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The Muppets Figures Have Problems!

Discussion in 'Action Figures' started by bhg738, Jul 12, 2002.

  1. bhg738

    bhg738 Active Member

    A couple of weeks back I started a thread about my concerns about collecting the Muppets figures. I felt that due to the re-paints, exclusives etc that this line would self destruct!

    I put the post in Muppet Central to see what you thought and I got some pretty good responses. The only problem is that most of you are die hard muppet fans so some may say the replies could be biased.

    Since then I have discussed my feelings with other collectors on action figures boards and it would seem there are a LARGE amount of people who agree with me!

    I had a large volume of replies most of which were along the lines of:

    Too many exclusives - I wont collect!
    If I cant get hold of things with ease I dont want any!
    This line is destryoed before it started!

    Another general feeling was that people flat out will not buy any in dispute of the exclusives and some people have already sold there wave 1.

    The most important feeling and trust me it was mentioned by many...people feel this line will die sooner than later due the exclusives.

    Oh and before you all jump at me...... Everyone remember this and if you dont call them and they will be happy to tell you. Playmates destroyed their own toy line due to their exclusives and low production numbers. They admit it and said they would never do it again. They learnt their lesson and realised collectors want to be able to get everything and give up if they cant.

    It is no use someone saying oh there is no need to buy Beaker in the bag it was an error...rubbish! Collectors see this as a different figure and want it. How many Star Wars collectors buy 10 of the same figure just because it may have a picture of typing error.

    It is this simple and plenty of people backed me up - this line is NOT aimed at collectors! At the end of the day that could be the downfall of the line!

    I hope not but when one of the main reps at Palisades tells us not to buy a beaker in a packet as its a mistake that is enough proof to prove they dont appreciate the feelings of true collectors.
  2. MaxGoof

    MaxGoof Well-Known Member

    What? You're waaaaaaaaaay off-base.

    First off all, I am NOT a hardcore Muppet fan, and you shouldn't generalize and say that everyone here is. I think that a LOT of the people here are fans of the figures and movies and don't know a great deal about the Muppet Show. Palisades is the most collector-friendly company I've ever heard of. What other company has a rep that comes online and answers collectors' questions and concerns several times DAILY?

    Second of all, "The Muppet Show" is not exactly the hottest propety on the market--the exclusives were necessary to get press and to kick-start the launch of the line.

    Third of all--the exclusives are FANTASTIC figures that we otherwise might not get. I adore Vanishing Spray Fozzie from Muppets from Space, and Kermit in his Tuxedo, and all versions of Beaker... these are great exclusives that a lot of time and effort went into.

    Fourth of all and most importantly--there are no more "impossible-to-get" exclusives. The Palisades Collector Club has arrived--Hallelujah. From now on, people can buy that Vanishing Spray Fozzie or Invisible Beaker right from the comfort of home. And EB Piggy and Tuxedo Kermit have always been easy to get. So that leaves ONE rare figure--the Dr. Teeth repaint. And if someone is that pathetic that they wouldn't collect a line because they can't get one repaint of a figure in an outfit he never wore in the series to begin with, maybe they shouldn't be collecting anyway.

    If you don't want to collect the line--don't. No one's making you. But Palisades is doing an INCREDIBLE job for both action figure collectors and Muppets fans. They have made the line as accessible to collectors as anyone could possibly, possibly expect them to. Their Collector's Club is a huge service to us all, and proves Palisades is perhaps the most fan-friendly and collector-friendly company ever. To offer all regional limited exclusives to collectors world-wide goes well beyond the call of duty for such a small company. Palisades deserves commenations for their efforts--not complaints.

    Any other complaints? :p
  3. uncleduke

    uncleduke Well-Known Member

    Wow, like those Pinpal Burns that sold out in one day, you are right, that Killed the line..... hey, that line is still alive and healthy, with plenty more on the way!

    Ok, I will concede this one. Like the exclusive Luke that was only given away at theaters. So many people are disenchanted......
    I was at Toys R Us, and there were only 3 aisles of Star Wars toys. Man, you could practically hear the funeral dirge starting up.

    If you are so anal you need everything, there is a websight you might find usefull click here
    They have all of the variants available for sale. ;)
    These toys are such a failure, that is why it took them almost 2 weeks for the production run to completely sell out......
    Mike, Ken......
    You must wear the ribbons of shame
    (name that film)

    BTW that was all intended to be extremely sarcastic.
  4. bhg738

    bhg738 Active Member

    Oh the controversy!

    Thanks for the replies. First let me point out a couple of things.

    Palisides must have realised they were making a mistake about the exclusives and thought it could damage them. The club is a refelction on that.

    No other toy company still issues exclusives like they did. The current Mer-man and Gold iron Man figures are short packed but can all be found with a little effort. There is a big difference to having to in some cases travel 1000s miles to a convention.

    Palisides are a newish company and I could be wrong but maybe they did not realise that other companies have suffered through exclusives!

    Yes Ken is a great guy to come here but that is customer relation based NOt marketing which is the domain exclusives come under!

    It is a fact of life that people collect and some want everyting be it due to compulsiveness or greed! It is human nature so if people cant meet their needs they dont care!

    I would also like to point out there are many ways to get interest in a line without giving stuff away! The press can look at prototypes, press releases etc! Most lines succeed without industry giveaways!

    On the Mr Burns point - that is no comparison. The first set of Simpsons did not sell amazingly. The exclusives numbers were based on this Glow Homer was still around months after the issure release! Burns was produced in a comparitive quantity of 10,000. By this time the line had picked up and it sold out. Since then Playmates learnt their lesson and realised the exclusives needed to be made in more quantity! 10,000 is a far cry from 500 so there is NO comparison at all. This fiasco was a few years ago so there was plenty of time for other companies to take note!

    As far as Star Wars go again no comparison. Star Wars looses collectors of the figures all the time. The thing is Star Wars is so popular and appeals to kids so much and exclusives make no differnce. It is and always will be a hot property! For every collector that cant bear the exclusives and gives up another 10 come along and start up! What is important to note is that Kenner in the UK HAVE realised Kenner USA are hurting the line and have ensured UK collectors that all exclusives will be made avliable to them in some way.

    Bottom line is give away figures in the run of 500 hurt lines. Every toy company knows it from years of business. If I am so in the wrong why have they all made ajustments!

    Action Figures are no longer for kids but collectors too and most collectors have compulsive behaviour. If that cant be met they steer away from a line!
  5. ResidentLilly

    ResidentLilly Well-Known Member

    Every company I am aware of still does indusrtry give aways from time to time...including Star Wars.

    You know, I could argue each of your comments, but it is really pointlesss...and everyone else...leave the guy alone too.

    If you don't want to collect the line, then just don't. I stand by what we are doing, have explained all over the place why and think we are doing a decent job. If you consider a giveaway or a factory error and a part of the line that you must have and now since you can't get them you don't want any figs...well, welcome to America.
  6. bhg738

    bhg738 Active Member


    Thanks for the reply!

    First I must point out that I DO want the line to be a success. I really hope that it works and continues a long way down the line.

    My only real concern is that the exclusives do turn some people away. I have encountered a large volume of posts from people whoo have felyt this way and found it very difficult to come to terms with the fact that a line in its infancy has produced so many variants!

    Do you or the company feel that this could lead to problems down the road or not? It would be interesting to know now down the road your feelings!

    In my case do not see every error as a variant. For example I would not buy something that had a spelling error but do feel that a complete change in packaging is a difference! There are many who agree!

    I DO NOT agree you are doing a decent job - I feel you are doing an amazing job! The figures are well crafted and very appealing. I just would hate to see this go to waste if people are being turned away!

    In my oppinion and am willing to be proofed wrong I do feel you may have had some regrets about the giveaways etc due to the opening of the club and the announcement of no more exclusives.
  7. ResidentLilly

    ResidentLilly Well-Known Member

    My only regret is the low number on the Dr. Teeth. I don't regret the amount of exclusives in Series One or the creation of a collector's club to get people better access in the future.

    Yes Series One has an unusually high number of variations. But we need something to get people to notice this line at launch...after all, the show is not on the air (Simpson's) and their is no movie to boost it (Star Wars, LOTR) and there is no comic book to support it (GI Joe) and no cartoon to watch about it (He-Man). Something had to get people to take notice. The extra exclusives did that.

    I know that turns some people away. That is outside of my ability to control. At the end of the day, I have to ask myself if the company is doing all it can do to please most of its supporters.

    I believe it is.
  8. uncleduke

    uncleduke Well-Known Member

    I just wanna make sure I get the point

    bhg738, I am not trying to be evil, nasty, or hostile. I just cannot think of any other way to phrase this, so please do not take offense:

    Now, if I understand this correctly:
    1. you started a similair thread a couple of weeks ago
    2. the majority of us did not agree with you
    3. you went to a different website, that caters to collectors
    4. you found people who agreed with you
    5. you came back with a big fat I told you so
      is that a fair assesment?
      I, like you, am a toy collector, who happens to love the Muppets.
      I do not think the exclusives are going to negatvely affect the line. If anything the number of exclusives are doing exactly what they are suppoded to do: get people talking about the Muppets
      I think this is a prestige line at the moment, in boutique shops (no Walmarts, Targets et al).
      To your contacts who say 'If I can't have them all, I won't get any' I say a hardy EXPLATIVE DELEATED!!! What say we take a look through their collections, and see if they have any McFarlane figures? That company does more (intentional and unintentional) variants than any other company on the planet, and they seem to get by. Heck there are 3 variations of each of the 6 Monsters in the current line. I bet all your friends have a set of those, and did not buy 3 Frankenstiens, 3 Draculas, 3 Werewolve, etc. I also bet they did not get the Randy Johnson with the Purple Jersey and Gold Glasses, the Randy Johnson with the Black Jersey and Gold Glasses, the Randy Johnson with the Black Jersey, Gold Glasses and grass stains on his pants, the Randy Johnson with the Purple Jersey and Black Glasses. No, most people buy one or two.
      Granted there are people who will drive themselves half crazy looking for every stinking variant, and good ol' Todd McF is taking full advantage of them.
      Palisades is doing the oposite, going out of there way to make these affordable for the collector. When they saw the demand for the VC (god, I hate that abbreviation:p) Beaker was greater than the supply, they MADE MORE!!
      Do You think Hasbro would make more of one specific figure because the fans wanted it? NO WAY JOSE
      I think they deserve support, and your critisism is misplaced (IMHO)
  9. bhg738

    bhg738 Active Member

    Uncleduke - First I take no offence whatsoever so no worries! You have got my feelings wrong but that is my fault. I was thinking about my post after I posted it. What I was trying to get across is not that I want the line to fail or try to proof a point but more of a case of letting people know what others are thinking.

    There were actually a large number of posts from people who had posted the same subject. I did not even have to start the thread they were there already.

    My new post was not a told you so but more of a people are thinking this way and I am concerned about the lines reputation and lonetivity being damaged!

    Let me point out these are not all my friends just simple collectors. Some are not even completists but had a feeling of being put off by the exclusives!

    I am a muppet fan but not a major one! It is therefore easy for me to make comments and also as I am a toy collector. On this board it is easy for people to stick up for the line beacuse they are to some degree Muppet Fans. People do not agree with me on many points here because of that reason. You need to go to other boards to see what other peoples oppinions are. That is what I did and without me starting anything people had the same feeling I originally had.

    Since my original post with the help of you guys I had some of my feeling irnoed out!

    One thing I must agree on and I never thought of (who knows it may have been a plan all along) is that the exclusives ARE making people talk!
  10. uncleduke

    uncleduke Well-Known Member

    Yes, I have worked to come to grips with that.

    I am a toy collector who happens to love the Muppets
    I am conversing with
    People who love the Muppets and are now Toy collectors

    So some of the posts leave me scratching my head.
    I completely disagree with you on one point. Palisades is not coming up with the club because they screwed up. The only mistake the (might have) made was under-estimating the popularity of the line.
    If you go to the Diamond Comics websight (a national distributor) they have in stock, Convention exclusives from past years (Edward Scissorhands, Vampira, some McFarlane stuff)
    So I don't think Palisades thought these would be nearly as popular as they are.
  11. uncleduke

    uncleduke Well-Known Member

    I agree, you should get offline this moment, and call the factory and have another 1500 made up for the collector's club. (joke;) ) -- lord only knows what would actually show up. :)D)
    I would offer to have them picked up and delivered, but that would put me in an akward position, she wouldn't know if I was happy to see her or the toys.....
    however they would keep the kids busy while dad was ........um, er preoccupied LOL!!
  12. bhg738

    bhg738 Active Member

    I dont think people mind exclusives etc as long as you can get them (Merman & Captain C)!

    This WAS my point. I felt the club WAS set up becuse they did not realise that doing low run figures was a mistake.

    That is my overall point - things which are produced in low numbers = problems!

    If this was due to underestimation of the popularity then so be it. Call is a mistake or a screw up but whatever they have made a realisation.

    So do we agree now?
  13. Luke

    Luke Well-Known Member

    I think this is all a bit silly. Of course Palisades have to do show exclusives - it's their way of getting industry people interested in the line and a good way to get people through the convention doors and upto the Palisades booth - perfect sense ! Yes there have been a fair few variants but then theres been a fair few shows at this time of the year - Palisades having never dealt with the Muppet fans or brand had no way of knowing how popular these would be, and having never stated they were aimed at the hardcore figure collectors, did not know if those people would take to a line like this or not, it's a million miles away from the Simpsons.

    Once they realised all this, they made the changes to offer the exclusives through the club and chase figures in with the regular crates of figures so this problem would be solved. I think they have handled it totally right.

    If the hardcore collectors strive to be 'completsts' then thats entirely upto them but whoever said being a 'completitst' should be a piece of cake ? It should be a title to strive for and you should actually have to put some effort into being one, who on earth would want to be one if everybody was ? ;-)
  14. BlueFrackle

    BlueFrackle Well-Known Member


    I just noticed that you are in England, you got no reason for not being able to get the figures.

    Ive got all that have been made by Palisades so far...

    And im in England too.

    See ya
  15. Emmy1500

    Emmy1500 Member

    I agree with most of bhg738 statements, most.

    I'm a toy collector in canada, AKA the deadzone for toy collecting.

    I collect star wars but know at least 2 dozen people up here that have given up collecting star wars because of the USA only exclusives. I have been unable to find the last wave of the figures up here and am starting to wonder how much longer I will collect the line.

    I have been very interested in these muppet figures for a while now and have already gotten the EB exclusive piggy. But I wanted to say too the poster who said it is so easy to find the exclusives, TRU canada will not be getting the tux kermit. I really wanted to get this so now if I want it, I need to find someone stateside to pick it up for me and ship it to me. This ends up making that a very expensive figure. This ticks me off because it was the one exclusive I realy wanted.

    Sometimes people on here forget that not everyone lives in the good ole US of A.

    I would have joined this collectors club but I havn't been online much lately so I missed the posting about it, whenever it was. I had just gotten back to work after a 6 month layoff and working midnights I have been unable to check in as often.

    I am going to continue collecting the regular muppet figures but if any playsets or figures(other than repaints) are given too american only stores then I will be done collecting them. I don't mind searching for them in stores up here but certainly don't have the money to go the states looking for toys.

    Well thats about it but just for an example I will list the star wars toys which weren't available at cdn retail stores. Ken will know what I'm talking about since he collects star wars.

    Y-wing , b-wing .( target exclusives) No targets in canada.

    Tie-bomber, crashed snowspeeder, new cantina sets with exclusive figures. (USA walmart exclusives)

    AT-ST with speederbike. (TRU exclusive) Not carried by TRU canada.

    Up here the last three lines of star wars toys have been discontinued early so if you wanted all the figures from that line you had to get them stateside. This was the POTF2, Episode 1 and POTJ lines, and it is starting to look like the Saga line will end up the same way.

    This has caused a lot of diehard star wars collectors to give up on the toy line. Were not talking about simple repaints here but vehicles and figures that only were sold in the US.

    I sometimes wonder why I collect toys, between the exclusives and short packs it's almost more hassle than it's worth.

    The only good thing that has happened lately as far as collecting goes is that I won a toyfair vader from the sandcrawler workshop. It will be a nice addition to my collection although I wish I had some of the stuff I listed above.

    In the end this is just a warning to pallisades that nothing turns off a toy collector than exclusive figures or playsets which they can't get.

    Learn from hasbros mistakes which by the way they are still making.

    I hope that maybe I've shed a little light on what it is like trying to collect toys here in canada.


  16. supertulip

    supertulip Active Member

    Just be glad that you aren't trying to get these in Australia, you can't even get the Muppet movie DVD's over there as far as I know let alone the Muppet figures.

    I'm lucky enough to be living in the States at the moment though so I am very aware of how good the US has it at the moment in regards to Muppet merchandise.

  17. MaxGoof

    MaxGoof Well-Known Member

    Obeying Ken's wishes, I'm gonna shut up now.

    However, I'd first like to note one thing: Mattel is making an ultra-limited exclusive He-Man figure for the San Diego Comic Con. DUN-DUN-DUN! The line is most assuredly doom-ed. :D
  18. dlphntat

    dlphntat Well-Known Member

    I don't know if I agree with this thread. I like the Muppets toys, and I have 'collected' toys for many years.
    I used to collect the Simpson's toy line, but stopped and sold every one of them.
    It wasn't because of the exclusives (though I did get sad that I couldn't get the Pin Pal Mr. Burns, radioactive Homer, or Boxing Homer) It was becasue it just became too much. More figures being released all the time, and characters that few people even cared in (Not to mention 23 variants of Homer and Bart.)
    The line continues on and seems to be doing strong, not even missing my few dollars.
    The muppet line has GREAT quality, and is wonderful! It compares really well to MacFarlane toys. (Arguably, one of the best toy companies out there. Behind Palisades, of course!) They have amazing attention to detail. They aren't the most articulated toys out there, but that's the choice you make. High articulation OR high detail. Would Kermit have been better with bending knees and elbows? I don't think so.
    MacFarlane also offers exclusives and variants, and even offers special figures through their collector club. They remain a strong to company regardless of all of this (or maybe even because of it.)
    I'm a huge Muppet fan, Kermit in particular. But as the toy line continues, I may not be buying all of the exclusives, or even all the regular figures. I'll just get what I like. (again, a lesson learned from the Simpson's toys)
    It all boils down to you. If you want an exclusive, then by all means, find a way to get it.
    If not, be happy with what you have.
  19. ResidentLilly

    ResidentLilly Well-Known Member

    Well said ALL...well said. Love this forum...
  20. CaptCrouton

    CaptCrouton Well-Known Member

    I'm not a toy collector. Toy Story 2 spoke it all for me in that respects. I buy the toys I like, leave the ones I hate, and my wallet suffers a little less. I take them out of the package immediately and let kids play with them (with some warning)

    But I thought that part of the joy of collecting is the great search to complete that collection. The fulfillment of finding that one hard to find toy. It seems to me that if you got the entire collection in one place, it would be kind of a bummer. Like the Missing Piece book by Shel Silverstein. You know.

    But I don't know. I got no axe to grind. I'll keep playing with my toys.


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