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Oh if the movie brings in all the Segal/Apatow type crowds, that'd be very very cool. The fact it has the hipness going for it makes it light years ahead of what MFS had going for it

Oh man, I've been asking that SAME question on here since 1998

Its a very valid point. Whenever I wear Muppet stuff, people always smile or come up and say how they love it. But yeah, actual fans...that's very hard to say. Disney is going to need to really push the youth/college angle harder with youtube and other stuff as well as the family marketing.

I do remember in 2008 across select theaters, United Artists showed Muppets Take Manhattan as part of their free family film thing. I remember going to the one they had near me, and they filled every seat for both showings in three different theater rooms at the local UA. And it was two days, so thats a lot of kids who got to experience what I go to in 1984. And I tell ya, all these years later MTM on the big screen held their attention and is still just as magical. Not sure MFS would have commanded the same awe.

But yeah, its very hard to say what the average movie goer will think in a year; but if we know the Disney marketing machine...
Still, the perception of Muppets as "nostalgic/old stuff/kiddy stuff from the past" needs to be done away with.

Well let's look at all the Muppet films that have come out:

Muppet Movie

Great Muppet Caper

The Muppets Take Manhattan

Muppet Christmas Carol

Muppet Treasure Island

Muppets From Space

A Very Muppet Christmas Movie

Kermit Swamp Years

Muppet Wizard of Oz

Letters To Santa

Not including Sesame films(Dont Eat The Pictures, Follow That Bird and Elmo In Grouchland), there's been ten Muppet movies.

Now we can dismiss Kermit Swamp Years as that's more of a side story. TMM is a kind of origins film, so the big cast musical numbers dont come to later...tho its arguably the most magical and awe inspiring of all Muppet films. GMC and TMM and MFS have the big openers. AVMMCM takes awhile for the big number,
however, Letters to Santa pretty much right away has that epic fun Postal service number.

And as far as focus, only the three "classic reinterpretations" dont have the Muppets focused throughout the film(aside from the "heaven" scenes in AVMMCM)

There are, however, a LOT of people in the entertainment business that are total fans. That show, Chowder... dude that created that was a fan, there was a Doozer in an episode. Family Guy had a bunch of Muppet cutscenes for a while. Seems like almost everyone on Cartoon Network for a while had references to them here and there. Wasn't the guy who created Dexter's Lab going to be the director of Dark Crystal 2 like 10 years ago when they announced it but couldn't get it off the ground?

If this new movie includes Frank Oz, Dave Goelz, Jerry Nelson and Steve Whitmire, I will be very, very happy. Throw in a Caroll Spinney cameo...I will be over the moon!

You know, besides the director, I think that one of the other issues with MFS is that people had no idea who Pepe was.

Muppets Tonight was sort of under the radar for a lot of folks, and I don't think most people were famiar with who Pepe was, and yet this was his first movie, and he was featured a lot in the film.

The way I'd say it is that MFS helped make Pepe a star. He's such an easy character to embrace right out of the gate. In my estimation, Pepe is the saving grace of MFS for most fans and normal people alike.

I think successful Muppet movies need the juxtaposition of both the spectacular and the pedestrian. All spectacle was abandoned in MFS after the opening number and wasn’t seen again until the somewhat lack-luster alien finale. I think a musical number in the middle of the film could have given the movie a major facelift despite its other pacing faults. Just two and a half minutes of some high-energy music. Maybe the band playing a song intercut with scenes of the rest of the Muppet gang piling on the bus and starting their mission. Or something like that. The story would still be weak, but the energy would have been much more Muppety! It’s cool to see Kermit paint the house, but there’s got to be something else going on somewhere to balance that out. This director just didn’t get the Muppets…at all. But rumors are the production was plagued with problems and director changes.

Just my opinion. MFS was the most uneven of all the theatrical Muppet movies and yanked from theaters so very quickly. It's like they all showed up, but didn't really put on a show. I was perplexed. MFS is why there would be a twelve and a half year gap between theatrical Muppet films! The fact that the first things I heard about Segel's film were "songs" and "putting on a show" gives me high hopes. However, I won't mind if they want to throw in a scene of Crazy Harry unclogging a sink too.

When it comes down to Muppets From Space, there are a few things they got right:

• The Muppets were playing themselves for the first film since MTM/ it was not another classic retelling
• Some of the concepts were solid... Gonzo questioning his identity, the Muppets living in a run down board house, Bunsen and Beaker acting similar to Q from James Bond, Piggy as a news reporter
• The movie had a very good outlet for newer characters mingling with old
• The opening number, scenes from the lab, and even the party were pretty strong
• Jeffery Tambor and Bobo had a amazing chemistry

Of course, the things that it had going against itself:

• The lack of original music, replacing msuci numbers with an irrelevant funk soundtrack (not that there's anything wrong with Funk, heavens no!)
• the emptiness of the house after the initial "brick house" number. Lemme guess, everyone BUT Kermit, Fozzie, Pepe and Clifford have jobs.
• Too many Frank Oz characters in a single scene (same problem I had with Rizzo in LTS). Especially when everything was looped dialogue.
• anything that further's Rob Schnider's career just... whoever put him in that movie needs to be barred from anything Muppety ever again. Unless he's someone principle. Rob however, should be barred from EVERYTHING.
• And of course a passionless (or just incompetent) director ruining some of the best concepts that would have made the movie really strong

Though, I will say it's more watchable than Oz, which was a train wreck.

I liked Oz better. At least it kind of held true to the original story and had some original songs. Most people also forget that the DVD is the extended version so it takes longer for Kermit and the gang to show up in that version. I think Thatcher is absolutely great with Muppets, but it was clear he wanted to make a film instead of a televsion special and that caused Oz to seem watered down and missing some elements. There was so much potential that probably just got lost somewhere in the Henson-to-Disney shuffle.

Still, I prefer my Muppets being Muppets and not playing alternate characters.

I think that's the problem right there. If it had a longer time in development, it wouldn't have felt so uneven. I still haven't seen the DVD cut, but I still wonder if I even want to bother getting it. had it been better cast, better filmed, and just had a more even flow to it , maybe it would have been better. Though, I still think that the fact there was a line miles long of potential other Muppet films that honestly were more deserving of being made (that Hamlet parody sounded particularly fun) also had a dent in the film. That said, there is NO forgiving the headache inducing colors and tilted camera angles. If I wanted to see Muppets 1960's Batman, I'd watch Muppet's 1960's Batman. At least 1960's Batman made the kaleidoscope of colors and tilted angles WORK.

Other than that, I just don't care much for the idea of Muppet classic retelling based films, other than the Hamlet one I mentioned, of course... but wasn't the main plot basically the characters stumbling into that situation? The comics manage to make them work on a better level, but that's mainly because they have the luxury of having an all Muppet cast and casting any Muppets in those roles. MCC seemed to not be able to help it. Too many characters weren't recast at the time. Ideally, the 3 ghosts could have been famous Muppets instead of new characters (Animal would have been FUNNY as the Ghost of the Future... Sweetums would have been choice for Christmas Present)... and had Scooter been recast at that point, he would have been perfect as the nephew.

I'm sure the presence less than enough Muppets in those films are a concern for the film writers.... I have to wrap this up quickly...

Yeah Pepe really makes MFS, and is one of the things that still stand out in my mind. It's really his first solo outing we see and break up role post MT. To me MFS is a magical film until about 20-25 minutes in. To me it made no sense to open with this fun zany muppet sing a long set of chaos and fun, and then we don't really see that again. The Hulk Hogan and Dawson's creek cameo just further put the nail in the coffin. But for what its worth MFS to has a lot of great stuff that helped shape the modern Muppets.

Also, MFS had the unfortunate task of competing in the insanely populated 1999 summer movie season(matrix, wild wild west, american pie, american beauty, eyes wide shut, star wars the phantom menace, etc) Also, it came at the end of a decade where the publics perception was that the muppets ended with the passing of JH

I think it's safe to say that the Muppets were pretty under the radar after Jim's passing. "The Muppets are still around?" I heard people say in the 90's and 2000's, I still hear that sometimes when I mention the upcoming movie. I LOVE MFS all the way until it gets into the goofy government plot stuff, though I love Bobo in anything he does. The first 20 minutes of MFS is just golden to me.

I liked your MFS pros and cons, but for me the numero uno problem of the film is the unevenness. I loved the funk opening with brick house, totally fit. But some original songs interlaced throughout would have been better. But the wildly uneven and empty feeling would be my cons with it.

Sadly, I have to say Oz is my least favorite thing the Muppets have ever done in 55 years, even above KSY. The idea of sitting through an "extended cut" makes me shudder. And I love Kirk, just feel it's good he's passing the torch a bit.

Now LTS, that is a film that felt heavily truncated. It looks like a theatrical film, nothing like a tv special...but sadly it feels more truncated and cut short than anything I've seen in the modern era of the Muppets. An extended cut by 30 minutes would have really done wonders for it. Im with ya tho, on the "classic retelling" stuff.

Somehow, you could edit the thing down to a half hour, and I'm sure it would still play very well. Still... I wish they filmed the entire thing and just cut stuff out. Imagine a Donner cut (or a Joey cut) of the film with the REAL ending and stuff like that.


Seriously... Muppets checking mail, Muppets being board and watching TV, Muppets Mowing the Lawn.... all this from the "genius" behind Garfield with a CGI Garfield and live action animals... and Chipmunks who love toaster waffles for some reason.

Edit:

LTS needed 3 things to be perfect. 1) More time in development 2) a longer running time (I bet NBC was behind that) and 3) the gang TOTALLY should have popped up in Santa's workshop waiting for Kermit.

Not to get too off subject, but this is a very broad-stroked overview of a more Muppety path for MFS. It includes bits from the rumored real ending.

Act I:
Title Card in Outer Space
Gonzo Dream Noah’s Ark Sequence
Opening Musical Number (but an original song)
Breakfast Scene (but more crazy Muppety)
Clips of various Muppets jobs, but Gonzo hasn’t found his place.
2nd Musical Number (Gonzo:“I’m Going to Go Back There Someday”)
First Alien Contact during a “Pigs in Space” Convention!

Act II:
Covnet Introduction
[thicken up the plot here]
Gonzo is captured (Lab Rats etc)
Muppet Labs’ gadget checklist
3rd Musical Number (led by Floyd, Electric Mayhem sings protest anthem)
Cut with The Muppet gang bus montage to save Gonzo
Antics ensue.

Act III:
Alien Landing! Gonzo gets beamed aboard.
4th Musical Number with Aliens (Gonzo tribute)
We see their planet where Gonzo is king!
Aliens reveal they are mask-wearing, bug-faced fans receiving TMS signals.
Gonzo thanks them and returns to his friends
5th Closing Musical Number & Party (roll credits)


I'm sure Segel knows the successful Muppet formula is songs and showmanship tempered with nothing working out as planned.

Here's an interesting photo I just found on Muppet Wiki!

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101111052238/muppet/images/8/80/Filming_in_LA_Nov_2010.jpg

Kind of funny how they added an extra "t" in Muppets.

The idea of a comic book/geek type convention in a Muppet movie seems so fitting...however, I'm not sure we ever saw references to the Muppets as we know them, so references to Pigs In Space in a Muppet movie before now wouldn't have been used.

And see, this to me has to be the most exciting part of what we are hearing with "Muppets 2011": The idea that the Muppets in the film are the Muppets *we* know. They arent playing other characters from a book. They aren't playing re-imagined/reinvented/rebooted versions or origins of themselves(ie: the first three muppet films) Someone called it "meta", and I can just imagine the possibilities. Seriously, I get goosebumps thinking of all the possibilities. Like Walter bringing up the Muppet Show, past Muppet films, or even *gasp* criticizing past Muppet work(with Kermit giving a "sheesh" face)

I would LOVE to hear what you, Drtooth, Luke, DWMckim, and everyone else could envision using this premise...we really could have a scene where the Muppets are autographing at a comic or geek convention! Imagine Link mugging it up for the camera. We could have Piggy interviewed on a talk show, spoofing how shes always asked about her status with Kermit.

Ha, now we have an official working title: "Muppetts" ^__^

Seriously, it's one thing to hear Segal glow about the film, to read an article in EW...its entirely ANOTHER thing to see a snapshot of a physical legal shooting permit notice in Los Angeles.

For those that say "I'll believe it when I see it"...(now I just cant wait for the first grainy fuzzy pictures and shaky youtube videos from passerbys! Hello AICN?)

The idea that "Space" was in the title of a Muppet film and no Muppets actually went to space (the cosmic fish dream doesn't count) or reference Pigs in Space was a big let down. I love the convention idea and maybe a little Galaxy Quest style plot would have better framed the picture.

I really do think Disney intends on labeling this film merely "The Muppets" and I'm okay with that.

Absolutely!

I dont know if you ever looked at the old 1998 archives on the Delphi forum, but I recall intensive debates on here(err, the old forum) in 98 and 99' regarding the whole muppets from space versus Muppets IN space thing. I think it was around november or december of 1998 when some people associated with the film started briefly posting/going on the chat that we kind of got a bigger picture of what they were gunning for. I thought some of the film would take place in space before that

My issue with the title is the conflation with the brand, especially if it tanks in the public eye as someone quipped the other day on here. "Oh, I hate the Muppets"..."wait, do you mean in general or the new movie?" I definitely believe, just like with Star Wars and Indiana Jones, there needs to be an actual title