missed you here in this thread. Things got a bit too...uh, fascistic as of late.
  20. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I don't like his Neo-Con yesman attitude towards the Wall Street protesters. That's my only real beef.

    Sure, I find their message muddled, and sure, they need to better organize themselves (sadly, I think they could learn their organization from the Tea Party), but at least they're saying what most Americans are thinking... that capitalism has been destroyed, not by socialism, but by those who rigged the game so they'd win. I'm really starting to agree with the hands off Big Business attitude towards government... they do NOT deserve higher subsidies and loopholes and tax bailouts if they refuse to hire anybody.

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