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Discussion in 'Classic Muppets' started by frogboy4, Jan 29, 2008.
Very very good point ! LMAO !
what Is IAVMMCM
A Very Merry Muppet Christmas Movie.
And I know he isn't retired, but I'd also like to see more Clifford
Thanks! I couldn't remember their names; my brain was on vacation.
Yeah, Van Neuter was absolutely strange and weird and excellent.
Well, I hope it had a fab time!
I want... Baskerville, Miss Mousey, Blue Bat Eared Frackle, Thog, and maybe Robin.
Umm... I DEFINITELY do not consider Scooter, Rowlf (not RAWLF...), or The Electric Mayhem in "retirement" I mean, they're still in nearly every major Muppet project that happens. I don't know what you guys consider to be in "retirement," but I don't see how they're retired... I consider retired to mean a character that had a major to minor role at one point, then just never returned.
Anyway, mine are...
1. Uncle Deadly
2. Beauregard (I do consider Beau to be retired because he appears occasionally, but with no lines and severely in the background.)
5. Hilda the Wardrobe Lady (WOOT! )
Here's my list of Top 5 Retired Muppets!
1. George The Janitor
2. Mildred Huxtetter
No list here, just some comments on what's been posted so far
-- Since there hasn't been much high profile major projects for some time, this is a hard one because so MANY characters besides the major leaguers hasn't had a chance to do much. Characters like Scooter and the EM have pretty much come OUT of retirement but it still feels like they're retired because the quantity of their overall appearances are so scattered...take a character like Beauregard - he's been in on screen here and there but the quantity of his contributions have been so limited. With no regular major appearances or major projects that are any fewer than three years apart, even the characters that are "employed" still seem to be "retired" (mind you this is mainly in regards to the classic cast - Sesame is a whole other ballgame).
I don't mind Gonzo taking a lead role or for that matter being a figurehead for the Muppets as i actually feel that's a very natural place for him. Kermit is the leader and the one that's been around the longest, but while he represents the glue that holds all the craziness together, Gonzo represents best in one character the zaniness that defines the Muppets - the craziness that Kermit works so hard to manage. With Jim gone and Frank having placed other priorities in his careers over the Muppets, it seemed natural for Gonzo who always seemed to be fourth in top billing (after Kermit, Piggy, Fozzie) to come more to the fore ... but i actually think this still would have naturally and organically happened even with Jim was still with us and Frank was 100% devoted to the Muppets. Gonzo had actually been working his way to the number three spot past Fozzie slowly as early as the final seasons of TMS. I have no problem with Gonzo being on the frontlines...i just wish he was being built better these days (all the Muppets are very hard to duplicate and considering how complex his design is, it's pretty dang amazing that he's maintained a very consistent look - wardrobe changes aside - throughout the late 70's-early 90's. But somewhere around the beginning of the century, he's started to go off model - fur too smooth and ruglike and eye placement too crosseyed and eyelids a bit odd...and i don't know if it was just the way the puppeteer placed his hand in it, if they were using a "reject" or if the Disney people are really messing up the build of new characters, but i recently saw some of the footage from the French Muppets TV and wow he looked HORRIBLE (i haven't seen the latest stuff on the new muppets.com yet). When Dave Goelz and Gonzo were doing their presentation here in AZ it was the Gonzo that's been used most the last few years (with the eyes a little too crossed) but that looked SO much better than that sickly looking thing in those French clips.
And yes, Elmo has been overexposedx5, but regardless of the volume of his screentime, i don't even think it's been the constant overexposure that's ruined his character, but actually the quantity of his appearances - Elmo was a very charming enduring character once upon a time. But after Tickle Me Elmo, Kevin started focusing on some of the more aspects of the character - in a lot of cases, that may be considered character development, but in this case it has been character regression. The slightly shy sweet curious-in-a-reserved-manner Elmo is more brash and in-your-face (and combined with his redesign around season 30 where he started to look like he just came out of the automatic dryer didn't help either). If Elmo had the same overexposure today with the same personality/design he had in late 80's/early 90's i would probably not mind as much.
...Now after having said all that, i would really love to see more of Floyd, Janice, and Marvin Suggs. And though i wouldn't necessarily want to see the character revived without Richard who MADE her what she was, i really wish more would have been done with Gladys the canteen lady. Hey, i guess i've now named four so i may as well mention a fifth (though these are admittedly more "characters i wish i could see more" than ones i'd "like to see out of retirement" - but i would not only like to see Annie Sue used more but (and i know i'm going to raise some people's ire here) but if Louise Gold isn't available to play her (how long has it been since she's done some Muppeteering now?), there's enough strong female Muppeteers working now that i feel could actually play her well if Louise isn't available. (Or if that's too much for some people, at least get her back on screen in the background).
I don't think another performer besides Louise for Annie Sue is asking too much at all. I think it makes sense... Annie Sue is a relatively unknown character that could be a great female presence for the characters. With Janice in the background, Yolanda, Camilla, and Miss Mousey virtually nonexistant anymore, and Spamela Hamderson being... well... Spamela Hamderson, the Muppets could really use a strong female lead. And it has been so long that there has actually been a Muppet girl who could be a rival for Miss P that I think the dynamic could really be fresh.
While accepting the need for a strong female character, one who could rival Piggy, I don't think Annie Sue would be a good choice. Bring Spamela to the fore maybe. Or develope a new character to take on the role.
I think there are certain characters, and Annie Sue is very one of them, whose whole charaterisation is so much an extension of their original performer, that I think they should stay in the background, unless their original performer is available to do them. I don't mind them being present in non-speaking background roles but to bring them back as characters, well they just wouldn't be what they were and I think it would spoil them. Other characters in this cannon I think include: Floyd, and even Fozzie. I think it would have been better for Eric Jacobson to develop his own comedian character as a replacement for Fozzie. In a way although I didn't particularly take to Spamela, I did like the way they had tried to develop a new character to fill the role as Piggy's rival.
By all means examine characters who were very minor in the good old days, especially ones not specifically associated with any one performer, and see if they could be developed further. But I'd rather see The Muppets develop completely new characters than bring older ones out of retirement.
The only exception to this is Kermit, partly because he is such an icon, and largely because Steve Whitmire really does a good job with him. But other than that I think many of the older characters (and that includes Annie Sue) were of their time. Things have moved on since the days of The Muppet Show.
My Top Five
Okahhh, I had some hard choices so this is three top fives
some of these may be before some of everybody's time, so here we go.
Sam and Friends
2. Harry the Hipster
3. Professor Madcliffe
1. Beautiful Day Monster
2. Chicago the Lion
4. Professor Hastings (cause he's so boring, it's funny)
5. Roosevelt Franklin
The Muppet Show
1. Geroge The Janitor
2. Annie Sue
3. Rowlf The Dog (even though he was used in recent
movies, he was rarely used like he was in the original 3 movies.)
5. The Clodhoppers (cause they dance like me "Watch It!" )
"egad I seem to forget someone......"
1. Hilda the Waldrobe lady
2. Wayne and Wanda
3. Sweetums and Robin (too cute for words)
5. Annie Sue Pig (Piggy could do with the competition)
My list of retired Muppets
Here's a list of my Top 5 retired Muppets.
3. Lenny the Lizard
2. Louis Kazagger
1. The Gills Brothers
5. Ethel Mermaid
Haha, as a little kid, before I knew who Merman was, I thought that maybe Ethel Mermaid was a joke on Ethel Mertz from I Love Lucy!
Ok, here's my list (In any random order, including character bunches).....
- The Electric Mayhem- Gotta love 'em. I know that Jerry's been sick lately, so Floyd may be out, but I have to say, "Can You Picture That?" is the only song that can get me out of any bad mood. They need a good gig.
-Ernie and Bert- Since Jim's passing and Frank's leaving, I've felt (No pun intended) that we've been in short supply of new E&B clips. Especially recently. Don't get me wrong, I love classic bits appearing in the shows but I think it's time to get my old pals back together.
-The Frackles- As my favorite group of Muppets, I feel that they should at least be recycled into new random characters like they used to be. An occational appearence wouldn't kill anyone.
-Wayne and Wanda- Lol, they're just so funny. I can't resist a slight chuckle whenever I see the duo's performance get wrecked onstage.
-Mildred- Just something about her makes her one of my retired fav's.... not sure what though, lol.
Separate names with a comma.