1. Welcome to the Muppet Central Forum!
    You are viewing our forum as a guest. Join our free community to post topics and start private conversations. Please contact us if you need help with registration or your account login.

  2. Sesame Street Season 48
    Sesame Street's 48th season officially began Saturday November 18 on HBO. After you see the new episodes, post here and let us know your thoughts.

Video: "The Muppets" Official ABC Trailer

Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by Phillip, May 12, 2015.

  1. jvcarroll

    jvcarroll Well-Known Member

    I think it would be best for ABC to give the Muppets a clean slate and let the show speak for itself. :)
     
  2. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    Well you and I have always disagreed on this somewhat. Yes, there has always been junk on TV. And I agree with you that networks don't typical air old shows like that. But I do think things have gotten worse in recent years. And no, not just because I'm an entitled millennial. ;)

    Anyways, you go back to the main topic of the trailer. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2015
  3. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Why don't major networks run old programming?

    Simple.

    They don't have to. End of story.

    Major networks have never now nor ever reran anything once it was dropped from the network. That's what local syndication was for. I can agree with you on that, sure. I HATE what syndication became in the past 20 years, and don't get why we need so many sassy judges and Maury Povich essentially phoning it in. THAT'S where reruns should be. They aren't. It sucks, but a major network at prime time rerunning an old series? That's ridiculous. If NBC isn't desperate to show Friends or some other past success, why would any network? Sounds like nostalgic entitlement no matter how you spin it.
     
    Duke Remington likes this.
  4. jvcarroll

    jvcarroll Well-Known Member

    I disagree. Television has never been better, but it's now on Netflix and Amazon Prime, not the networks. :p
     
    Duke Remington likes this.
  5. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    I can only partially agree with that and I also find that a smidge elitist. There are some things on regular network programming that are matter of taste at worst. NBC still doesn't know what the heck it's doing, and shooed off cult hits that, while only having a small audience, are at least shows consistently enjoyed. CBS is stuck in a rut of appealing to older audiences that don't get what computers do and love to see terrorist as the current Snidley Whiplash-esque big bad. But I'll give ABC credit for its sitcom line up. While I'm disappointed about some of the cancellations last year, they've hit a stride with enjoyable family sitcoms. Probably their best mainstream hits since the 90's. Their early 2000 era sitcom line up was saccharine, inane, and yes, even overly conservative in some aspects (According to Jim...yeech). But somehow, they've managed to stumble into some very good shows, if some lasted a little longer than they should.

    And let's not count cable out. There's some very good things there too. My life has improved greatly when I started getting FX and AMC.

    And the thing is, TV is getting better. We're just not noticing it. Reality shows, with the exception of unfortunate staples, are losing their stronghold and tasteless programming like Utopia and The Briefcase are laughing stocks to even the lowest of common denominators and have disappeared as quickly as they arrived. Some of the worst sitcoms of the past couple years also died a quick death. And say what you will about the rise of Super Hero programming. Less CSI wanna bes and less computer hackers fighting terrorists (outside of CBS that is). Yeah, I still hate Syndication's bottomless pit of sassy judges and talk shows that were barely relevant in the 90's. I despise the death of Saturday Morning Cartoons only to be replaced with Litton's library of boring. Not to mention Nick and Disney's endless barrage of terrible kid coms. If there's one thing I'll agree aren't as good as they used to be, it's that... and frankly I didn't like most of them in the first place.

    But I don't think that's the point being made. There are those who are completely baffled by the concept of television and movies constantly having to be made and feel that someone "nailed" it and we should never have anything ever again because something was so perfect, and therefore nothing's going to compare to it. Added to the fact the feeling things need to be compared to something. Those who think that the only thing on television should be non-stop reruns of Seinfeld or Mary Tyler Moore or something. There's something that's just so childish and stubborn about it. We need to remember matter of taste is not quality. There's a lot of stuff I love that I didn't think I'd even like and I'm glad I got into it. Refusing things isn't any fun. I love Darkwing Duck with all my heart, but I'm not going to stop watching cartoons because everything else is not Darkwing Duck.
     
    Duke Remington and mr3urious like this.
  6. Ladywarrior

    Ladywarrior Well-Known Member

    all I did was make an of handed statement and it devolved into this? I'm sorry I said anything. If this wasn't due to what I said I am sorry for sounding like a huge headed smarty pants.
     
  7. heralde

    heralde Well-Known Member

    Again, you said nothing wrong and nothing's devolved. DrTooth and I get into these debates a lot, we're not arguing. Much, lol.
     
  8. Ladywarrior

    Ladywarrior Well-Known Member

    All right... and no I don't think Muppet are going to the devil it was a figure of speech. It would just feel weird to hear them saying certain words, that's all. I just hope they do a good job with this show. It would be disappointing if they don't. Also what I meant about the language thing is children watch and love Muppet and this show will likely attract children. I am just kinda worried that if they do something like that, and I am not saying they will parents will complain about it. I know Muppets was always intended for an adult audience as sesame street is centered to children but children DO watch and enjoy Muppets and a lot of us grew up with them. Am I making sense?
     
    LeahXZoot4Evur and heralde like this.
  9. jvcarroll

    jvcarroll Well-Known Member

    It really doesn't make sense because there's no evidence that they'd use language any different than they have in Jim's day or now and ABC's comedy shows like Modern Family and Fresh Off the Boat don't either.
     
    Duke Remington likes this.
  10. Ladywarrior

    Ladywarrior Well-Known Member

    I mean certain words the bigger stuff, know what I mean? I feel like I'm digging my own grave here. *dig dig dig*
     
    jvcarroll likes this.
  11. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Essentially what I was saying and the debate moved away from that anyway. I do not expect this to be the level of Greg the Bunny in terms of adult puppet entertainment. Early to mid-Simpsons at worst. And remember, the Simpsons always had merchandising and marketing for kids from its first full half hour inception (The Christmas "first" episode was made into a children's book) to today (Lego among other things. And it's definitely a kid friendly license as there's no Moe's Tavern playset or Moe and Barney figures in the blind bags, avoiding their alcohol references)
     
    Duke Remington likes this.
  12. jvcarroll

    jvcarroll Well-Known Member

    Haha. It sounds that way. I know as fans we worry so much about our beloved characters, but from the reports I've heard - this is the real deal. After so much time, they seem to have found their voice and a relevance. Their wildness is driving the show rather than gimmicks driving their humor. At least that's how it seems to me. So I don't think there's need to worry. 81 days left.
     
    Duke Remington likes this.
  13. muppetlover123

    muppetlover123 Well-Known Member

    Well here's a new picture from the show. The set of the TV show that The Muppets put on in the series, "Up Late With Miss Piggy".


    [​IMG]
     
  14. Muppetboy09

    Muppetboy09 Well-Known Member

  15. Gorgon Heap

    Gorgon Heap Active Member

    To reference some things already said, I also never thought of TMS as a parody, but as a legitimate variety show crossed with a backstage sitcom. You might call it a hybrid variety show / sitcom.

    In my opinion, the last few attempts to revive the Muppets on TV haven't worked in part because they were trying to make a show that was TMS but wasn't TMS. TMS was so successful that they tried to keep the basic formula that made it successful (variety show with sitcom elements to enrich the characters) but update it and "make it more modern", which never quite worked, either on JHH or MT.

    To my mind, this left them with two alternatives: either revive TMS straight-up, with the same set, format, and anything else they can replicate; or, don't try to preserve the TMS format at all and go in the other direction. The latter seems to be what they're after, and I admire that.

    As to the how it's looking so far, I have to be the voice of dissent: I did not like the trailer.

    Simplifying Miss Piggy's selfishness to the point that she no longer remembers the names of any of her co-stars, save Kermit, is changing the character. Yes, they're not exactly canon and such a change is not exactly "retconning" (retroactive continuity), but it is changing the character for the sake of a (cheap) joke. And if you have to change the character to make the joke work, then the joke doesn't work. Prady's other baby, TBBT, has been accused of this kind of oversimplification of character increasingly in recent years, from making harshness Bernadette's #1 new trait to reducing both of Raj's girlfriends to one dominant character trait and nothing else (Lucy is socially awkward, Emily is scary; and that's the sole basis of characterization with no attempt at depth or complexity).

    Then there's the "adult" content. Joking that the band was on drugs: too easy. Offending Fozzie with the "does a bear s--t in the woods" line: can't even spell out the basis of that one here. Kermit being attracted to pigs (something he's never admitted before) and Piggy's rival nibbling on a phallic symbol (the pencil). It all just seems like cheap, easy jokes from here, going for the lowest common denominator without much creativity or attempt to make the humor intelligent.

    I did appreciate the "bacon-wrapped ****-on-earth" line, but that's about it.

    We'll see.

    David "Gorgon Heap" Ebersole
     
    heralde likes this.
  16. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    Hear hear! The Muppets need to do something so smart and sophisticated that no one on Earth, even the writers get the joke, and alienate every potential audience possible! Then we can have the show replaced with what really deserves to be on television, yet another freaking singing competition no one actually likes.
     
    Duke Remington likes this.
  17. Ladywarrior

    Ladywarrior Well-Known Member

    wait a second... they are actually going to imply the electric mayhem were on drugs? seriously?! I never saw any indication ANY of the mayhem were stoners. Yeah they wear weird clothing and stuff but they are "hip" you can be "hip" without being weed whackers.
    maybe with the miss piggy thing she's just joking around. I mean she knew everyone's names in all the other media. Maybe she was pretending to not know them t get under kermit's skin. That would be pretty funny if she did it ON PURPOSE and then slips up later and kermit calls her out on it and she'd be like "I was just doing it to bug you". XD
    By the way.. if they did anything questionable wouldn't Sam the eagle resident censor bar make a big deal about it?
     
  18. jvcarroll

    jvcarroll Well-Known Member

    Every fan seems to see things differently. I appreciate your take on the show's aim, but I can't quite wrap my brain around much of the criticism. There's been a heavy push to instill a puritanical streak in the Muppets that was never there back in the classic days of the Muppet Show.

    Muppet Cannon:
    Eeep! I guess some fans seem to take the writing too literally and the Muppets too seriously. It has been my understanding that nothing is really cannon. Nothing! Besides, the Muppets are best when they're free-form and without limits.

    But if we're going literal here:
    It's obvious to me that Miss Piggy knows the names of most of her Muppet castmates. She's clearly being passive aggressive by conveniently forgetting their names in order to make it seem as if she doesn't need them. It's typical diva behavior from her. How in the world could fans see that any other way?

    Humor:
    Who are we kidding? The Muppets have gone for high brow jokes, subtle jokes and cheap jokes. They are fuzzy anarchy personified and will do almost anything (within character) to get a laugh. Muppets 101.

    Adult-themed References:
    Jim had no problem with sly Mayhem drug references or sexual innuendo. Some of these were subtle, some of them were not at all.

    I guess all of us, in our enthusiasm, want to see the Muppets we remember reflected in the new show. I know we all see things differently. My question is, are we really remembering things as they were?
     
  19. Ladywarrior

    Ladywarrior Well-Known Member

    Like I said piggy is probably doing the "who are those guys" thing to mess with everyone.
     
  20. Drtooth

    Drtooth Well-Known Member

    To be perfectly honest, I was kinda busting that guy's chops.

    I could do that whole thing where I mention some cringeworthy "jokes" from before the Disney sale (the Nipple joke being left in MWO, the Crock Hunter parody in VMX) or even Jim's time (That Oklahoma/Yokohama bit was disturbingly racist for a Muppet production), but in the end it means nothing. I'll tell it out straight.

    There is going to be discontent because that's how things are. No matter how hard the more positive fans are going to try to convince the Geewunners, there's essentially holding the first three Muppet Movies and original Muppet Show on a pedestal and feel that anything of lesser quality or different humor is automatically an insult or just not worth their time. I find the extreme negativity just as foolish as the extreme optimism. I feel that when it comes to any announced project of any license, unless their are horrid red flags, the key is optimism healthily tempered with concern. Anything can go either way. Going in with a purely positive attitude can lead to either high standards being blown away or disappointment, going in with a negative one can lead to either being pleasantly surprised or picking out the most negative aspects and blowing them out of proportion. And then there's the guy who picks everything apart when it's all said and done because they need to feel superior in their negative attitudes (you know, because automatically calling everything crap is somehow artistic and intelligent), and then everyone just buys into that negativity as a result. Which leads me to..

    We want this to be successful. Both on the level of ratings success and especially that the majority of Muppet Fans have high positives about it. Obviously, this is a fragile license for Disney. Not so fragile that they dumped them after MMW entirely, but still, pretty fragile. Disney by all means doesn't have to market anything beyond Frozen, Preschool shows, Pixar, Star Wars and Marvel. If we want to keep rolling in DVD's and T-shirts, we have to root for this series' success. Otherwise it's all Frozen and Planes. But above that, you know how everyone's constantly whining about reboots and remakes? I don't get it, because usually those sort of things get newer viewers into the older franchises, thus reviving the classics as much as the newer productions. Why complain about how a series is going to overtake the original when that was never the case, and usually the original versions get more popular as a result. Say what you will about the Star trek movies, they did get those who wouldn't have been interested in the franchise in the first place into the originals. And that's going the same for Muppets. Heck, maybe if this is successful enough, we'll actually GET the 4th and 5th season of the original show on DVD or Netflix.
     
    Duke Remington and minor muppetz like this.

Share This Page