Two different views it seems...

beaker

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Does it bug anyone else when speaking int he context of the 'Muppets' people seem to only have one thing on their mind: "Nostalgia". Sad sad sad. To me the Muppets are far from nostalgia, so its sad to see that angle get played out. Perhaps thats why I just stick to MC and TP. A lot of other sites are only filled with 'Hey I remember the Muppets when I was a kid...who was that furry blue guy?' or 'Hey, I remember Muppet Babies!'

To me the Muppets are beyond timeless...first, and last, and always...the past, present and future. Now I know theyre on this whole 25th annv kick(which is odd, because the merchandising and PR campaign on Dennys, etc makes it sound like theyre 25 years old...try half a century!) but even without the TMS commenoration most people just think of Muppets as 'yesterdayland'. thats why on other genre forums youll find uninformed comments like 'puppets are old news, its all about cgi'. Obviously theyve never met a Muppet irl.

It just bugs the crud out of me to keep seeing th eMuppets percieved as purely nostalgia...KSY sure doesnt help, but Im hoping the upcoming Fox show finally puts them on the current map. It bothers me simpsons and other sites around genre/sci fi/etc shows that have only been around a decade have countless legions of fans, when JHC related stuff...the company responsible for the show that raised virtually everyone on the face of America and beyond(sesame), the company behind
the once most popular show on tv(TMS), and the company behind effects for some of the biggest films of all time(creature shop) hardly gets any major attention. Perhaps JHC figure of 1000 hardcore fans is right...sad.

Heck, they even removed the JH trademark signature from "Farscape", perhaps so sci fi fans dont think of it as "Muppets in space". A lot of this percieved notion might be due to JHC current *ahem*..."situation" and choices. But goodness,
if they can barely fill a small auditorium in the LA area for a rare con where ya actually can see the stars in person(unlike a lot of Trek and Star Wars cons) what does that say about the state of the modern Muppet fan love?

Im really hoping starting at the beginning of next year, something...something finally rectifies this 'nostalgic' perception. Lets get back to the glory days where the Muppets are percieved as current and hip, and not some "80's nostalgia".
Heres hoping to 2003 finally being the renniassaince of Muppetdom we fans have so long awaited for....and here's to an insane turnout at Muppetfest 2003!
 

Joggy

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Originally posted by beaker
Lets get back to the glory days where the Muppets are percieved as current and hip, and not some "80's nostalgia".
Yeah, and while we do, let's get back to the sixties where people wearing bandanas, shades, flowers and feather boas and singing about peace all day were current and hip! LOL That's the thing with hip. Nothing stays hip for a longer period of time. Things change. We're no longer in the 80's.

The Muppets were typical products of the 70's and maybe even 80's. I think it was a good choice for Jim to stop it after five glorious years. If they wouldn't, the audience would have been sick of them. Which is what's happening right now.

They did try to get them back to being "hip". NUMEROUS times. They tried a typical 80's TV station in JHH; didn't work. Tried a 90's studio with a rasta host and bad sitcom humor; didn't work. Tried a Science Fiction ripoff; didn't work. Just because we fans like them doesn't mean the world wants to see them all over the place again.
 

FellowWLover

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Originally posted by beaker

It just bugs the crud out of me to keep seeing th eMuppets percieved as purely nostalgia...KSY sure doesnt help...
Have you even *seen* KSY yet?
 

Luke

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Hey Cory,

Sssshhh ! Muppets Need Money, Nostalgia Boom, 25th Anniversary Opportunity = Cash Register Go Ding Ding Ding !

People do think of the Muppets as nostalgia, they were a product of the 70's - they ARE nostalgia. Thats not to say that they can't also be evergreen and continue to be around but they're never gonna be the latest thing, and we shouldn't want them to be - they have a great history we should be proud of. The reason why it seems so heavy a 'nostalgia' thing right now is because Henson are going all out this year to capitalise on 'Nostalgia' - thats the whole point of this 25th anniversary campaign, and Palisades and Sideshow being asked to make merchandise as close to the 70's show as possible. Nostalgia makes money right now and JHC has had the perfect opportunity to use all this - they need money fast, and if they don't get it, any funding for new projects that might aim them at the 'current' market won't be there. Where do you think they're gonna get the money to pay Team Todd to produce this Fox show .... EMTV ? Ha Ha Haaaa !!

It seems there are two kinds of opinion at Henson right now - those who want to recapture the old Muppet Show spirit and keep with the traditional way of doing things, and they'll be showing that side with the christmas movie which fans are absolutely gonna love. Then there's those who feel it's time to move on, past approaches haven't worked, so they want to do something really dramatic and 'edgy' to make the brand a bit more like 'The Simpsons". They are the dudes who are hedging their bets on the new Fox show being the way to go forward. Personally i think they will probably both end up compromising and the new Fox show won't be as dramatic a change as you might think, sure i can see a lot more slapstick style 'Pepe' characters and few more maturer jokes but i wouldn't be expecting a total revamp of the format because one of the reasons the older (say 25-35) age group watch the Muppets is because they remember them from their childhood and also want to see that aspect. Keeping the Muppets 'alive' will depend very much on Henson managing to attract both the new teen audiences, as well as keeping those watching from a nostalgic point of view.
 

Ernie101

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Yeah today if you say you like the muppets people will pick on you! THATS WHY WE LOVE HERE!!!!!!!!!
 

beaker

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Luke: >>>Then there's those who feel it's time to move on, past approaches haven't worked, so they want to do something really dramatic and 'edgy' to make the brand a bit more like 'The Simpsons". <<<

Well I find The Simpsons about as edgy as a sock, but I would be in the second line of thought. Who wants a throwback to yesteryear? I'd throw up at the thought of braodway style vaudville skits again.

Luke: >>>sure i can see a lot more slapstick style 'Pepe' characters and few more maturer jokes but i wouldn't be expecting a total revamp of the format because one of the reasons the older (say 25-35) age group watch the Muppets is because they remember them from their childhood and also want to see that aspect.<<<

Again, whats with trying to keep the nostalgia thing, the way 'we remember'???

Luke:>>>People do think of the Muppets as nostalgia, they were a product of the 70's - they ARE nostalgia<<<

They really ought to teach Muppets 101...The Muppet shave been around for nearly 50 years, thats half a century. A product of the 70's...ok, but thats focusing on TMS. To me the Muppets are everything from Chicken Liver circa 1955 to Mo Frackle circa 2002.
From Wembley and Yorrick to Treelo and yes Big Bag.

I see no line between Sesame, Muppet show, Bear, Fraggles, etc. These are just divided by company and formal boundaries. The only exception being Creature Shop, as that is not Muppets.

But again, the reason for this post...it seems not just the marketing, but a lot of fans seem to be in this nostalgia only trip...
remenescing like they hope the new Muppet Show is akin to the 76' era one. Why? I always love how th eMuppets are reinventing themselves...the JHH is my fave incarnation of th eMuppet Show believe it or not.
 

Joggy

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Originally posted by beaker

But again, the reason for this post...it seems not just the marketing, but a lot of fans seem to be in this nostalgia only trip...
remenescing like they hope the new Muppet Show is akin to the 76' era one. Why? I always love how th eMuppets are reinventing themselves...the JHH is my fave incarnation of th eMuppet Show believe it or not.
The thing is, while we fans really like the roles of the new characters in this series, non-fans may not. One of the biggest criticisms about Kermit's Swamp Years is that Piggy and Fozzie are not featured. Same goes for JHH (with a few minor exceptions).

Try asking a random person-on-the-street if they know the Muppets. "Ah yes!" they say (I hope). And then they hum the Muppet Show theme. The MUPPET SHOW theme. From the '76 series. And if they're talking about Statler and Waldorf, they're always known as "the two old men in the THEATRE BOX". Not "The two old men in the old fools' home" or "The two old men who sit poolside in Muppets Tonight". Muppets is Pigs In Space, the Swedish Chef (when did he last appear besides that cameo in the Weezer clip? The MTV Awards in 2000! His personality even died in JHH already when he had that cockroach cohost).

Conclusion: The Muppet Show was the biggest hit for the classic Muppet characters. You thought Sam and Friends was? On that local TV station in Washington? Or the 20 episodes of Ed Sullivan they appeared in during three years? Nope. The Muppets will always be connected to THE Muppet Show... Sadly...
 

beaker

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>>>Try asking a random person-on-the-street if they know the Muppets. "Ah yes!" they say (I hope). And then they hum the Muppet Show theme. The MUPPET SHOW theme. From the '76 series. And if they're talking about Statler and Waldorf, they're always known as "the two old men in the THEATRE BOX"<<<

I think you misunderstood my thought...of course I know most people associate the Muppet gang with TMS... I just find it a bit, I dunno...lame that the Muppets are tied to just one thing. But to calrify what ya said...ask some people if they remember the Muppets and they'll automatically think of 'Sesame Street'. A lot would be vastly more familair with Sesame than the Muppet Show. So in essense its two shows that would come to mind to people. A little more poking might find people who remember Fraggle Rock.

But to my original point...in marketing(beyond the 25th annv),
beyond what people's perception is, or on online forums...it just bugs me most people outside(And sometimes in) the Muppet online circles think of the Muppets as purley 'nostalgic', something of the old past. Nothing could be farther from the reality.
Thats why next year is so important.
 

gymkatarules

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I've found I don't get picked on for borderline obsessing over the Muppets. People are always like, "Oh, yeah, man I still love Sesame Street" or "Animal is the best!" or whatever. The characters are timeless, no matter who's doing the voice, even. The only problem is that most people don't see the art behind it all. The sheer craft and creativity. They see Elmo.

-Chris
 
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