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"The Muppets" show runner exits, series to be relaunched February 2 with episodes 11-16

Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by Drtooth, Nov 4, 2015.

  1. minor muppetz

    minor muppetz Well-Known Member

    I thought of a kind of re-tool I'd like to see, though I doubt they'd go with this:

    I'd like to see a special structure that's like how the new show has been presented, and part like The Muppet Show. Each episode has three acts, not counting the cold open and credits sequences. I'd like act 1 to be them planning the next show, then have the entirety of act 2 take place during Up Late with Miss Piggy, with interviews, musical numbers, sketches, and other talents, sometimes cutting backstage. And then for act three, show what they do after the show. Maybe focus on something that went wrong, or planning for the next episode, or have the characters hang out at Rowlf's Tavern, or maybe do something that inspired them during the show.

    The pre-opening sequence and credits sequence would be anything. Maybe a pre-title sequence could be part of the previous show, that sets off the main plot and is reflected in the main show, and the end credits could be part of the next show, if the episode is about something that happened during the show.

    That format might make the "show portion" feel a little rushed, but I'd like to see it.
    Duke Remington likes this.
  2. Pig's Laundry

    Pig's Laundry Well-Known Member

    All I really want is for the show to be more like episodes 7,9 and 10 all the time. In those episodes the characters were written well, it was funny,lots of Muppet craziness,there was lots of heart,and the characters really seemed to care about each other. I would also like more wacky plots like Gonzo's plot on "Going Going Gonzo" and like Kermit finding his happy place on "Pig's in a Blackout" and less dating plots.
  3. muppetperson

    muppetperson Well-Known Member

    My thoughts on this... It was promoted heavy as being a mockumentary. It had a huge viewers but dropped significantly. This would tell me that people were interested in the mockumentary concept, but it wasn't what they were expecting. I too was imaging something else. When you think of mockumentaries, I think of reality shows where everyone is living in the one house and doing web diaries. I would love to see the lives of the muppets living in one house!
  4. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I'll give the first episodes this. I give them some credit for trying something new with the characters and trying to put them into a real world setting. The problem was the direction of the show at first. They had all the elements of a Muppet show, but didn't utilize them fully. I liked some of what they did with the characters, Newsman selling cookies on Bobo's turf, Fozzie trying to make it as a writer, even the Kermit and Piggy break up. As we've seen in later episodes, they tempered that with some wackier plotlines and Muppety elements and even some music. I don't think they need to work on much more than that. I agree though, they need to find a way to get in chickens and penguins and make the show a little bit wackier but at the heart keep the show's drama and character development. There's a way to do that, and they're incredibly close. I indeed like the idea of a sitcom format, and I feel that's when MT became really good... then it got cancelled. If only the show started like "Johnny Fiama leaves Home" and the one where Beaker goes on a Star Trek cruise, we would have had something special.

    That said, we need to remember, the first season of The Muppet Show didn't have Beaker, Pigs in Space, or a consistent Piggy performer. Shows usually tend to evolve. Audiences aren't as patient however.

    Most shows ratings dip after the first episode. The internet's favorite show, Supergirl had a similar drop in ratings after the first episode and they're calling it a win. The show didn't get a massive draw to begin with, only a modest one considering the strong competition of bad shows that don't need to do anything to gain an audience. If ABC thinks these are good enough to keep the show around for a while, that's good for the show. I'd hate for this to be a Til Death situation where it's only on because the network is forcing it down the throats of an uninterested audience. But hey, that got renewed several times over. Somehow, I wish they didn't telegraph the show's shake up. Shows retool and change all the time, albeit slightly and unannounced. Need I say Seinfeld again?
  5. Muppet Master

    Muppet Master Well-Known Member

    When I heard they would go into the personal lives of the muppets, also at home, and not just at the office, but the pitch reel showed that this would be just a workplace comedy, the ratings drop is just about random nitpicks, the voices are off, the characters aren't acting like themselves even though the only muppet movie they had seen was MCC when they were kids.
    First off The Muppets premiere rating was not modest, it was pretty big, and the most impressive sitcom start in a while, it got around the same numbers as the Blackish debut and that had a large Modern Family leadin, muppets had no leadin, it got around what The Goldbergs debut got which was fueled by then massive Agents of Shield debut, which is another show that should be brought out. That show was huge out the gate, but dropped massively every episode until it was only a decent performer, now it's barely making ends meet in season 3, and it can hardly be called much of a success. The Muppets was pretty solid, it had the #1 new comedy stuff, the pilot was rerun a lot, I'm pretty sure ABC was satisfied. Though they didn't held, ratings dropped a lot in week 2 and 3, though were still very solid and around the same as Blackish did with a Modern Family leadin. After that the ratings were dissapointing, for such a heavily marketed huge brand, but still I guess salvagable, they even gave it 3 more episodes. Though by December, it seemed more like, ABC will renew it as filler and dump it in midseason next year or just cancel it, so unless the reboot brings an audience, at the best we'll get muppets every January for 5 episodes, then dissappearing until next year. Also the hiatus that the muppets is having reminds me of Seinfeld. In it's second season, after a 5 episode season 1 in the summer, seinfeld premiered in January to low ratings, and was put on hiatus after 4 episodes. It returned in April, and ratings improved due to a new timeslot, and it was good enough for renewal, not a hit though. I think that would be good for the muppets, but even then I doubt it will happen.
  6. Pig's Laundry

    Pig's Laundry Well-Known Member

    We're only a month away from the return of the show, I hate not knowing what's going on behind the scenes. It's the same problem with Sesame Street, there are all these major changes that are being made and the head writer has left due to changes being made to the show, but we don't really know what it was that made him leave. And we might only find out what's going on when the episodes actually air.
  7. Muppet fan 123

    Muppet fan 123 Well-Known Member

    Nobody tuned in because of a mockumentary format, they tuned in because its The Muppets. These characters have mega nostalgia levels for most people and the rest of em were families expecting a cute show to watch together. Needless to say most of those people were disappointed at the first episode.

    I'll say this though: The Muppets had a huge chance to revolutionize family quality television and still be relevant for adults. It was such an easy chance and the Muppets are so well known for providing quality content for all ages that they just blew it. I feel like everyone who tuned in was looking for that and were devastated.

    The quality has improved significantly, but hopefully in 2016 in which people base their show decisions on a single episode, I hope people remember to tune in once the show returns.
    CensoredAlso, Muppy and mr3urious like this.
  8. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    The current media landscape doesn't do any form of the Muppets any favors. I've been saying since before the show was even a thing, ever since the first movie that a Muppet Show wouldn't work on current network TV. Especially one that tried to ape the format of the original. We'd at best get a mild retread of the old series with celebrities everyone would have a problem with because they're new celebrities anyway and at worst, what made MT fail. The Muppets did need a format change, and while they could very well have made something more wacky and Muppety with the format they chose, I give them all the credit in the world for not making a pallid Muppet Show '15.

    As I've been saying, even if the Muppets did exactly the same schtick they've always been doing, the audience would eventually grow bored of something they've already seen. No bigger evidence is this than MMW. It's a movie they would have naturally done anyway without relying on tying into a famously overtold story or trying to be hip and edgy and alienating the fanbase with humor they don't fit in quite with. And it was given a tepid response for being as nostalgic as possible. Half the critics whined that the human characters from the first movie weren't present when the film wasn't meant to be about them. The Muppets never fared well on network television no matter what they did. Only reason TMS got 5 seasons was that the independent production companies gave them full reign and a syndicated spot gave them an audience.

    Now, even if they could have survived a network run being a nostalgic throwback, I really wouldn't want to see another The Muppet Show unless it was something like what Roger did with the comics. Taking the show out of the theater. That's what they've been doing here and I like it, but also I want to see more drama behind the show tempered with outside the show character relationships. To me, the weaker episodes had A B and C plots about relationships and dating. Once they started cooling that off and adding more Muppet show elements, the show really started to shine. Of course, if it's one thing I really disliked about the original Muppet Show, it was how wildly successful and unsuccessful fawning over the guest star was. If the guest was a true Muppet fan and worked well with them, there was a nice symbiotic balance between guest and Muppets. But one awkward, unfunny, untalented, or cultural footnote of a guest throws that off balance. The only example of this in the show so far was the "Scooter has a crush on Chelsea Handler" episode. Most of the other guests (and thankfully mostly cameos which work better anyway) were dealt with much better.

    Now, I don't think they "blew it" in trying to be family entertainment, I just feel that, while the format has been proven to work with the characters, it was the drastic alterations to make the Muppets fit into the concept when they really didn't need to struggle to get the peg into the hole. They had a rocky, but improving, first few episodes. And, like I said before, how funny was Bunsen on his own? Not very. The round table discussion was wildly hit or miss with the gag hovering on how ignorant characters are of the subject matter, and only the guests made it watchable when the guests were good. And Wayne and Wanda and the talking houses got old fast. Talking houses especially. And the less said about the Valentines pilot, the better, though Sex and Violence was a little ahead of its time. Shows need room to breathe. It took several episodes of the original to get good, it took until MT to get shoved on The Disney Channel and a few episodes from cancellation to become interesting, and JHH never got the chance to improve because it was yanked off so fast. And for perspective, does anyone really like how Sesame Street's first season was going?
    Muppy, Duke Remington and mr3urious like this.
  9. mr3urious

    mr3urious Well-Known Member

    Don't forget the times before the Newsman became victimized by his own reports.
    Duke Remington likes this.
  10. minor muppetz

    minor muppetz Well-Known Member

    I've seen a number of people who have said that they wouldn't want this to be exactly like The Muppet Show, or that the show would fail if it was exactly like The Muppet Show. I'd like to have a "what if"/alternate reality machine to prove whether a new "Muppet Show" would succeed.

    I agree that this shouldn't be "The Muppet Show: Season 6", and I'm glad that it's not titled "The Muppet Show" (the current title is pushing it a little, though). I would have liked a show with the Muppet Theater setting but, like with this show, a lot of the show involves the planning of shows, what went wrong previously, and many scenes with the characters outside of the theater, in addition to seeing the occasional on-stage acts (maybe one or two that are somehow relevant to the plot, and one that has nothing to do with the rest of the show).

    Though considering all the complaints that we don't see more of Up Late with Miss Piggy, particularly not the sketches, I wonder if there have been such scenes and they were just cut out of the broadcasts (and we just don't know it yet). I think Muppet Wiki notes a few deleted scenes (which were shown in promos), but otherwise we don't yet know what kind of scenes have been cut.

    Back when Muppets from Space came out, I thought it would be cool if the next show was a sitcom taking place at the boarding house (I would have titled it "Muppet Boarding House"), where the characters do not primarily put on a show. The characters could from time to time get gigs or put on shows in the series, but for the most part they'd be living normal lives. But around 2007, I started wondering if it would be difficult to do a Muppet show where the characters do not put on a show at all. It worked in some of the movies and specials, but those were one-time movies and specials, not a regular weekly series with established characters doing something a lot different from what they were known for.
    Duke Remington likes this.
  11. LashHolstein

    LashHolstein Member

    I say I'm worried but in anticipation to see the new results. Personally, I hope the "reboot" is more like Going, Going, Gonzo, Pig Out, Single all the Way, and Pigs in a Black Out, rather than Too Hot For Handler and The Ex Factor. I love the concept of the show, and I actually like quite a bit of the stuff they are doing it, but there is some things to be improved.

    I'm excited for it to come back, though! Nice to see the Muppets (not the Sesame ones, of course) on TV again.
  12. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    As I've always said, a show that starts strong falters trying to capture lightning in a bottle in subsequent seasons. I mean, look at Heroes, Glee, and to some extent Desperate Housewives when it stopped being a satire of soap operas and just flat out fell into being one, cliches and all. On the other hand, you only get one chance to make a first impression, and if audiences are too impatient to give a series another shot, that's all on the first episode not satisfying enough nostalgia.

    The problem for me is I don't think a straight up Muppet Show would have been successful anyway, at least not much more successful than this one. After the first new Muppet movie, it's like people wanted another one until they got it. Something tells me even if this was a dead on remake of the Muppet Show, we'd still see some hard core nostalgic fans annoyed with the fact they're doing modern songs and have modern celebrities. And then there's the others who said how much they wanted a Muppet series on TV, but just don't bother to watch for some reason.
    Duke Remington likes this.

    DARTH MUPPET Well-Known Member

    the problem with this show is the Marketing, just come out and say It Is for adults, other then that I love It!!!!!!!! I don't notice a difference in the early episodes and the ones right before the break, Hey It's all good :)
  14. Pig's Laundry

    Pig's Laundry Well-Known Member


    DARTH MUPPET Well-Known Member

  16. LaRanaRene

    LaRanaRene Well-Known Member


    DARTH MUPPET Well-Known Member

  18. Muppy

    Muppy Well-Known Member

    Everything she said sounds amazing, and I think it will make the show 1000% times better than it already was.

    I strongly disagree. Don't be negative until you've actually seen the second half of the season. Be optimistic and let's hope she will make the show so much better.
  19. AndyWan Kenobi

    AndyWan Kenobi Well-Known Member

    I'm really optimistic about this, and I think there is a good balance to find between the old and the new. Especially considering that many talk shows DO have sketches and characters, I've felt a little disappointed that we haven't seen them as much. I have really enjoyed the show, but I feel like they haven't been using the show within a show to its full potential. I wouldn't want it to take over, but even just a little more would strike the right balance. When Gonzo and Rizzo are talking about sketches they're writing, it has the odd effect of actually making me want to see some sketches! :)
  20. Pig's Laundry

    Pig's Laundry Well-Known Member

    This sounds amazing,and the article says that Camilla's back!:)
    Oh and appearantly Kristen Newman was brought in as a writer for "Single All the Way" ,she re-wrote the Kermit and Miss Piggy scenes for that episodes.she's one of the main reasons why that episode was so good! I'm really excited for the next few episodes.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2016

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