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The things some "fans" say...

Discussion in 'Classic Muppets' started by Duke Remington, Jun 23, 2011.

  1. Duke Remington

    Duke Remington Well-Known Member

    I don't like to be grumpy or come off as such, but I do need to vent a little bit here.

    It gets really irritating when so-called fans say things that come off as sounding stupid, such as this post on the Internet Movie Database message board for "The Muppets" film:

    I sometimes feel Kermit should have been laid to rest with Jim. Kermit was about 90% Henson and 10% puppet. Even though Steve Whitmire is very talented, it's really not the same character anymore.

    Gah! It just drives me bonkers when people go about insulting recasts without thinking before talking!

    To quote a ToughPigs article, they need to "Stop being wrong".
  2. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    I don't really find that insulting. They feel Kermit worked best with a particular performer, that's all. It's their opinion and they're entitled to it.
    freddyfrills likes this.
  3. Frogpuppeteer

    Frogpuppeteer Well-Known Member

    while i get what your trying to say, i have no issue with the comment you quoted, i was just a fans well thought out and properly written idea, to them Jim was kermit and felt it respectly if Kermit and Jim where always together instead of the creation going on without the creator...theres no anger behind it like we usually see which basically is "new guy sucks 4 kurmet, Jim best 4evar" ok im stretching it a little but you know what i mean
  4. Duke Remington

    Duke Remington Well-Known Member

    I get what some of you are saying, but the part that really ticked me off as the whole "laying to rest" bit.

    To me, suggesting that a particular character should "die" with their voice actor is just plain stupid. The characters are supposed to live forever.

    It's like suggesting that Mickey Mouse should've died with Walt Disney or that Bugs Bunny should've died with Mel Blanc and so forth and so on. It's just irritating!
  5. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    They're not saying the characters shouldn't live forever. They're just not sure the post-Jim projects are really allowing the character to live, when they've been so disapointing. Whereas The Jim-era projects allow future generations to see the Muppets at their best. That IS living forever. :)
  6. MuppetsRule

    MuppetsRule Well-Known Member

    I don't get the Mel Blanc and Walt Disney comparisons. Mel Blanc voiced Bugs Bunny but didn't necessarily give Bugs his personality. Jim Henson was much more than just a voice actor for Kermit. He gave Kermit his personality and being.
  7. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Well voice actors certainly contribute to giving their characters their personalities. But I know what you mean, Jim Henson did a lot more than just voice the character.
  8. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    According to the rumors, Disney stopped doing Mickey's voice when his mother complained about how irritating Mickey sounded. Now, if that's a true story or just something animation students just say is debatable. But frankly, and I always shock the heck out of people when I say this... Wayne Allwine was the BEST Mickey there ever was! He was able to emote. I LOVED the cartoons on Mouseworks and House of Mouse and the Three Musketeers movie. I've always been a Goofy/Donald man myself, but Wayne did something with Mickey. I don't know what (besides emoting), but just... he was amazing. Never heard who he was recast with, though.

    I can't say I have a major preference on who plays Bugs, but I really thing Joe and Billy did great jobs with the characters... but I really prefer Joe when he's Daffy, Sylvester, Tweety, and Marvin. And There should be no one else to play Taz but Jim Cummings. He really surpassed Mel in characterizing him, giving him a sweet subtlety that Mel never did (but to be fair, wasn't he only in 3 cartoons until Taz-Mania?)

    With Steve's Kermit, well, I don't know how many times I can possibly tell the story or say a character is a personal thing and many never get recast as a result, but I've accepted him as Kermit for the 21+ years he's been playing him. Unless someone was born in the 1950's, most Muppet fans will have seen Steve as Kermit for most of their natural lives. It is different, and I think for the longest time he was much more comfortable as Rizzo (watch the commentary track on MFS... you'll see what I mean). I mean, with Eric we're really lucky that someone was able to jump into someone else's roles so easily... but with others, it's a slow inner evolution to have the characters fit them and have them fit the characters. They have to be what the character used to be, but make it there own. It's highly respectible.

    But I'm guessing half of them who complain still think Brian's Kermit or something...
  9. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    I wasn't born in the '50s, but I still am more used to Jim as Kermit than anyone else. ;)
  10. Frogpuppeteer

    Frogpuppeteer Well-Known Member

    i agree with you 100% he gave mickey that spark
    Mickey is now voice by Bret Iwan, who isnt bad but since there is so little work he has done its hard to really compare

    heres one video i can find, its actually not bad

  11. Oscarfan

    Oscarfan Well-Known Member

    Wow, he's spot-on!
  12. Duke Remington

    Duke Remington Well-Known Member

    That's not true, of course. The only reason why Walt stopped doing Mickey's voice regularly was because Walt became way too busy with his ever-increasing responsibilities around his studio (working on movies, TV shows, Disneyland, etc.) to do voice-over work on a full-time basis.

    I agree that Wayne was the best voice actor Mickey ever had. He brought a lot to Mickey, bringing him into the modern world while maintaining the character's integrity at the same time.

    From the bits and pieces that I've heard of Bret Iwan's Mickey voice so far, he sounds pretty good and so far has done the character justice. Even I have had a bit of trouble telling the difference between Wayne's Mickey and Bret's Mickey, even though Bret's Mickey voice is higher pitched than Wayne's.

    That seems to be one of the reasons why as well.

    The casual fans also don't realize that there's more to a character than just a voice--it's about "performance". Even though Steve's Kermit voice sounds slightly different from Jim's, it's not bad. And most of all, Steve is a great performer as well.

    If I had to choose between someone who can perfectly imitate a character's voice but has lousy acting skills and someone who sounds slightly different from the original but knows how to act, I'd choose the latter.

    I again apologize for offending anyone. I just don't like it when people bash the current Muppeteers without thinking and they should at least be happy that the characters are still going strong today, even without the original talents.
  13. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    I think they do realize that. They just prefer Jim. And perhaps they prefer the time when the Muppet projects were consistently successful.
  14. Frogpuppeteer

    Frogpuppeteer Well-Known Member

    hmm im going to agree with Duke...you ask any casual fan im sure most will say brian henson does kermit...i remember when i first went to college and someone was trying to get on my good side by saying that
  15. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    I admit for the first half of the 90's I thought Steve Whitmire's Kermit was a bit off. But by MT I fully accepted him and havent thought much of it since. Much how I accept Eric has taken over Oz' characters.

    But Jim WAS Kermit to me until I was 12, so for most my formative years they were one in the same. However, only a fool would suggest a character be nixed if the performer is no longer able to perform as some fans act like.
  16. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    But if some fans honestly prefer Jim's Kermit, that shouldn't mean they're not being a real fan. ;)
  17. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    Oh of course, I was referring to the idea that the character should be permanently retired. I don't see how truly believing that is compatible with being a Muppet fan
  18. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Well I'm not saying you have to agree or anything. But look at it from their perspective. When the Marx Brothers retired, should they have just replaced them with new comedians, but kept the same characters?
  19. Duke Remington

    Duke Remington Well-Known Member

    Now, THAT is a highly-unfair comparison. It's not the same thing.
  20. CensoredAlso

    CensoredAlso Well-Known Member

    Why? I'm willing to listen. :concern:

    (I used Gonzo because I was reminded of his conversation with Paul Simon, lol).

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