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The movie could have been even better (article)

Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by beaker, Nov 29, 2011.

  1. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    I know it's gotten almost 100% unanimous praise from critics and fans alike, but after seeing it a couple times I just cannot shake loose that something is not just a little but drastically off.
    After reading this article on what was deleted, I am so wishing we lived in a world where THIS was the final cut of the movie. It would have tied EVERYTHING together, and would have been a near flawless film. Watching it now, I feel Im glimpsing something that is special, but that Im glimpsing something that HAD the potential to be even more stellar

    It sounds like a LOT of scenes they shot were cut and or nixed altogether..I have no idea why they cut some of this stuff, as it would have made so much more sense. I know its taboo right now to nitpick, but I think we'd have 100% instead of 98% reviews.

    If only *sigh*


  2. Avilos

    Avilos Well-Known Member

    None of the previous Muppet films have been longer than an hour and 30 minutes or an hour and forty minutes. This was an hour and 38 minutes.

    The length was the reason. Family films tend to work better at that timing. The only complaints about the film on missing scenes and its affect on the overall film are from hardcore fans with the knowledge of that stuff.
  3. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    Right, but why is it "fantasy" family and kids films can get away with being over two hours? Ive rarely seen a kids film like Muppet movies that can make you cry or tear up. So I wouldnt put it in the same category as your typical cgi fest if I were a company executive.

    Ive actually talked with non fans and read some reviews where they took issue with the ending and some of the pacing/scenes that felt edited. It's definitely not just fans.

    I have a feeling had the movie been allowed to breathe more and less edited, noone would be complaining and itd be even beyond what people are raving about
  4. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Well that's OK, It's a Wonderful Life ends basically the same way with the villain technically "winning." Yet it still remains one of the most beloved endings in movie history.
  5. minor muppetz

    minor muppetz Well-Known Member

    Ever since I saw Statler and Waldorf with Tex Richman in the trailers I had hoped that they would somehow help the Muppets in the end. I also expected them to be assisting Richman a bit more in the movie.

    The junior novel includes the scene with Statler and Waldorf deciding to give the Muppets the last dollar needed, by dropping it from the balcony, only for wind to blow it away (so the Muppets are still short on money... And this is followed by the amount changing so they still weren't even close).
    Muppet fan 123 likes this.
  6. Avilos

    Avilos Well-Known Member

    But all the classic Muppet films where of the same length. I was not talking about modern CGI films. Where the older films not long enough?
  7. Puckrox

    Puckrox Well-Known Member

    Well, that ending would have certainly tied things off. Let's just hope for the best with the DVD!
  8. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    Aw that is true. But this does not feel at all like a classic film to me, as much as I know that was their intention. This feels like a very modern film(in the way its shot, edited, written, etc) and thats fine, as I know their heart was in(and they succeeded greatly) in bringing the classic feeling injected into a modern film.

    I just think audiences now are ok with longer family features. And given that we're now learning of the wealth of edited scene, it will be curious to find out how much different(for better or worse) the film would have been...or if the cuts felt necessary.
  9. Avilos

    Avilos Well-Known Member

    My point is we are living in a different age now. The films we grew up on as kids we knew nothing about early script drafts or cut scenes. There was no internet to read about such things and no way of ever seeing missing footage on DVDs. THough stuff like this always has happened on movies.
  10. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    Thats true. Some films I loved as a kid I now see on dvd and go "ehh...I remember it being much better". Some films I grew up with in the 80's, blow me away even today and I literally find them flawless. With the advent of dvd it was fun to see all the deleted/alternate/extended takes of a film, or now and then happen upon a torrent of an early workprint. Sometimes a workprint or delete scenes would actually be better than the final product, or you can see why they decided to leave them out.
  11. Frogpuppeteer

    Frogpuppeteer Well-Known Member

    i agree anything can be better than its original run..the movie i was in suffered from a ton of cuts that couldve made the movie better but im happy to learn of a new uncut version

    but im getting off track....i hope no one bites my head off and even though i loved it..i feel the toy story short cut into some of the time that ended up being on the cutting room floor, if it hadnt been attached maybe we couldve seen a few more scenes or fleshed out moments
    Muppetfan44 likes this.
  12. DannyRWW

    DannyRWW Well-Known Member

    Interesting point about the toy story short...I think Disney thought the Muppets needed Toy Story and yet when I asked my students about it they actually thought the Toy story short was their least favorite part (They preffered the Hawain vaction one before Cars 2...which did need Toy story if you ask em). That beeing said I'm fine with the ending because I like the even though they lose they win vibe to it...but the tacked on tex Richman giving them the theater thing gives us closure for those of us who need it (it didn't come too late in the credits in my mind either). I'm not sure I would have liked the Statler and Waldorf idea as the scene where the Muppets walk out defeated only to be greeted by their fans is probably the best moment in the movie. It gave me chills and made me tear up a little both times I saw the movie (went Monday night with 20 people from my schools puppet team...which by the way was perfect as we were the only ones in the theater... beacause nobody goes to a movie at 3:20 on a Monday, not because the movie is doing poorly.... I just wanted it to be my group there and not many other people :)
  13. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    On the one hand, I kinda expected that... even though it makes a strong ending it kinda... well... that ending has kinda been done already... At the end of the Sesame Street special Stars and Streets Forever, Oscar the grouch confronts the villain who's trying to demolish Sesame Street. That's a very similar ending. A stronger one, maybe... but I kinda like the payoff that Gonzo spent 10 minutes of a movie winding up a bowling ball to throw, only to let go of it, conking Tex in the head. Also, from what I read, one of the alternate takes was to be Tex laughing at Fozzie's Fart shoes. Overall, I think the movie sends a strong message that fans mean a lot more to a franchise than those who own it. To see them come out the door and greeted by hundreds of fans when one guy was trying to take them down, that's what I walked out thinking. Plus, at least it didn't end with something becoming a landmark or someone recording Tex Richaman and playing it to an audience.


    That really SHOULD have been kept in the movie ONLY to help make the ending they had work. He did have a very childish vendetta, and it would have made more sense than just "I want the oil." I really hope for an extended edition on DVD. Not just the deleted scenes... adding those sequences back in like they did with that musical number from MCC. I'm sure they took no pleasure from cutting everything, though it seems like they filmed a 3 hour sweeping epic and just cut everything to a certain brisk pace.

    Of course... there is one OTHER ending...

    in one of the early drafts, there WAS no real Tex Richman. It was really Kermit in a human costume, and the entire stunt was to get the gang back together. While it did speak to Kermit's character, I don't think I would've liked that ending that much.
    Duke Remington likes this.
  14. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    Yeah exactly, all the massive cuts makes Tex super 1 dimensional and a trivial aside plot device.

    I LOVE the idea of a "bad ending" that has a positive side. That happened at the end of Reel Steel. I have no issues with that part of the ending. In fact I hate the almost missable newspaper flash of tex richman giving the theater back.

    I think its just how the final finale was handled. Tho it was funny when she answers him with "mahna mahna!" So cute. Thats a sign of a really special gal when she can reference mahna mahna.

    However, reading about all the other cuts...kind of rubs me the wrong way.

    Thing with "Small Fry", it was so amazing to me(I hated Toy Story 3, Hawaiian Vacation was so so to me) I woulda paid $5 just to see that. I dont think it ate into Muppets time at all. Winnie the pooh had no attached shorts and it was only an hour.
  15. Duke Remington

    Duke Remington Well-Known Member

    Actually, Winnie the Pooh did have a short attached to it: "The Ballad of Nessie".
  16. Puckrox

    Puckrox Well-Known Member

    I forgot about that short. I really liked it. It was cute. :)
  17. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I really hope for an extended edition.. not just a bunch of deleted scenes. Just to recut the movie with some of the extra scenes in it. In fact, it makes the fact his Maniacal Laugh sounded so fake and forced work better. I hate when any movie has to slash at bone to make the movie fit in a multiplex enforced time frame. The only single problem I had with the movie is there should have been more of it. Even by just 10 minutes. Sometimes it really feels the studio forces directors to make cuts that SHOULD be in the movie for those reasons.
  18. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    For people saying that pg family films have to meet a certain timeframe, Harry Potter's numerous films have often been well over 2 hours. The Muppets isnt all goofy slapstick like most modern family films, as theres many serious/tearjerking elements.
    Again I seriously doubt any person would be complaining if it was just 10 minutes longer. And I cant compare it to the original trilogy clocking in at under 2 hours as those are not modern films. And Muppets 2011 is nowhere near the feel of the classic films. Its made for a modern audience, and doesnt have the natural organic flow of the originals. And thats fine, but I think most people woulda been ok with a slightly longer cut. I doubt Small Fry cut into the running time decision at all
  19. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    It's not the people wanting a longer cut that's the problem. I'm sure everyone would have loved seeing a few more minutes here and there... it's those multiplex conglomerates who want to shove in as many multiple showings of something as possible that the studios feel they have to cater to. I once heard that someone made them cut 7 seconds out of Nightmare Before Christmas for no dang reason. The Shadow Oogie Boogie thing that was supposed to be in the middle of the song.

    My sister told me that there's a huge cut out of Suckerpunch that makes more sense on the blu ray (I HATE that they only put features on those stupid things). I'm not exactly sure what it is.
  20. minor muppetz

    minor muppetz Well-Known Member

    One thing I wonder: With the Muppets needing the money by a certain time, wouldn't they actually need to have all of the money handy by the end of the telethon? If people called and pledged money, wouldn't it take awhile to actually get the money to the theater?

    And I wonder what they did with all the money they made when they didn't reach the amount needed. Did the Muppets split it amongst themselves? Did they donate all the money to charity? Did the network keep the money?

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