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Discussion in 'Classic Muppets' started by Puppet crazy, Jan 13, 2012.
No you're not, lol.
It would be funny to see Pepe on the beach or in Spain or something. Rizzo is now a main(ish) character, and he should have had a bigger part. In an interview, Nick Stoller said they wanted to have a bigger part for Rizzo and Bean Bunny, but couldn't fit it in due to time and the plot itself.
It's just that he's had a bigger part for a few films now and the older characters weren't getting enough exposure.
Well that's not entirely true unless the farthest back you go is to The Muppet Movie, becuase in TMTM, Rizzo has a pretty big part in it. Then they gave him even bigger parts in the next three films.
Well I mean in recent years, Rizzo has been up front a lot of the time. For me, the newer Muppets have largely had two decades to themselves and it's OK to give the classic characters a chance again.
It feels like they are purposely getting rid of characters like rowlf
I read about that, and wonder if there were more characters they wanted to give lines to. I am a little surprised they mentioned Bean Bunny but not Robin. Still, it's a little surprising they didn't use Rizzo more (such as in The Rainbow Connection and the scene at the network) and Bean at all (unless that puppet's no longer in good use).
I've been thinking, maybe it would have been awkward to have given Robin a big role here. He's a child character, and here it's mentioned that the Muppets hadn't been in the public eye in years. Maybe it'd be odd for him to have had any kind of big part wthout it being weird that he's not older. Then again, there is that gag at the beginning that Walter never aged or grew after a certain height.
Hmm...the Rizzo thing I'm not too concerned about at this stage. If he doesn't show up in the next movie I'd get considerably worried. But I do agree that there were plenty of characters without adding Rizzo/Pepe. (The use of Pepe here was STUNNING though! But I would have enjoyed to see the scene that Steve Carrel described where Pepe was discovered at a diner about to be served as a dish.) Adding just a small amount of Rizzo may have seemed more of an insult that not having him at all...just a thought. Also, he's often worked with Gonzo in the past and Gonzo wasn't really around much anyway. I would rather see Camilla given lines and scenes with him than Gonzo.
Yeah it was nice to see Gonzo and Camilla back together; it felt like that had been forgotten a bit.
Mmhmmm! In Muppets From Space when he goes to the spaceship without a second thought for his chicken friend(s)! Hehe. (Guess that's more proof that its an alternate universe Gonzo...)
There's so much about modern day Gonzo I respect, but feel disappointed by. The separation with Camilla was one of them. I'm glad we've gotten back to that ever since. And I find it strange that the one project to reintroduce that was MupOz. I like how Gonzo and Rizzo became close friends, but there was just no room for Camilla.
The problem was some of those characters weren't officially recast yet. This movie was the first theatrical film to have almost every classic character finally recast. David as Scooter, Bill as Rowlf, Steve as Link... The Electric Mayhem had diminished background roles in all three of the prior movies, with Floyd and Zoot having a small line in MTI... and you know what that means when Zoot actually has to talk a full line.
Newer characters were created to fill in gaps by old characters that were yet to be recast. This new movie, oddly enough, had older, more obscure characters replacing roles of newer characters... some that need to be recast unless Brian comes in to perform them.
Plus, let's face it... there's as many Muppets as there are Pokemon. It would be impossible to shove everyone in a movie and give them all a line. They crammed enough of them in there as it is.
Well disney is putting all the deleted scenes on the Muppets DVD !!
Rizzo has definitely had his share of time in the spotlight over the past 20 years or so. And I get that this movie is largely about TMS, and a re-emerging of the classic characters. I'm just not sure if that's a good reason for ignoring the poor rat altogether. I mean, he was there for much of TMS, unlike Pepe and Bobo, who were in the movie. He could have at least been bopping around in the background, like the old days. And what was up with having a different rat in the scene at the tv exec's office?
As for Gonzo, there were two things that bugged me specifically about his lack of screen time. First, the cold and stiff way he acted towards his friends at first was completely out-of-character. Which was the point. But we spent much more time on that than we did on his Gonzo-ish joy and enthusiasm at being back with the group. So a lot of what little screen time he did have seemed like it wasn't really Gonzo at all. And then, while the head bowling was VERY Gonzo-like, he wound up swinging a bowling ball for most of the telethon. So, he missed out on Rainbow Connection, and Kermit's big speech and the sad march out. I don't know how I would have done that differently, because I did like the Tex Richman/head bowling resolution. But I missed his presence very much when the whole group was together for big moments.
All of which is to say, I love Gonzo and Rizzo, and I missed them. This was a great movie. But now I want more. More!
You're right, Rizzo is still technically a classic character as well.
Yeah that was my issue with the movie overall. There just wasn't enough time devoted to the characters. That said my favorite part of the movie was Gonzo's "I've been wearing this under my suit for years!" I literally nearly cried because that's the Gonzo I grew up with, hehe.
I remeber you saying this in your blog, so true, I loved that scene!
It's all about deleted sequences for me. I'm sure a LOT more Gonzo was in the movie that got cut. On the one hand, I like how his disappearance was a huge payoff at the end... but it seems like a lot of Gonzo bits were gone from the final edited project. I don't begrudge Pepe, Rizzo or Robin, but it seems more Gonzo should have been in the movie.
The one other thing I think the movie really needed? Some end of credits gag. I loved that sequence in the Winnie the Pooh movie with the Backson that came when everyone else BUT me left the theater. I kinda wish Sweetums popping out of the screen and saying something or Animal saying "GO HOME! GO HOME!" or even a quick bit with Statler and Waldorf would have been a nice ending note to the film.
Aw thanks! Yeah that's why I changed the title of the entry to "UPDATED" because I wanted to get that Gonzo moment in there, lol.
Here are my improvements, they are niggles. I loved the movie, but hey, everyone's a critic...
- Pigs In Space and/or Vets Hospital sketch
- Walter's whistling comes out of nowhere and doesn't make for such a satisfying climax. It either needed to be introduced as a talent of his earlier or be something else altogether
- more Gonzo
- The character of Mary was underwritten and do we really care about her and Gary's dumb anniversary? No, more dancing pigs and chickens please.
- Fozzie's voice could have been better, Eric is great with Piggy though
- the "maniacal laugh" joke didn't work
- the cameos should have been funnier and more A-list
- the audience in the Muppet Theater should have been made up of Muppets (like in the Muppet Show), not humans
- was it just me or do the Muppets seem too sinister in the "Smells Like Teen Spirit" number? It kinda seems like they are going to actually kill Jack Black for a moment
- I thought the Moopets were too dark in tone. It would have been more Muppety for them just to be frustrated B-list performers
-Tex's rap is totally unnecessary and not that funny
- New "Electric Mayhem" song instead of "We Built This City"
Gonzo is awesome! They should do more stuff for him!
i personally feel they should have increased the running time to 72 days...with an intermission of course! Now, that may sound like a random amount of time BUT I have precisely calculated exactly the amount of screentime I would like to see all the characters to have and that is the exact length I would have liked to see*
*This was rounded up, the running time should have been 71 days, 18 hours and 27mins!
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