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When Kermit Met Piggy...

Discussion in 'Classic Muppets' started by Speed Tracer, Jun 25, 2007.

  1. Speed Tracer

    Speed Tracer Well-Known Member

    I imagine that we've had a thread about this before, but perhaps not. I'm sure someone will tell me.

    Recently I've been thinking about how The Muppet Movie and The Great Muppet Caper both have different origins for Kermit and Piggy's relationship. I've gotten a headache from pondering this a bit too much, but I'm okay with that.

    The headache comes from the fact that I very much prefer when they meet in The Great Muppet Caper as opposed to The Muppet Movie. My reason for this is because it's much further developed in the former than in the latter - their relationship is given room to grow, and there are also many great moments between the two that begin to form the stepping stones of their romance, whereas with The Muppet Movie, it's like, boom, they're in love. I mean, not exactly, but still.

    Anyway, when telling this to my dad, he told me that while I make a good point, I also have to remember that The Great Muppet Movie is technically a movie within a movie, and thus Kermit and Piggy didn't really meet in The Great Muppet Caper, and further thus that you can't consider The Great Muppet Caper to be an accurate origin story for the two. This is where my head started to hurt. I said that he was right but that I still stand by my theory. He told me I was wrong, and then I pretended to hear somebody stealing his car. He said he didn't hear anything and I called him a liar and ran off.

    Does any of this make any sense at all?


    I guess what this thread is really all about is whether or not you prefer Kermit and Piggy's meeting for the first time better in The Muppet Movie or The Great Muppet Caper.
  2. BeakerSqueedom

    BeakerSqueedom Well-Known Member

    I've been having headaches of that too. However, if you see in certain magazines they always refer to them as a couple. Like I could show you some of them if you'd like. :D
  3. Mistersuperstar

    Mistersuperstar Well-Known Member

    Kermit has been quoted as saying: "Piggy and I have a very professional relationship. I'm professional and she thinks we have a relationship."

    Also, at the beginning of The Muppet Movie, Robin asks his uncle Kermit: "Is this how the Muppets really got started?" to which Kermit replies "Well, it's sort of approximately how it happened."

    I think The Muppet Movie can be seen as the story behind how the Muppets supposedly met and became the TV and movie stars they are now. The Great Muppet Caper sees the Muppet gang playing roles rather than themselves. Fozzie and Kermit are not really crack investigative reporters, nor is Gonzo their photographer.

    Also, don't forget, if you take The Muppets Take Manhattan in to consideration, all the Muppet gang went to college and graduated together! Yet another back story to how they all met...

    Now my head hurts too.
  4. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    It's complicated. I know there are people at the forum who are experts at piecing together the various histories...in order to form one sweeping story. I'm not great at that, but I do have a few theories on how the relationship develops through the three original movies.

    The Muppet Movie, as we know, was sort of approximately how it happened. At some point, Kermit was going to Hollywood and picked up a whole gang of friends (bears and chickens and things) who believed in his dream. One of those was Miss Piggy, and I believe they fell in love...much more slowly than is shown in TMM. Instead, they came to Hollywood, met Lord Lew Grade, and began The Muppet Show. There, Miss Piggy had a huge crush on Kermit, who was reluctant to return the favor...although he, obviously, had feelings for her also.

    By the time they made The Muppet Movie, Kermit was openly expressing his love for Piggy (see the Camera Tests from TMM, offscreen chemistry). And so when they met, within the movie, they seemed to be deeply in love from the start, because that was where they were at in real life.

    Again, in the Great Muppet Caper, Kermit was beginning to truly realize how very much in love he was with Miss Piggy. The movie, with a different story-line, parallels the growth of their relationship throughout the Muppet Show era. Notice how amazing they are together when they argue by the duck-pond.

    And then...MTM! The Muppet Take Manhattan. It's an invented storyline, but again, it's based on some of their previous experience. Don't think they walked into Hollywood and became stars right away...I'd imagine they had some of that "Don't Take No For An Answer" going on from the start. And the movie also was a build-up to an onscreen capturisation of the moment everyone had been waiting for...the Wedding of the Year. They had to work it into a movie, as it happened within the real-world of Miss Piggy and Kermit the Frog.

    Then there is a big break between the movies...filled in with a special, the Muppet's 30 Years. At this celebration, Piggy and Kermit are very comfortable with their relationship, and there is no more denial on Kermit's part.

    Same goes for MCC, and MTI.

    And then we come to the Muppet's Tonight era, and Muppet's From Space when there is a sudden coldness between the frog and the pig...We're never told why.

    Moving on to VMC, their love seems to be growing again, bringing them back together as Kermit realizes how much he (and Piggy) would be missing if they were not together. When Kermit sees the Alternate Universe Piggy in that movie...there's an eye-glint, and they are amazingly in love there.

    So...*ahem*...to answer your question, I think their meeting was similar to TMM, but only approximately.
  5. Mistersuperstar

    Mistersuperstar Well-Known Member

    I am not convinced that there is any major love for Piggy on Kermit's side. I think there is a lot of admiration but I think the "true love" is unrequited.

    He does show concern or affection towards her on several occasions, in A Muppet Family Christmas he is clearly concerned for Piggy's safety when she is missing in the blizzard. In The Muppet Movie he is obviously upset when Piggy walks out on him.

    I'm not sure Kermit has never really made any kind of romantic move on the pig tho.
  6. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    I think as far as Jim was concerned, Kermit did love Piggy, but he was shy. Watch this, Jim and Frank improvising (and laughing! Listen carefully!) on camera while filming the Muppet Movie.
  7. Mistersuperstar

    Mistersuperstar Well-Known Member

    That's on the US pre-Disney The Muppet Movie DVD. A great extra feature. :) Pity they didn't include it on the anniversary Disney release.
    It sounds a little like Kermit is making fun at Piggy. "I don't think I've ever seen a pig that looked quite like that before... you got that long hair and your eyes are quite outstanding" Maybe it is even Jim making a little inside joke at the way Piggy looks. :mad: Either way, gotta love Jim and Frank's improv!
  8. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    Hmm...I guess you could say it that way...Except that would make Kermit seem quite cruel, to play with her emotions that way...I can't quite imagine that Kermit would be that cruel?
  9. Mistersuperstar

    Mistersuperstar Well-Known Member

    Seeing as that clip is a test shoot and not really an official part of the Kermit & Piggy story, we probably shouldn't worry about it too much. I have heard that the Muppet performers could be quite vulgar with the characters behind the scenes too. :p Maybe we could see it as how Kermit & Piggy really are behind the scenes and the whole Kermit & Piggy romance is just part of their act. Just as Fozzie isn't really a failed comedian, he might be a stock broker. :o
  10. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    Oh my gosh....Fozzie as a stock broker...that's the funniest image I've seen all day. *giggles*
  11. Mistersuperstar

    Mistersuperstar Well-Known Member

    That new Muppet series they are doing is supposed to be based on what the Muppets get up to back stage. Maybe we will find out more about the frog and the pig's real relationship from that! Is it really all just for the cameras? :concern:
  12. Mistersuperstar

    Mistersuperstar Well-Known Member

    There was an old joke about a bear market that I nearly stooped to there. :o
  13. Barry Lee

    Barry Lee Well-Known Member

    Yeah its sort of ironic about how all three of the first films are about the characters meeting each other or becoming stars. The Muppet Movie, I believe is an elaborate fabrication of how they might have meet, like MisterSuperStar said. Then GMC, is basically just them playing rolls, they are themselves but they are other people as well. Then in MTM, is basically just them wanting to become famous, which is basically just TMM with the muppets allready meeting and they just want to go to New York City to become Broadway stars.

    Also, I love how a lot of fans believe that Kermit and Miss Piggy are married. They aren't, it was a musical, even though Rowlf was supposed to be the "Singing Preacher." I still dont believe they are married, just because Piggy hired a reall preacher. Remember, she also did this in the Marrisa Berenson episode of TMS[Season 3.]

    I dont believe Kermit and Piggy are a couple, I think Miss Piggy believes and says they are a couple, but Kermit is just skeptical about the whole situation and just thinks that they are friends, Miss Piggy wants their friendship to be with well, benefits. Also, in MCC, they are 'married' with figs, or progs. BUT, that was just an adaption, not in the whole Muppet Universe, so yeah, I dont believe they are in a relationship what so ever. I think Miss Piggy believes they are, Kermit is just playing hard to get. He also may just be interested in Miss Mousey though, [ahem.]

    Oh, and there might be skeptics that the relationship is just an act in front of cameras, I highly doubt it, because Kermit insults Piggy wayyyy to much more, he should give the Pig respect if they are having a secret behind the scenes relationship. But I do think the Frog needs a girl/pig/frog/whatever.

    [geez that was way to intellectual for my muppety geekiness] :sympathy:
  14. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    You think the Frog needs a girl other than Piggy? I can see Kermit playing hard to get with Piggy, but maybe because he is insecure about his feelings for her and doesn't want to commit, while Piggy is a pig and needs commitment.
  15. Mistersuperstar

    Mistersuperstar Well-Known Member

    We never actually find out whether the musical "marriage" in The Muppets Take Manhattan turns out to be real or not. Kermit whispers quite concerned to Piggy at the alter "I thought Gonzo was gonna play the Minister" and Piggy giggles nervously and turns her head away from him.
    Hey Beau, do pigs usually need commitment then? :p
  16. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    Oooh yeah.
  17. Barry Lee

    Barry Lee Well-Known Member

    Mhhmm, woops I forgot about Gonzo being the preacher not Rowlf... :o Its early for me sorry. Oh, and I also do think Rowlf needs a lady, especially sinces he's pretty cranky about how he isn't the star of the show, ever since he got off of the Jimmy Dean Show. But then again you know how those female dogs are...
  18. Speed Tracer

    Speed Tracer Well-Known Member

    I'm thrilled with this thread. We should all write a book.
  19. Barry Lee

    Barry Lee Well-Known Member


    "The Kermit & Miss Piggy Chronicles."


    "How Frog Meet Swine"


    "One Swine Flew Over the Lilypad"


    "To Love a Singing Frog."


    "Pigs are from the Barn and Frogs are from the Swamp"

    or just

    "The Kermit & Miss Piggy Story"
  20. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    Ha! I like "One Pig Flew Over the Lillypad." Second only to, "Pigs are from Venus, Frogs are from Mars," which is a book I can totally see being sold by The Muppets, a book on romance written by Piggy and Kermit, and addressing questions such as:

    "How do you win the heart of a God?"
    Piggy: "The kissy-kissies, the huggy-huggies."
    Kermit: "Er...engage him or her in a high-stakes game of connect four?"

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