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Why are recent Muppets tries all flops?

Discussion in 'Muppet Headlines' started by Billy R. Hinshaw, Jun 5, 2005.

  1. Why do you think?

    I have two reasons:
    1. They don't SING anymore! If they did, they'd be a lot more popular. I'm sure that there is another Joe Raposo or Jeff Moss somewhere out there. The Henson company just isn't trying hard enough to find them. Music played so well a huge, important part in the old movies, and if they can't put music into the picture anymore, then they should just stop trying. "Muppets From Space" was okay because it complied with my second point below, but it was a half-flop because of NO SINGING! And what do those dumb music producers do? They just steal other hits, put it into the movie, compose a bunch of ELEVATOR music to use as the score, and when there's finally a new recording of Dave Goelz as Gonzo singing a remake of "I'm Going Back There Someday," it doesn't even appear in the movie whatsoever!!"
    2. The main characters of the Muppet movies are not MUPPETS anymore! Why was "The Muppet movie" so good and appreciated? Because Kermit the Frog looking for stardom in Hollywood was the main concept, and Kermit was (and still is) a MUPPET! Why was "Great Muppet Caper" a great movie? The main characters were Kermit, Fozzie, and Gonzo, and though they weren't playing themselves necessarily, they were still MUPPETS! Why was the "Muppets Take Manhattan" so great? The main plot was about KERMIT's struggles, KERMIT's feelings, KERMIT's failures, and he was a MUPPET!! This is the main reason that Muppet movies these days are so bland: because it's not about the MUPPETS anymore; it's about humans! "Muppets from Space" is an exception, since it was about Gonzo, but the other movies were not so well loved because the MUPPETs were not the subject. IN a MUPPET movie, a HUMAN is not supposed to steal the show!
    A MUPPET is!!! And if those ABC writers and producers disagree with my opinion whatsoever because of this or that, they can KISS MY HAIRY ***.

    That right there is my opinion of why the Muppets' late work SUCKS!!!

    But that's just my opinion.

    What do you think?
  2. That Announcer

    That Announcer Well-Known Member

    They sang several songs in MWoO. I too despised the music in MFS, but they did sing in MWoO. Oh, and in the (admittedly bad) KSY.
  3. DanDanStrawberry

    DanDanStrawberry Well-Known Member

    OK. Not to be a fly in the ointment, but I loved the [all-be-it covered] music in MFS. And, a mon avis, Everyone Matters is one of the best muppet songs to date. So that's me done with.
  4. MWoO

    MWoO Well-Known Member

    AVMMC was great. I would not call it a flop. I owuld say it was the best new production, especialy cosidering it was the first time I heard Eric doing Frank's characters. I watch it just to hear his Fozzie and Piggy and to see Scooter back after awahile. Having Fozzie and Piggy interacting with Kermit and Scooter being a big part of the theater action really brought me back to TMS days. While it was not "the same" it was darn close and good.

    So they aren't all flops. Going back to the theater with a "real" story makes for a good movie.
  5. dwayne1115

    dwayne1115 Well-Known Member

    I have to aggre i dont think AVMMXM was a very good movie becaues the muppets where home and themselfs. Plus they had a hard time and Kirmit lost his cool and lost all hope and everything he almost quit!!!! Kermit seemed more reall in that movie sence TMM or TMTM where they aculy had some drama in what they did. Thats where i think the muppets have lost there magic, not only are they funny yes they are but they have more then comody going for them. Here is a list of some great muppet moments that show them with other emotinns other then educating or making people laugh that where great.

    1. The Muppets Celebreat Jim Henson: This was such a wonderfull show, when they all found out Jim was gone, and you could really almost hear Gonzo start to cry reading the letter from the child.

    2. Big Bird learning about Mr. Hopers Death: This was a very very emotional time for all espcaly when Big Bird didnt realize Mr. Hopper was comming back.

    3. The Weeding Secne in MTM : Even though it was still a play you could really see that Kermit loved Piggiy and the same for Piggiy. They both fought hard to be together and that was really what the whole thing was about

    4. Kermit sinnging "It's Not easy Being Green" A wonderfull song that is full of deep emotion.

    5. Folow that Bird: This movie makes me cry everytime i watch it. To really think that Big Bird would leave SS forever is a very sadding thought. The songs in this are so wonderfull and heart warming.

    This is just a few and i really think that if the muppets want to do better they need not just be funny but show other emotiions to.
  6. GregJ

    GregJ Member

    Muppet Flops..

    The Muppets need to STOP doing their versions of other peoples' films. Whenever I see anyone doing a parody I think, 'Okay they're not smart enough to come up with a premise of their own, so they're going to rip off someone else's idea.'

    The Muppets need to STOP trying to be 'edgy.' It isn't apropriate for any muppet to make jokes about nipples. It just comes across as vulgar & parents watching with their kids certainly won't approve, & will probably think twice before letting their kids watch Muppets in the future. Muppets are NOT vulgar or edgy, they're sweet, funny & goofy.

    The Muppets need to start SINGING & DANCING again.

    Cut back on all the characters: Center the stories around Kermit, Piggy, Fozzie & Gonzo. I know everyone loves Pepe, so have him jump in with a funny comment now & then. But Kermit should always play the lead. I didn't care for MFS just because Kermit took a back seat to Gonzo. Gonzo is funniest when he jumps in ocassionally & says something bizarre (but not vulgar).

    Get some NEW WRITERS. I thought the script for MFS was absolutely terrible, poorly structured, nothing but parodies of this movie & that movie, UGH.
  7. Beauregard

    Beauregard Well-Known Member

    Sorry, allow me to dissagree. Don't get new writers whatever you do. Get the OLD writer!

    And, you are correct, it's about Singing, and Dancing, and Making People Happy!
  8. GregJ

    GregJ Member

    Well, when I say new writers I really don't mean NEW writers. I mean people other than the ones who wrote MFS.
  9. OLD writers for SONGS would be top priority if I were to direct a Muppet production, but that would be a hard thing to do because some of the old writers are either 2 things:
    1. They're DEAD (vis-a-vis Raposo and Moss, RIP)
    2. Like Frank Oz, they just don't want to.

    I also want to admit my mistake, noting that there was some singing in "The Muppet's Wizard of Oz", but it was mostly out of taste for a Muppet movie because the star stole the spotlight.

    Another thing about the Muppets is: their movies, whether feature or television, should be okay for a 2-year-old to watch. My two-year-old brother and I were watching "The Muppets Wizard of Oz", and when the scene with Oz came on, he became scared, and started to cry. Even at the spaceship scene from "Muppets From Space" once, he got scared. So, seeing that on TV, I did the only sensible thing to do: put in "Muppets Take Manhattan", because I knew that he wouldn't get scared from anything in that movie.
  10. BEAR

    BEAR Well-Known Member

    You are contradicting yourself a little which made me confused in your first paragraph. I am sorry. Just read your first line. You don't think it was a good film because they were playing themselves? Also, Big Bird realizes that Mr. H. is NOT coming back. Sorry to be picky but I soo confused. :o
  11. BEAR

    BEAR Well-Known Member

    I don't think Kermit completely took a backseat. It was just a film that explains what we have all been trying to figure out for over 30 years or however long they have been around. Kermit took a little more of a supporting role to Gonzo for once and that's okay. He was still there in the role he has always been and that is the peacemaker, the voice of reason, the leader of the group. He is the one who sat at the end of the breakfast table! And he led the group to go and save Gonzo. There is nothing wrong with that. I would however agree that I dearly miss having original Muppet music.
  12. Frogpuppeteer

    Frogpuppeteer Well-Known Member

    agreeing with Bear,
    MFS was the story of Gonzo kermit wasnt meant to be the lead,and if you look back he wasnt the lead really in MCC or MTI he was a main character but wasnt the main one. and like many of you are saying i agree with the singing and dancing i miss it its what made the muppets in the other films maybe we should just all storm the muppet studios and write songs and stories for them hopefully everyone will be happy then :)
  13. That Announcer

    That Announcer Well-Known Member

    They make it their own well enough, don't they? A parody is NOT a rip off, so long as it's done right. Weird Al knows how to do it right, and so do the Muppets.

    Vulgar, no. Edgy? ALWAYS. The Muppets have been edgy from the very beginning of TMS. There were sexual references in that show- the Raquel Welch episode, for example. The Muppets are and were not 'just for kids.' I'm not so sure the "sweet, funny & goofy" line comes off for a few of them- say, oh, Janice, Animal, Piggy, Pepe, Crazy Harry...

    I'll reiterate what I've always said: there is NO CORE MUPPET GROUP. Kermit is always hilarious, but then again, so is Scooter. Let a different Muppet take the lead. Or have many leads. Or have NO lead, and a bunch of small roles. That'd work. Centering the Muppet films around four Muppets would make something other than a Muppets film. Rather than a Muppets film, we'd have a Kermit, Piggy, Fozzie & Gonzo film. It wouldn't work.

    Now here's where I agree with you some. I think that different writers should do the next film, but I think it should be Craig Shemin, Kirk Thatcher & Jim Lewis. Kirk has proved himself able and willing to write for the Muppets with MT and MTI, and Shemin & Lewis wrote the Muppet Show Live deal. I say let them write.
  14. GregJ

    GregJ Member

    There's no core Muppet group? Look back through all the films & tell me who the stories centered around: Kermit, Piggy, Fozzie, Gonzo.

    I wouldn't extole the virtues of the writing on 'Muppets Tonite,' that show was cancelled, after all.

    Parodies ARE rip-offs, plain & simple, no matter how well they're done. The nature of a parody is to do your own version of a PRE-EXISTING PIECE.

    The Muppets, up to now, are thought of by the general public as 'family entertainment,' keep making vulgar jokes & that image will change, for the worse.
  15. mikebennidict

    mikebennidict Well-Known Member

    what exactly happened in the Raquel Welch episode?
  16. GregJ

    GregJ Member

    It was standard 'Muppet Show' fare. Raquel did a couple of songs, one was with Piggy (who didn't like Raquel AT ALL). At one point Raquel invited Fozzie up to her room, & he asked her if he could bring his mother along. That's about as 'edgy' as it got.
  17. HPDJ

    HPDJ Well-Known Member

    Singing must be brought back!
  18. That Announcer

    That Announcer Well-Known Member

    Regarding the Raquel episode: at the very beginning, Scooter comes into her dressing room. She's in there practising Shakespeare- says she wants to "change her image." Scooter says "Well, OK, we'll be supportive. No one on this show is gonna tell you to dress up in scanty outfits and do dances!"

    You then see (if memory serves me right) Crazy Harry, Teeth, Floyd and Fozzie stick their heads around a corner and go, "Oh please! Oh please!"
  19. beaker

    beaker Well-Known Member

    Heh, you never saw the Muppet's Land of Gorch Saturday Night Live sketches...I cant even hint what some of those skits were about:)
  20. That Announcer

    That Announcer Well-Known Member

    "It's a fan letter to.... Lily Tomlin!"

    That's about the safest we can get without... um... "dirtying things up", so to speak, right, Cory? :o

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