The complete and utter futility of being a fan of anything...

[Redsonga]

I just see the music videos as being a product of their time and not all that bad for what they were meant to do. I mean they had little girl me dancing . Even when I was little my tastes went movies, toys, then cartoon series though. They use to make pretty okay mini-tv movies for just about everything...

 

[AndyWan Kenobi]

Well, as they say, familiarity breeds contempt. Sometimes people start hating on something just because it's not new to them anymore.

Of course, sometimes quality does decline. But you know, when I was a kid and the quality of something declined, I just stopped being interested in it. I moved on to things I liked better. But what bothers me now in fandom is how many people take deep personal offense when something isn't to their tastes, as though it personally set out to hurt them and spoil their childhood memories. Some projects don't turn out the way they should, despite everyone's best efforts. Some turn out better than expected. And much of that is subject to opinion, which, by its nature, is personal and capricious. But the amount of time, energy, and emotion that's wasted on online rants against things that didn't live up to expectations is crazy to me. If you don't want to see something, don't see it! If you saw something and you didn't like it, you'll live! If you liked parts of it, enjoy those parts! And if you loved it, GREAT! But stop wasting so much time railing against things for falling short of the expectations you've set for them. It doesn't make the movie/book/show any better for people to waste their lives away writing angry manifestos so that they can feel justified in their disappointment. And it doesn't mean that favorite characters or their creative caretakers should just hang it up and stop trying to do something new that honors their legacy. Sometimes they will succeed, and sometimes they will fall short--as always.

If Zombie Shakespeare came back and started writing plays again, I would hate to see the fan forums. You'd either get "OMG! Another forbidden romance, like Romeo and Juliet. Squeee!" or "Lame! This is just a cash-in, and it's trying too hard to play to nostalgia. Yeah, I get it--a guy is avenging someone's death and there are soliloquies. Real original." "New" Shakespeare would either be a comfortable old blanket, a worn-out retread, or (for some people) the hated despoiler of everything that was pure and good about "Old" Shakespeare, who probably should have worked a little harder to stay dead.

The amount of anger I see on many fan forums--especially when it comes to making something new out of an old favorite--is staggering. So many conversations turn into "Things now are cruddier than they used to be!" and that just bores me to death. I do think this happens at Muppet Central a LOT less than at some other sites, though. One of the nice things about this place is how many enthusiastic and optimistic people there are.

 

[Drtooth]

If Zombie Shakespeare came back and started writing plays again, I would hate to see the fan forums. You'd either get "OMG! Another forbidden romance, like Romeo and Juliet. Squeee!" or "Lame! This is just a cash-in, and it's trying too hard to play to nostalgia. Yeah, I get it--a guy is avenging someone's death and there are soliloquies. Real original." "New" Shakespeare would either be a comfortable old blanket, a worn-out retread, or (for some people) the hated despoiler of everything that was pure and good about "Old" Shakespeare, who probably should have worked a little harder to stay dead.

The amount of anger I see on many fan forums--especially when it comes to making something new out of an old favorite--is staggering. So many conversations turn into "Things now are cruddier than they used to be!" and that just bores me to death. I do think this happens at Muppet Central a LOT less than at some other sites, though. One of the nice things about this place is how many enthusiastic and optimistic people there are.

And let's not forget, Shakespeare (if he did write that stuff) did have some lousy plays too. Not everything is gold. There are some Henson projects I don't care for when he was doing them. I honestly wish he could've pitched and did Starboppers after Fraggle Rock (it was pitched in the middle) and didn't do the Mother Goose show. I mean, does anyone remember or even speak of the Mother Goose show? And I have said for a while, I don't care much for the play along videos except for the one with Carol Spinney's original characters.

And I have to say, I don't quite like the oldest version of Mighty Mouse where he remained silent and battled cats and fairy tale characters... I really love the ones where he fights Oil Can Harry. But my favorite versions of Mighty Mouse are the Filmation one (especially the movie Great Space Chase) and the Ralph Bakshi 1988 series (minus the budget episodes they had to do, but that was reasonable). Meanwhile, I love the original Ren and Stimpy up until the point where John K was fired, but I'm mixed about the new ones he did because... quite honestly he had too much freedom with that one. It was funnier when you weren't expecting something graphic or adult.

The biggest example of something that isn't the same as it used to be but has the same creator behind it is Star Wars. Now, I can't say the first 2 prequel episodes were great... I don't even think the last one holds up to the original... but I still find them all enjoyable to an extent... though the pacing of the first one is dreadful and Darth Maul demanded more screen time. That said, Kids LOVE the new Clone Wars cartoon series. Sometimes when we have these revamps, reboots, continuations, whatever, it DOES speak to people. I find stuff like Smurfs and Yogi films bad NOT because they're revamps, retreads or reboots... but the fact that they could have been so much better. I especially hate the Smurf movie because we were going to get a quite different film out of Paramount that I was looking forward to. Stuff like this happens, and I can ignore it. I just hate the inevitable walk of darkness when the movies tank, the merchandise goes on clearance and then you never see them again.

 

[D'Snowth]

Because this thread has already been blown wau into gigantic proportions, and there's really nowhere for me to contribute anymore, I'll just add my half-a-cent's worth to the pot...

When it comesto the new, my only problem is when they do all the things they SHOULDN'T do: see, the people who take charge of the new feel this need that they need to "modernize" and "update" the characters and such so that they'll appeal today's audiences, hence why most remakes of classics are just plain terrible, but the characters haven't grown or developed, they've just completely changed, because apparently, today people like the fart jokes and thecrap jokes, and all that stuff like Drtooth has mentioned several times.

That's probably the reason why people like Charles Schulz have always discouraged changing characters and such, and while I see where he's coming from, there's a difference between change and development: and there's nothign wrong with developing characters overtime, because it reflects real life scenarios, thus making the characters more believable and relatable, because people in real life grow and develop from the experiences they've had in their lives... why do you think M*A*S*H was on the air for so long? Unlike most shows back in those days where watching an episode from a later season is almost the same as watching an episode from an earlier season, the series grew and the characters grew and developed as it progressed. Even Sonia Manzano has said she believes that's why so many people have continued to watch SST over the years because the humans were allowed to age and grow and develop with the show, which reflects real life, and we've all seen how Maria grew on the show, from the teenaged Latina who mingled with the resident cool cat, to being a loving wife and mother, aas well as a confidant for the Muppet characters and such.

That, there's nothing wrong with, it's just the complete change of a character's personality just because they feel the personality and such they had in the past will seem "dated" if they were like that in today's modern society; again, that's why so many new incarnations or remakes fail miserably... is it no wonder why already Winnie the Pooh is so successful?

And that brings something else to mind to: whenever new technology comes out, there's always such a hype about it, and it's exploited for all it's worth, when newer isn't always better... like I've said before, you know how all this stuff is shot today in "HD" and "digital" formats that are supposed to be superior to previous formats? Yeah, take a look at something that was shot on 35mm film (properly restored and remastered of course), and compare it to something that was shot in "HD"/"digital" format... you see a BIG difference, but not the kind that we're supposed to see... the filmed piece is of a far superior quality, clear, clean, sharp, whereas the "HD" piece is pixelated, blurry at times, and looks like a video that was posted on YouTube. I mean, look at the 40 Years of Sunny Days DVD, just look how crystal clear the clips are just before Season 39 and 40... and those were shot on VIDEO TAPE, which was supposed to be a cheaper, and lower-quality alternative to film. And, people always claim you lose 25% of your picture in "full screen", well, you lose 25% of your picture in widescreen too, only difference is in full screen, the only thing you lose is people standing off to the side and staring into space, with widescreen you lose the tops of people's heads, and other such things... I'd rather lose people standing off to the side and do nothing but stare into space as oppsed to the tops of people's heads and such.

I could go on, but I don't think I will.

 

[CensoredAlso]

Have you ever noticed that in a so called fan base NOTHING is ever good enough for anyone? No matter how much effort goes into something, it's never good enough... People ask for a show to return, and the episodes aren't good enough

A great majority of the time, remakes aren't good enough, lol. So I can't plan those fans myself.

 

[Drtooth]

But how about the cases when the fans are looking forward to something, and they just don't get that project? The other side of the coin is, what happens when big projects fall through? That's the other side of how depressing it is to be a fan of something.

Just this year, Capcom pulled 2 high profile MegaMan games that they kept building up hype for since last ComiCon... even going as far to hand out foam blasters and get the Robot Chicken guys to make a stop motion video game trailer for one of them. Then the creator of MegaMan left the company, one project was unfinished and canceled... the fans seemed mixed because One game didn't seem that good anyway... but then months later ANOTHER high profile game was canned, and the company almost gave up completely on the characters. Now the fans, and I are in mortal fear the Archie Comics MegaMan series will be pulled. And it's great.

Not to mention the fact the Cookie Jar merger killed any hopes for a slightly hyped epic Inspector Gadget series. Well... we got an impossible to find comic book graphic novel and ONE T-shirt out of it...

A great majority of the time, remakes aren't good enough, lol. So I can't plan those fans myself.

The problem with remakes is that a lot of them are handled terribly. Yet, which Dirty Rotten Scoundrels does everyone remember? The one with Michael Cain and Steve Martin... the REMAKE! It even had a musical based on the REMAKE! For every Planet of the Apes or Loonatics Unleashed, we do manage to get something good that fans just can't fathom because it's not exactly the same, but manages to keep up the spirit. I mean, I really did love the new TMNT (until the toy company kepted messing with the concept to sell toys), and I'm digging He-Man 02.... never saw the "New Adventures of He-Man" from the late 80's though...but not over the 80's one. But then again, I only became a fan of He-Man last year through qubo's Night Owl, so I'm not extremely attached.

Somehow I find the greatest remake idea ever to be Dragon Ball Kai. It uses old footage that's been remastered, but it has new music (until they had to replace the soundtrack due to legal problems with the composer), supposedly new dialogue... and in the US the dub is closer to the original source material (even using the REAL line of "It's over 8000!" instead of Ocean's more famous 9000). Plus it cuts out a LOT of terrible episodes that they made so the anime doesn't run ahead of the comic. too bad it ended before they did the Buu arc, though.

 

[CensoredAlso]

For every Planet of the Apes or Loonatics Unleashed, we do manage to get something good that fans just can't fathom because it's not exactly the same, but manages to keep up the spirit.

Well that's your opinion that it keeps the spirit. And that's fine. But not everyone agrees that it does. So it's not that they can never be pleased, it's that they honestly don't agree with the result.

 

[Drtooth]

But then again, you look at Tiny Toons... LT purists HATED it (John K ranted like crazy about it), but it reached our audience and everyone loves it. It's one of the hugest fan bases of a long cancelled cartoon series out there... even bigger than Animaniacs that followed it. Eh... of course it can't hurt that the fans also have a strange furry crush on Fifi.

So, basically you never know. The LT TV shows do have their followings, but it seems like Tiny Toons and Taz-Mania are the most beloved of the 2. But then again, anything and everything has a fan base. Even downright cruddy stuff speaks to people. Some things a previous generation dislikes due to nostalgic reasons, but it speaks to younger fans.

Still, I'm always looking for new. I've seen most of the old. I always revisit the old stuff, but if we get new stuff, I'm usually out to give it a shot.

So far, the only new things I really hated were Loonatics and George of the Jungle (liked the movies, though), but only because they were lacking of quality no matter what. Though, to be fair, GOTJ had some good animation.

 

[Larxene]

Just this year, Capcom pulled 2 high profile MegaMan games that they kept building up hype for since last ComiCon... even going as far to hand out foam blasters and get the Robot Chicken guys to make a stop motion video game trailer for one of them. Then the creator of MegaMan left the company, one project was unfinished and canceled... the fans seemed mixed because One game didn't seem that good anyway... but then months later ANOTHER high profile game was canned, and the company almost gave up completely on the characters. Now the fans, and I are in mortal fear the Archie Comics MegaMan series will be pulled. And it's great.

Capcom's had a love/hate affair with MegaMan since the 90's so the canceling of those games wasn't much of a surprise to me. This is the same company that told me via phone in 1995 that they "were not going to release MegaMan 7 stateside" and that if I wanted to continue playing MegaMan at all, I had better "learn Japanese and start importing" because they were done with it. I wish I'd recorded the conversations I had with this company back in the day. They really disliked MegaMan and I was told constantly it was an "out of date 2D repetitive game no one wanted". They never bashed Street Fighter though, nor do they ever not release another rehashed version of it, because they know the fanbase will eat up any incarnation they pump out no matter how bad or repetitive.

Now as to the topic at hand...

Have you ever noticed that in a so called fan base NOTHING is ever good enough for anyone? No matter how much effort goes into something, it's never good enough... and how a labor of blood, sweat, tears, and love is exactly the same as someone throwing something terrible with no effort or care into the world?

My BFF and I have a friend who fits this perfectly. We all grew up in the 70's and 80's together but he seems to still think he can live there. The new He-man? "Oh it's not as good as the one we grew up with. What's with Cringer not talking? Awwww this sucks." The new Transformers movies? "Well they're okay but I miss the old Transformers. Why isn't Megatron a gun? This would have been better if they had all the original voices." The new TMNT? "Why don't they like pizza? Where's the cowabungas? This is r**ing my childhood!" (and when I explained it's based more on the original comic which came BEFORE the cartoon, he sulked and said it sucked too) The new Thundercats? "Oh this is garbage! It looks too anime, why did they do that? This isn't like our Thundercats at all, ehhhhh."

My ex was worse and eventually, he let the fandom he was involved in dictate his opinions on things he once loved. Anime and video-games became vile, worthless things with no redeeming value all because a few fanboys had decided putting them down was 'hip' and made their fandom look better. The only ones worth anything? The ones he'd watched and played as a kid of course! Everything else was something I should be ashamed to like and enjoy, the same as he was ashamed to have once enjoyed them.

This is a big reason why he's now an ex.

I don't live wholly in the past and I disowned fandom a long time ago. Fandom can scream something sucks all they want, if I enjoy it then I enjoy it. Nothing will be as 'special' as the things I enjoyed as a child and I accept this but it doesn't mean I can't like something new or I can't still like something once it's no longer hip.

The only thing that matters to said "fans" is TERRIBLE fan fic where everyone just bonks each other and bad new characters with no personality steal the spotlight.

This is particularly true in the fandoms I come across... and it's why I disowned Kingdom Hearts fandom entirely. When you've let the plot, charm and enjoyment of series be lost in favor of debates about sexual orientation and who must be sleeping with whom, you're no longer worthy of being called a fan IMHO.

 

[Redsonga]

There are different ways of being a fan. Not all fanfic or fandom debates are necessarily bad. Some people care so much about issues that arise from thinking about things that happen in the actual story and debate about it simply because they like the real story so much . Now what I don't like is when people have not even seen/played the show or game they are writing or debating about and get their ideas they battle for so deeply from other fanart/fanfic rather than from their own reaction to what the story actually is. It is one thing to write fanfic being a fan, it is quite another to write it based on another fans POV/ draw fanart based on another fans take and never actually have any other link with the show/game. This is a growing problem with many fandoms I'm a part of, all of them that I love having deep talks about